Ok, I have read all the posts on these two engines I could find...and they basically have me thoroughly confused. Tom always emphasizes how sensitive the ultimate is to weight, but yet has a couple posts that say the evo isn't 'that' much heavier then the DA. I know the evo will require re-arrangement of batteries to balance, but that isn't a big deal (making a hatch further back to put the batteries under the pilot isn't really that big of a deal). I want to the plane to be something I will enjoy flying. I can fly 3d, I do it all the time with my fun-flies, but this will me biggest and most costly plane to date (and also my first gasser), and I don't really see me hovering $1500 worth of wood off the deck...even though I could...just not worth the risk. I will probably do most 3d type flying up higher, and really play around with elevators and harier's (sp) lower since they aren't all that risky once locked in. I will also fly the plane through more traditional aerobatics more often then anything most likely, especially in the beginning. So...below is break down of what I found in my research:

DA-50:
Pros:
- Amazing customer support and reliability. (good for the first time gasser)
- Light weight
- Will 'Drop Into' the ultimate, the ultimate was designed for this engine.
Cons:
- Not as powerful as the evo.

Evo 58:
Pros:
- More power
Cons:
- uknown customer support (haven't seen much info on this)
- Weighs more
- Requires re-arranging configuration of ultimate setup to balance.

Both cost the same from what I have found.....so which one? Some say the da-50 pulls their ultimate around with authority and is plenty of power, others say they wish they had more power....so that is what is confusing me....Different stories from different people. I would rather stay with the da-50 if it is enough power, more because of product history, support, and reliability (plus I know I can easily find the standoffs, muflfer, and support for the engine). But I am scared I will be wanting more power after a few flights.

Planned setup for Ultimate:
WH Ultimate w/ Tom's hardware package.
Servos:
1 - HS-5955TG - Rudder
2 - HS-5945MG - Elevator
4 - HS 6635HB - Airlerons
2 standard servos for throttle/choke

Batteries:
3 - 2400mAh Li-On's plus regulators and 3 switches.

Engine:
DA-50R or Evo 58

Thanks!
kevin.

Here's a reference of how to do a pull-pull set up on the Ultimate with the Evolution 58:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3560214/tm.htm

I wouldn't use Karbonite gears on the ailerons, only metal gears.

This really comes down to what you want and which you like better, red or blue! IF you like red better buy one of them, if you prefer blue buy the other one.

How's that for no help?

Here's one more thing to think about. What else doyou plan to do with this engine? You may want to think about what else you like, and decide based on whether you will need more power or less weight in the next plane.

For example, if you are yearning for one of our Yaks (just as a size example) then the DA will be better, but if you're planning on something more like our Cap then the 58 would be more appropriate.

Or flip a coin.


TF

FYI: I went with those karbonite gear servos per recomendations from Tom in one of his posts(see link below) since they are only going on the airlerons... which aren't that big of a control surface. If they are not going to work someone speak up, because I don't need a servo failure here. Tom?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3293815

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3651901/tm.htm

DA-50 vs Evo 58

I have a pitts the same size as the Ultimate and they look to have the same amt of drag. It took 4 different engines before I was happy with the power and performance. The final engine was a 3W-70 twin and the plane's performance is excellent!!

I picked up a WH ultimate NIB from the secondary market $200 cheaper than from Tom. Based on my experience with the above mentioned pitts which is the same size, I am starting with a 3W-75. In doing a rough balance after the engine was installed, the plane will balance with the servos in the tail and the batteries under the pilot.

Perhaps this will help.

Elson

Damn!! And I was hoping to avoid placing the batteries under the pilot.[&o] Looks like I'll have to make a battery platform after all.

I put in a battery platform under the pilot with a 58 BUT I didnt put the rudder servo in the tail as I preferred a pull pull and it balances just fine. Got to be the easiest landing bipe yet, -1to 1/2 degree on the Top wing. Makes me look good! Wish my 33%Extra landed like it.

So AndyT says it lands easy with the 58, what about other flying issues?

And RC Bugman is using a 3w75. PLEASE let me know how that works out, it seems like a really great match.

TF

Well...I think I might end up with the 58...not totally sure yet though...thanks for the responses thus far...

As far as the servos, I guess I should return these and get 5945's...its frustrating to find conflicting information like that..and I bought these during the 20% off a servocity, now I miss out on that. I am still kind of suprised that these servos can't handle those ailerons on the ultimate...they aren't that big of a control surface, plus you got the work of 'roll' in the plane is split up betwee four control surfaces each with its own servo (as compared to other similar size planes that have only 2 ailerons, so the 'load' should be around 1/2, but whatever, I will return them)

What I said in that post was;

I stand by what I said, I used the 6635s in the Ultimate on ailerons and they worked fine. I see no reason not to use them if you already have them. But be aware that on a larger surface with vibration (like a large aileron) they have shown a tendency to break the gears.

TF

EVO58, anything is better than a DA, even a Fuji[8D]

I am sending those servos back. ServoCity says they will honor the 20% sale on the replacement servo's (what a great company), I would rather have something that will definetly work, then something that will have me worried. I did some looking around, and its sounding like its more the vibration from a gas engine that is an issue with karbonites then the 'size' of the control surface (although a larger surface magnifies the problem even more), which makes more sense.

Elson, I'm curious as to what the "secondary" market is. Tom sells these planes pretty close to "dirt cheap" as it is. How can someone undercut his price and stay in business?

Bobby

Tom, So far there are no issues with the 58 and Ulti....Its not fully dialed in yet. Roll rate is a blur, little bit of mixing is going to be needed.
Snaps rolls like a beast,pulls to the left on uplines , more mixing. Stalls straight forward. Flies real slow, lands real slow if you want to.
I flew the Ultimate and immediatley flew a GP Pitts with a 3.2 on it and they were suprisingly similar with just a bit of mushiness to the Pitts. Much faster response and a tendency to overotate on the Ultimate if you dont let go the sticks fast enough. (Im running 5945s all round except Rudder) Im happier with the way it flies than the Xtra LX and it flew great . Not done any real stressfull stuff yet due to weather

Tom,

I will be sure to let you know about the 3W-75 and the ultimate, but it will be several months because we have that white stuff on the ground. If I complete the plane early and git the itch, I do have skis for that size plane. I am also going to check out your servo recs. My experience with larger and heavier planes suggests that the recommended servos are overkill.

Secondary market: Somebody bought the plane, decided they didn't want it and sold it for a $200 loss.

Elson

Thanks Elson.

Bobby

You lucky so & so!

I'm bulding a Wild Hare Ultimate and have a DA-50 for it. Iv'e heard a lot about the DA-75 The 50 would go good with a smaller plane and I'll just wait for the DA-75.

Eh, that's why I decided to take advantage of the Christmas special. It's going to be my spring/summer project. Then I'll probably save up to buy a 35% Aerotech Yak. I figure since it's going to be a couple of years before I have a place I can fit something like that, could always get something that takes a couple years for me to build.