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AMA Acknowledges 400 foot AGL Limit in Class G

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AMA Acknowledges 400 foot AGL Limit in Class G

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Old 06-10-2019, 01:08 PM
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franklin_m
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Default AMA Acknowledges 400 foot AGL Limit in Class G

In a AMA Government Affairs blog post dated 6 June 2019, the AMA acknowledges that the current limit for limited recreational sUAS operations in class G airspace is indeed 400 feet above ground level:

"Flying sites and individuals flying in uncontrolled airspace (Class G) can continue to fly up to 400 AGL ... (empahsis added)"

AMA goes on to imply that "in the coming weeks" they will pursue a waiver for flights above 400 AGL in class G.

http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2019/06/06/faa-begins-letter-of-agreement-process/

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Old 06-10-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
In a AMA Government Affairs blog post dated 6 June 2019, the AMA acknowledges that the current limit for limited recreational sUAS operations in class G airspace is indeed 400 feet above ground level:

"Flying sites and individuals flying in uncontrolled airspace (Class G) can continue to fly up to 400 AGL ... (empahsis added)"

AMA goes on to imply that "in the coming weeks" they will pursue a waiver for flights above 400 AGL in class G.

FAA Begins Letter of Agreement Process | AMA Government Relations Blog
Now the question is:
Do we trust the AMA to actually tell us the truth in this? They have at least "bent" the truth on many occasions over the past few years over their dealings with the FAA
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Now the question is:
Do we trust the AMA to actually tell us the truth in this? They have at least "bent" the truth on many occasions over the past few years over their dealings with the FAA
What's the old phrase? It takes a thousand "Atta Boys" to over come one "Oh Sh*@#".

IMHO the AMA has a long way to go to regain their credibility. Ditto for those who can't seem to do anything other than attack Franklin. I'd really like to see a reasoned argument against what Franklin posts but all the faithful seem capable of doing is name calling, accusations of this and that and a host of other BS that passes for "Proper" forum posts.

Gang attacks is supposed to be against the rules. But has any such attack against Franklin ever been shut down? Of course, someone will suggest they don't happen.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:52 AM
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As many times as I`ve flown an R/C plane, I have no idea what 400 ft. looks like. I may be violating the law every time I fly. I`ll have to look into some kind of altimeter gizmo to put in my plane. On the other hand, I wonder if Uncle Sam is violating any laws when they buzz my house occasionally with what looks like a Army C130. Probably not, but sometimes it sounds like they`re gonna take the roof off.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Now the question is:
Do we trust the AMA to actually tell us the truth in this? They have at least "bent" the truth on many occasions over the past few years over their dealings with the FAA
They've changed that blog post twice in the last 24 hours. All references to class G airspace have been removed.

Anyone care to guess why they don't say definitively whether AMA members can or cannot fly above 400 AGL in class G?
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer View Post
As many times as I`ve flown an R/C plane, I have no idea what 400 ft. looks like. I may be violating the law every time I fly. I`ll have to look into some kind of altimeter gizmo to put in my plane. On the other hand, I wonder if Uncle Sam is violating any laws when they buzz my house occasionally with what looks like a Army C130. Probably not, but sometimes it sounds like they`re gonna take the roof off.
If you cannot tell 400 ft unless they have a device to measure the altitude of your model I doubt they could actually tell if you were 50 or 100 ft over the 400 ft limit especially if you were out a ways from the field. Even if you were way up there I imagine any charge would have to specify how high you actually were. Like speeding it doesn't work stating he was speeding your honor, I don't know exactly how fast but he was speeding. They might charge you with something else but altitude strikes me the same as speeding. I would think it would have to be specific.

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Old 06-11-2019, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
They've changed that blog post twice in the last 24 hours. All references to class G airspace have been removed.

Anyone care to guess why they don't say definitively whether AMA members can or cannot fly above 400 AGL in class G?
Gee if the information needs to be updated and is not correct then the prudent thing to do is remove it. 24 hours to make sure the info that will be posted is correct is in fact pretty darn reasonable.

Boy you really are stretching and grasping at straws if this is the best you can do to prop up your conspiracy theories. No wonder they tend to ignore you. I can see it now "You reply to him." "No I did last time". "Lets get Mikey to do it" "Naw lets give it to the ground crew" LOL

You've probably made it to the level of office entertainment and your emails a passed around seeing who's turn it is to ignore you LOL

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Old 06-11-2019, 11:57 AM
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Actually the AMA removed the correct information.

