lrglnman

Ok folks I just received this fantastic ARF http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA5050
I would like to keep this thread to gasoline discussion only and to the Seagull Ultimate plane. I know there is another thread going on that has died with several of us wondering about gas motors for this plane. If I remember right Mr. Haney installed a zenoah g20 in his and had made a couple of flights. Has any one else installed a gas motor on this plane and if so please elaborate on your build and performance of your chosen engine.
When I got this ARF opened up all I can say is WOW!!!!! No iorning,no shrinking, just start assembly. I hope to get lots of input on this as It will help a great many folks who want to make the transition from glo to gas eaiser. I still have not ruled a glo engine out but I really want to go gas on this plane.
SO please tell me your stories about this plane and your prformances also what you would do different.


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busted blade

I too have been assembling mine for the past few days, Although I will be using a Saito 125 on mine. I do believe the plane can handle the weight(very well built and strong) and the best hardware pack I have seen in a while, but balancing the extra weight might be an issue.

I would also like to know and see some pics of their gas engine setups.

Only thing I changed so far was to trash the super small tailwheel and replace with 1.50 inch wheel, should track much easier on grass runway(what I fly off of). I think it looks better also.

I am not to far from getting it finished cant wait to take it up and see what it can do...

lrglnman

I have not tore into mine yet waiting on alot of info before I get started . I really want to go gas. I know of a guy who put a saito 125 on his and still had to add weight to ballance it. the BCMA 26 motor weighs 33 oz complete and a saito weighs 24.69 oz. so if he had to add weight to ballance I would rather add motor than lead. plus the BCMA motor is $275 the saito is $339. the difference is a digital servo I was planning to add smoke on this plane ust have to see how it flies before i tackel that project.

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

If you dont mind sharing, what did you have to pay for your ultimate from Horizon? Did you have any discount codes or coupons to use?Very nice looking plane, btw.
Thanks,
John

lrglnman

I had no coupons I think out the door it was about 200 bucks. I ordered it through a local hobby store. I unpacked mine this afternoon and started to do a little work on it but had to quit for other things.maybe tomorrow. I still have not decided on the engine most people are installing a saito 125 on this and only one other person has installed a zenoah g20 . I still would like input on a gas engine for this plane and see if other people like it . I really want smoke but I am scared that it will be way too heavy if I did that and install a gas motor. I f I go glo I don't have to worry about the weight .

busted blade

Finally have mine all together, currently with a saito 1.25 in it. I have done some reading and am considering replacing with a SPE 26 gas engine in this plane.

Weight is only slightly heavier than the Saito and seems to swing the same size prop as the Saito. Anyone have experiences with the SPE line of engines specifically the 26 in a 9-10 pound plane? Are they reliable and make good power? Please share your thoughts on the SPE engine line.

lrglnman

Busted, there is some good reading over in the gas forum here on rcu about SPE motors .l The SPE is the same motor as the BCMA motor and according to those guys that engine is real nice. Those two motors are the ones I am considering as well, along with the Evolution 26. But the Evo is nearly $100 more and about the same weight. I think the Evo is a tad bit lighter. Here is the link to that thread http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3967906/tm.htm. The SPE at Ceramark is $250 the BCMA is going for $275. This is good reading about this motor . They have improved the electronic ignition a great bit. They claim the motor will 3d a nine pound plane really nice. But I am still considering a 150 Saito but am still leaning toward the gas.

lrglnman

Oh and Busted tell me about your setup .servos, switches , batteries, etc. how did it perform with your setup is the 125 saito going to do what you wanted?

busted blade

Radio is DX7 and receiver is ar7000, servos I am using in it are rudder Hitec 5945mg digital, elevator futaba 3305's, ailerons are Hitec 5645mg digitals, throttle futaba 3004. Servos are overkill for this size of plane but I used what I had laying around. for receiver battery I am using a JR 2700 6volt extra pack attached under the canopy between the two front braces. battery at instruction position made it a little nose heavy. So i split the difference and attached it to the canopy. Battery switch is JR heavy duty with charge jack built in.

I put three flights on it Sunday morning and it flew great. The 125 saito is plenty of power with a 16*6 prop(Zinger wood). Using cool power 15% synthetic fuel. I didnt try anything crazy with it but it will cruise around nice at about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and vertical performance seems pretty good with it. engine is new and still running very rich. Once I lean it down a little it should have unlimited vertical performance (I hope). I will do some more flying this weekend and see what it can really do. Landing this thing is very easy and slow.

