paulflys4fun

Hi, guys. I got a extra with a da50 in it. I am having a few issues though. If i pull a fairly tight turn the plane snaps off in the other direction. If i pull a very tight turn it is evil. It tends not to low speed stall, but the high speed stall is spoiling my fun. I have set the throws to the book but even redusing the elevator does not seem to help, unless i dail it down to fly like a trainer, which is not what i want.

Any ideas

Walt and Sage

flatspinjim

My Feedback: (3)

Reduce your elevator throws

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Or just plain heavy.

paulflys4fun

Its coming out at 20lbs, and i have reduced the elevator, but it rubbish like that and snaps on me if i add more. The c of g is at the front point of the instructions. If that is it just a heavey model i will be shocked. The da is a light motor and it onlt has two small battrey packs and the servo's as listed in the instructions, so should be normal weight

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Be shocked.

The plane is both heavy at 20 lbs. and if balanced at the forward c/g location is nose heavy. Combine the two with excessive elevator deflection and a snappy plane is assured. I'll bet it also lands fast and has a steep power off glide angle.

The original 28% Extra Special should have easily come it at 18-1/2 pounds or under with a DA. Even with a G-62 the plane would not weight 20 pounds. The latest version of the Extra should easily finish up at 17.

paulflys4fun

Yell yep i am shocked very! If i have only added a da 50 and a spectrum rx 8 servos and two 4.8 aa battreys how can it come out heavy? Surly this is a kit issue then as the model is an artf kit and only the stuff above added there is a problem for wildhare to look into? What would it have been like with a g64 and a smoke system. So i have bought a bad model i guess?

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Well, to be sure, SOMETHING'S going on. 20lbs is heavy.

Some questions though...because that setup seems pretty...well..it's different.

8 servos? For what? I can't see more than 7 in that airplane...2 aileron, 2 elevator, rudder, throttle, choke (Granted...I haven't built this airplane...so maybe it DOES call for more)

2 4.8 V batts??? You're running that whole radio system on a single 4 cell battery then??

Did you acquire this bird from Wildhare, or a third party? When was it acquired?

rctom

We never exported the Extra Special to the UK as we did not have a dealer there that long ago. I suspect this one may have been obtained through Norway, there was a company there who bought planes direct from my builder without my permission. That happened also in Spain and Australia/New Zealand.

20 lbs is very heavy, and how do you get 8 servos into the plane? With a DA-50 you would normally have 2 aileron, 2 elevator and 1 rudder servo plus throttle.

TF

paulflys4fun

Just double checked my set up Futaba S3305 servos all round, 2 on rudder, 2 on elevator, 2 for wing 1 throttle 1 on choke. 8in total, 2100 aa 4.8 on ignition and a 4,100 sud c 6 volts for the rx which is an Ar7100.

Thats it total nothing else in there.

Just put the wings on the scales 4lb 4 oz with wing tube. Just done the same with the fuzz it was 13lb 4oz so 17lb 8oz total dry weight. Sorry for the confussion. That is the full setup.

So is it still weight or the c of g to far forward. When i did pattern flying the symtoms would indecate rearward c of g.

paulflys4fun

Tom if i uploaded photos would u be able to tell if this was one of the rip offs then not a wild hare? I bought it as a new unstarted kit in the uk. The guy i bought it from said he had bought in three for him and club mates but one did not want it! I bought is about 2 years ago but only been messing with it now and then as i normally fly jets!

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

That clears up a bit, anyway.

Certainly, we can get information from Tom about the source of the airplane...and that may answer a few questions.

In the mean time, despite the more "appropriate" 17lb 8oz weight, you could still consider the following to knock a bit more out:

1) Can't imagine there's a need for 2 servos on that rudder. There's a great many inexpensive single servos that, I would think, would do the job fine on a pull-pull setup...or even mounted in the side of the fuse back to the rear. Some of the HD Power and HiTec offerings come to mind. Tom, please correct me if I'm wrong there. That alone would knock a few ounces out of the aiplane.