And replaced it with more propaganda!
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Gee if the information needs to be updated and is not correct then the prudent thing to do is remove it. 24 hours to make sure the info that will be posted is correct is in fact pretty darn reasonable.

Boy you really are stretching and grasping at straws if this is the best you can do to prop up your conspiracy theories. No wonder they tend to ignore you. I can see it now "You reply to him." "No I did last time". "Lets get Mikey to do it" "Naw lets give it to the ground crew" LOL

You've probably made it to the level of office entertainment and your emails a passed around seeing who's turn it is to ignore you LOL
I could care less whether they pass my emails around or draw straws for who gets to answer. The fact that they made an OFFICIAL post and had to make substantive corrections to it twice in less than 24 hours shows they don't do their staff work very well. Very unprofessional and screams "rookie." Unfortunately, they're "rookies" getting paid with our membership dollars.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I could care less whether they pass my emails around or draw straws for who gets to answer. The fact that they made an OFFICIAL post and had to make substantive corrections to it twice in less than 24 hours shows they don't do their staff work very well. Very unprofessional and screams "rookie." Unfortunately, they're "rookies" getting paid with our membership dollars.
Can you say 1-800-WHAA Your old news not one of them cares what you think. To busy running the day to day business for the majority of the members who seem satisfied with the way things are being handled. No time to waste on a few malcontents. Dead air so to speak. How long you been bitxxing and how much longer is it going to carry on with the same results. Years most likely YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You pay your dues to belong and once paid the money is no longer yours LOL!!!!!! You don't get a rebate/refund and you certainly don't get to designate how your personal dues are going to be used.

Dennis

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Old 06-11-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Can you say 1-800-WHAA Your old news not one of them cares what you think. To busy running the day to day business for the majority of the members who seem satisfied with the way things are being handled. No time to waste on a few malcontents. Dead air so to speak. How long you been bitxxing and how much longer is it going to carry on with the same results. Years most likely YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You pay your dues to belong and once paid the money is no longer yours LOL!!!!!! You don't get a rebate/refund and you certainly don't get to designate how your personal dues are going to be used.

Dennis
With the fields being closed, AMA struggling to get traction on the "carve outs" that many members expect, it's more than just me that are unhappy with them. As for the money thing, in case you haven't noticed, and clearly you haven't, they don't have nearly as much of it right now. There's been extensive discussions about the need to save money. So spending money on people to do a job that is being done poorly seems to be germane. Given that people are one of their major expenses, even more so.

As for results, I beg to differ. First, I got the FAA to go on record saying that they did not view that 336 required membership. AMA continued to "disagree," so I worked with staffers to get the "AND" in the law changed to an "OR." That makes it impossible now for AMA to imply that membership is required, so that's a pretty big success. Now I'm working to ensure that special privileges and access to government sites (mil bases, parks, etc.) are available to any taxpayer .... since after all the taxpayers are paying for them. I've had one notable success there, and I'm working others right now. And now, I'm working to determine whether this 400 foot restriction applies equally to CBO members and general citizens. I expect that will be successful as well.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
With the fields being closed, AMA struggling to get traction on the "carve outs" that many members expect, it's more than just me that are unhappy with them. As for the money thing, in case you haven't noticed, and clearly you haven't, they don't have nearly as much of it right now. There's been extensive discussions about the need to save money. So spending money on people to do a job that is being done poorly seems to be germane. Given that people are one of their major expenses, even more so.

As for results, I beg to differ. First, I got the FAA to go on record saying that they did not view that 336 required membership. AMA continued to "disagree," so I worked with staffers to get the "AND" in the law changed to an "OR." That makes it impossible now for AMA to imply that membership is required, so that's a pretty big success. Now I'm working to ensure that special privileges and access to government sites (mil bases, parks, etc.) are available to any taxpayer .... since after all the taxpayers are paying for them. I've had one notable success there, and I'm working others right now. And now, I'm working to determine whether this 400 foot restriction applies equally to CBO members and general citizens. I expect that will be successful as well.
Other than your say so I haven't seen anything in writing that credits you personally with any of this. Have to find that big Mickey Mouse hand and send it to ya so you have something to pat yourself on the back with.