I might be leaving the 125 on it and forget about gas for now, It seems to have more than enough power but havent really flown it enough to judge it yet. So far a great flying bi-plane with super responsive control surfaces.

jblloyd

My Feedback: (17)

Busted, I just finished mine and have not yet flown it. I balanced it at 13.75cm from the root leading edge with a Saito 125 and a 2200mah battery up front. I based my CG guess on splitting the difference between the manufacturer's suggestion of 12.5cm to 15cm from leading edge. Since you have had successful flights, can you tell me where your's is balanced? Also, what control surface throws did you use for initial flights?

Thanks for the help.

busted blade

I also split the difference and CG is set at 13.5cm. It flies great at this setting but I may experiment a little later on. As far as surfaces I will have to get back to you on precise measurments. I set mine to get maximum throw on high rate and about half of that throw on low rate. I use about 30% expo on all rates and surfaces. I usually do all my airplanes this way, Might not be proper but has always worked for me. I havent tried the high rates yet, so it is possible that full deflection might be too much. I would say use the throws in the booklet and you should be just fine.

With my receiver battery being slightly heavier I could not get it to mount up front as suggested. Once I moved it back it balanced out perfectly at the 13.5cm mark and did not require any extra weights.

I think you will be very happy with this planes performance. I cant wait to get it back in the air.

I am considering changing the upper to lower wing control rod, it seems to be a little weak and flexible. Might go with a carbon tube setup. I already installed a bigger tail wheel and it tracks beautifully on a grass runway.

jblloyd

My Feedback: (17)

Thanks for the response. I have already considered changing to a carbon rod for the wings and will probably do it. I broke-in the engine this weekend and, if the weather is OK, will maiden it Sunday.

lrglnman

thanks for the info guys little tips like that sure helps us all out. The aileron wire looked a little weak to me as did the elevator wire . do you think a person should change that out as well. what set up did you folks use for throttle? braided cable, nyrod or some kind of solid wire? I have never seen carbon fiber rod used on the ailrons what kind of connector at the control horns are you using? I think I am with you guys on the engine I may go with the Saito 125 or 150. What do you think of the 150?

busted blade

It was an idea I was toying with using carbon tube for ailerons. I cant decide which way to do it yet, the wire for elevators seem to be just fine. throttle setup I used was what was supplied in the kit(solid rod). Since the plane is virtually built for a direct fit of the saito 125 it was an easy install.

If I go to carbon tube I will epoxy or CA glue 2-56 threaded metal rod into it and use metal clevises to attach to control links. Might be easier to purchase better quality metal rods instead of using carbon.

I dont know about using the 150 in this plane, Weight for the 150 appears to be almost 10 oz. more not including the muffler. For my setup that might make it difficult to balance. You would definatly have to place receiver battery at the back of the canopy.

The 125 so far seems to be more than enough power even running extremely rich, but if you decide on the 150 I would like to hear the results. I am fairly new to 4-stroke saitos so hopefully some others can answer that better.

One thing you definatly dont have to worry about is prop size on this plane, there is plenty of ground clearance.

lrglnman

yea I am a complete noob on 4 strokes . what about the fuel tank? are you getting plenty of flight time. looks like a 12oz I guess if the saito 125 will do everything you can do with the ultimate, thats going to be my choice. I was worried about adding weight to the nose. I refuse to add lead weight when a bigger motor will work better. So an up date on my build. I got the horizontal and vertical stab epoxied this evening did not have to do any sanding the stab came out perfect with the lower wing and the vertical stab was with in 1-2 mm of perfect.I figured if needed I can adjust any discrepencies with the stableizing wires later. Are you having to use many serve extensions. I am ordering the motor next week and the servos in 3 weeks. I am defently going to do smoke on this plane but not until i get her set up right and several flights under my belt. The smoke on a biplane is a must.

jblloyd

My Feedback: (17)

With a Saito 125 and a 2200mah, 6v battery up front, mine balanced right on the money without any additional weight.

busted blade

Yep, Even with the 2700 battery up front it was real close but was slightly nose heavy. I didnt care for the plastic fuel tank fittings so I had a spare tank from my SIG extra that I used. I think the stock tank is 430 cc and the SIG tank is 450cc. only slight bigger. I dont have any time limits on a tank yet still too new and runnning really rich, so its most likely using a lot more fuel than it normally does.