2) The batteries are costing you a fair amount of weight...especially, I would imagine, that 4100 6v pack. Consider a switch to a couple of lighter LiPols or A123's. Don't really see the necessity for the large capacity (especially on the radio)...I'd think you could get away with something in the 2500-3000mah range there.

Without getting a good look at the airplane, and going on a serious diet, just those changes alone would probably bring the dry weight under 17 lbs (or close to it), and could make a notable difference, imo.

paulflys4fun

Photo's if that helps?

rctom

I can tell you for certain that we did not sell that plane. We never sold 3 of them to anybody outside the USA. So even if it says Wild Hare on it we never actually sold it.

Why do you have two servos in the tail for rudder? My guess is you are tail heavy, 2 rudder servos in the tail with a DA-50 would certainly make it tail heavy.

Those batteries are a real drag. You can easily live on 1 A123 2300 mah pack for everything, saving probably a pound. 1 rudder servo saves about 3 ounces, you're going to be down closer to 16.5.

TF

paulflys4fun

Tom so your saying this is a copy then? The battrey lives just behind the c of g, all instuctions with it, said wildhare guess they could have benn copied to?

The c of g is 3 3/4 inch in from front leading edge at the tip, or 6 3/4" in at the root,is this corrert? The movment on the elevator is up and down 40mm. There is a slit up elevator trim for leval flight.

rctom

They bought the planes from my builder without my permission, used my color schemes and copied my manual.

TF

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

There were quite a few pirated "Wild Hare" models. It started with the 35% Giles, which seems to still have one or two popping up "new in the box" from time to time, most without instructions.

There's much you can do to reduce the weight of your Extra. It will fly much better for doing so. The first would be as Tom noted, removing one of the rudder servos and changing to a different flight battery. The plane is more than well driven at the rudder with a single 200 oz. in. metal geared servo. The choke servo I won't go into since so many prefer the "safety" aspect of having one. Move the c/g aft about 1/2" from where it is now. She'll handle a lot better and land slower with more control.

paulflys4fun

I will try moving the c of g back. It does fly well on very low rates. If you treat it as a patturn model, the problem is if the rates r turned up a little or if it is flown as it should be. It just keep high speed stalling.

Will give moving the c of g a try. If not then will get stripped out and scrapped. Its no fun like this, waste of a good motor

Walt and Sage

You might also check the latterial balance..A heavy wing can also can cause all sorts of problems..
Tom is RIGHT about using ONE A123... THE WAY TO GO FOR SURE...

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I'm going to bring something up here that should have come out a few posts back. You won't like it.

I've had two 28% Extra Specials, Three 28% Edge 540's, and two V-@ 28% Edge 504's. I've loaded a couple of them up to 21 pounds with smoke systens and a bunch of other useless stuff. I've never doubled up a rudder servo, and do that only infrequently on 35% planes. I've taken the time to experiment with c/g locations to determine how a plane flies best. The reason for that is because EVERY manufacturer provides an initial, or forward, C/G that let's anyone be able to fly the plane. It will not be the best c/g location, but it will be a safe one.

How did I learn that? From experience. That's something that you don't have a lot of yet, as indicated by some of what you've said in your posts, AND the way you've set up that plane. Don't blame the plane for what you don't know. That goes for any manufacturers' kits. If that is a true pirated W/H Extra, then it will fly great at 20 and 21 pounds. It won't fly like a foamie. It can't because it's been loaded up to be a brick. But it won't be snappy if the plane is set up correctly and the correct control inputs are used when it's flown. It will need to be flown faster for the available wing area to generate the extra lift for the extra weight, but a knowledgable flyer would know that. That flyer would also know that the plane would land faster because of that weight, and stall at a higher speed. They would understand the relationship of elevator/airspeed/stall speed with a forward c/g and plan for a snap if the plane got too slow or exceeded it's critical angle of attack. They would understand that a plane in true balance is easier to fly than a nose heavy one and that it will land slower and softer.

What I'm seeing more of here is a waste of a good plane and engine on an inexperienced flyer. You can change that by learning a little bit more.