Dennis
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Other than your say so I haven't seen anything in writing that credits you personally with any of this. Have to find that big Mickey Mouse hand and send it to ya so you have something to pat yourself on the back with.

Dennis
But you also haven't seen anything that says he didn't either. Here in the US, many times things get done without the people involved being given credit for their participation and that's just the way it is. Sounds to me like you're the one trying to stir the pot on this one.

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Old 06-11-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
But you also haven't seen anything that says he didn't either. Here in the US, many times things get done without the people involved being given credit for their participation and that's just the way it is. Sounds to me like you're the one trying to stir the pot on this one.
Ah one of his minions jumping in good for you. I wonder when the other 4 or 5 will flutter to his defense. Awful small fan boy base no wonder they can be ignored. LOL

Man sends email to FAA asking a question. Man gets answer to question. Man takes credit for pinning down the FAA and forcing them to go on record so he says. Sounds like man is looking for an atta boy to me. You can feather your own nest all you want but without absolute proof its feathered with Do Do feathers as far as I am concerned.

As with all you guys you claim to speak for the multitudes and how there are so many dissatisfied with the leadership yet you never seem to be able to supply names (a data base) of those members just an unnamed amount. If this site is an indication of support for you lets look at how many members on the site? Now what there are at most a dozen that frequent and agree with any of your anti AMA topics you post here. Hardly worth a second glance. By the way I've noticed your posts on other forums with even less interested people than here so I guess that's why you spend so much time here punching out this diatribe.

Its fun to see how badly you few have your knickers in a knot keep up the good work the entertainment value is priceless.LOL

Oh ya and some of the fan base are not even members of the AMA what a hoot.

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Old 06-12-2019, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Man sends email to FAA asking a question. Man gets answer to question. Man takes credit for pinning down the FAA and forcing them to go on record so he says. Sounds like man is looking for an atta boy to me. You can feather your own nest all you want but without absolute proof its feathered with Do Do feathers as far as I am concerned.
The fact remains that despite the law being in place for quite some time before that, nobody had asked the question of the FAA. I did. And yes, so far as I can tell, I was the first. As for credit or not, I could care less if it comes from folks who are so emotional about AMA that they cannot see it for what it is ... an organization more about the money than they are about the good of members. On the other hand, fair minded people appreciate my email question and response for what it was, someone taking action to prevent a private dues collecting organization from using law to compel membership.

Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
As with all you guys you claim to speak for the multitudes and how there are so many dissatisfied with the leadership yet you never seem to be able to supply names (a data base) of those members just an unnamed amount. If this site is an indication of support for you lets look at how many members on the site? Now what there are at most a dozen that frequent and agree with any of your anti AMA topics you post here. Hardly worth a second glance. By the way I've noticed your posts on other forums with even less interested people than here so I guess that's why you spend so much time here punching out this diatribe.
And where are they? Look at AMA's declining membership revenue. That's where you'll find them. People who are leaving because AMA is just not that important to them. Leaving because they disagree with the AMA's "Embracing the Drone" strategy that forever linked MRs and "traditional model aircraft." Or people leaving because they just don't see value. They're out there, and the numbers are growing (based on AMA's financial trends).

Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Its fun to see how badly you few have your knickers in a knot keep up the good work the entertainment value is priceless.LOL
It seems that your knickers are in a knot, for were they not, you wouldn't feel the need to write such a thoughtful, albeit emotional, response.

Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Oh ya and some of the fan base are not even members of the AMA what a hoot.
As is their choice under the law, a law that now includes "OR" instead of "AND" in a crucial spot. A law that no longer allows AMA to imply that membership is required to participate in the hobby under the recreational rules.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Other than your say so I haven't seen anything in writing that credits you personally with any of this. Have to find that big Mickey Mouse hand and send it to ya so you have something to pat yourself on the back with.

Dennis
Please do. I'll put it on a plaque entitled "Recognition from the Emotional AMA Uber Alles Crowd"
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:03 AM
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Franklin no emotion here my homeland flying is quite ok I’m just playing with you seeing if when there is a lack of others you are willing to argue with just about anyone about anything and somehow you will turn it to get a dig in or two about your old nemesis namely the AMA. LOL
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Anyone care to guess why they don't say definitively whether AMA members can or cannot fly above 400 AGL in class G?
UMMM,,,,afraid of where their salaries will come from when the membership realizes that there is absolutely no value to being an AMA member anymore?

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