I just finished re-checking and going over everything and resetting control throws, I am amazed it flew as good as it did!!! LOL. Knife edge flight was horrible the other day, Hopefully I have that solved. Elevator servos didnt have even throws causing them to be way off. I now have everything set to the instructions except I boosted the rates up a tad. Just when you think you have it finished, it really does pay to check things twice.

Another thing I am thinking of doing is to CA the brass fittings into the main wings, I am afraid one day they might try to rotate and that would be bad.

My setup so far:

LOW RATE:

Ailerons.....3/4 up, 5/8 down
elevator......1 3/8" up, 1 3/8" down
Rudder........2.5 both directions

HIGH RATE:

Ailerons.....1" up, 7/8 down
Elevator.....1 3/4" up, 1 3/4" down
rudder....... 3.5 both directions

I run a fair amount of expo (30%) so it does tame it down alot. But you have the throw if you need it. I wont get a chance to put it in the air Until this weekend. Judging from how it flew last weekend It should be even better now.

Please, Dont let me talk you into a motor you dont want. But so far I am personally very happy with the 125 in this plane.

lrglnman

I really appreciate the advice you all are throwing my way on this plane.So far I have incorperated some things you have suggested . If this plane has plenty of vertical then I have no problem with a saito 125. The main concern I had was having to add lead. If things are working well with the 2700 mah battery .That is the route I will take, plus saving $50 bucks. I talked to the local hobby shop and I was concerened about the high price of digital servos and he recommened High Tech hs645's gives over 133 oz torque at 6volts. I think I will go this route and still run a 2500 mah battery.

fred685

My Feedback: (67)

What kind of total weight are your Ultimates coming in at? I looked at one in the box the other day. Looked great, but seemed heavy.

lrglnman

Fred, looks like they are comming in around 9 lbs some close to 10 . I am not close to weighing mine yet but will post as soon as i can. from other forums this plane is a little heavier than the goldberg but I can't atest to that claim

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

anyone tried using a homelite 25cc weedie gasser engine on this plane?

lrglnman

The only person to install a gas engine is Mr Haney here on RCU and he installed the zenoah g20. he liked to results the zenoah is a little heavy . the fuji 24, the evolution 26, a brellei 26 , bcma 26, all these is good choices. don't know what a homelite conversion weighs i guess if you can keep it under 40 oz you are safe .most people are installing the os120 or saito 125 on this size plane. I was hopeing that other folks would install a gas motor on this plane when I started this thread but most folks think its too heavy. I have given up on a gas motor and am going glo.

busted blade

had some more flights on it this weekend and I will have to say the 125 saito continues to impress me. I did finally add the carbon tubes and 2-56 ball links for ailerons and man did that fix the slop in the setup. also glued the brass fittings in so they dont try to spin around, for added insurance. still havent dremal'd the extra threads though.

After checking over my setup I noticed the elevator halves werent moving equally, now that its fixed flew much better. I also cut back on my low rate settings quite abit, this thing has so much control surface I went to the book settings and that helped alot too.

I talked to my LHS guru and he only knew one person so far that had tried gas for power. This person used the Zenoah 20cc and said while it flew ok, he felt like it was underpowered. wished he would have went with the 26cc instead, but that I think is too much weight for this plane.

here are a few pics. of mine awaiting its next flights.

lrglnman

thats great busted!!!!! I got the servos installed I went with hitech hs645 at 6 volts got them installed last nite and all the control surfaces. got to hook up the pull pull rudder andhook up the elevators to the servos. my 125 saito should be here tomorrow. are you running any kind of on board glo plug ignitor. I was thinking of installing one and do you think the stock tank is big enough? where did you find the carbon fiber rods and fittings. if i had all the money to experiment and do it over again i would put the evolution 26 on this plane. it weighs close to the os120 by just a very few ounces. i painted my cabains midnite blue so they would blend in and was thinking of dooing the landing gear in that color too. just waiting for the paint to dry to see if i need to touch them up.I noticed you did not install the Ultimate sticker to the rudder I was thinking of doing the same thing. I used up most of the stickers but was wanting to do something nice to the rudder to personlize it. i have a beard so I thought i would paint the pilot to resemble myself. and add my signature around the cockpit .I really want to do smoke so in the future after i get it dialed in and dont crash it i may tackle that .I plan on low rates as well cause i want to do more scale manuevars and tricks. dont see many planes doing blistering rolls per second in real life. where is your cg located ? I noticed you used a wood prop why not an APC? and what spinner did you use. I guess i will rest awhile keep me informed of your progress and any changes you incorperate in it

lrglnman

whoops busted i should have looked up i answered one or two of my questions already