skypiratescotty

My Feedback: (32)

So I maidened my Lucky Star 40 New Years day and was surprised that it won't roll very well. It does a really slow barrel roll but won't aileron roll at all. The manual calls for 7mm deflection each direction and I'm getting almost 9mm up/down. I flew alot for about 6 years but fell out of the hobby for 5yrs so I thought it would be a good idea to start out again on a trainer and I remember my first trainer, a World Models plane, would roll pretty nice. This one has all the throw I can get and CG is on the money. Any ideas ?

Thanks
Scotty

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Trainers are pretty much designed NOT to roll. That said, you could try sealing the aileron gaps if they are large, and/or increasing the throw even more.

AltaTed

A different Question... I have a Jetiger that came without any manual or papererwork at all and I need details on how to wire it up to the receiver.  It's delta wing and has a single flap on each side. Thats it.  This is my first delta and I'm clueless as to how to set it up.

Any help is appreciated..

AltaTed

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Ted, you should ask this question in a new thread.

AltaTed

I did before but I have but no answers to it, darn it. Not a single reply, Thanks.  Maybe I didn't do it in the right forum.  Where do you suggest ??

I'm new to the forums and just getting aquainted.

AltaTed

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Try this one:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_106/tt.htm

Steve Steinbring

Scotty,

I've got three trainers that I use to instruct with, none of them roll very well all basically barrel roll as you described. Try rolling and adding rudder as well that should help to tighten things up a bit for you.

red head

Scotty ; Sealing the hinges is a good idea, another thing you might try is to move your CG back just a bit, just be carefull and don't go to far. Try the sealed hinges and useing the rudder first, that should help. When checking out a students plane I usually try a roll and most times I have to use rudder to get it around. Later we do some adjusting. ENJOY !!! RED

skypiratescotty

My Feedback: (32)

Thanks all
Thinking back, I may just be wanting more from a trainer than it is capable of. When I was flying on a daily basis my two goto planes were a World Models Ultimate 40 and a BH Super Air 40, both of which had symetrical wings and had a fast roll rate. I now fly this trainer and have a Pheonix Super Decathlon with a Super Tiger 75 on it and just a few more flights on the trainer I'll bust out the Decathlon which I'm sure will roll nicely. I just love Cuban 8's, split -s and Immelmans. On a positive note, the Barrel rolls this trainer does is more smooth than any I tried on my areobatic planes!!!

Thanks Again
Scotty

ps: I tried to post a flight video but a window popped up saying the file wasn't supported?

Rodney

One thing that will help the roll rate if you can do it is to remove most or all of the dihedral. This is usually not practical to do as you have to cut the wing in half and rejoin the halves with little or no dihedral. Re attaching the wing halves can be a problem as the joint has to be reinforced with a new joiner or fiberglass patch.

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

Get it up high enough and hold the stick all the way to one side. Eventually, it will roll. 9 mm is not even a half inch. Get them to move a half inch, and it will roll

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Not being familiar with either you or your plane, this suggestion may be of no use to you. I have several trainers and the roll rates were sluggish, so I decided to experiment. I installed a servo for each aileron and removed the center servo in a Tower Hobbies .60 trainer. It made a world of difference. I don't know how your plane is set up. It might already have dual servos. If not, installing servos in each wing is not really difficult, but it does require a minimal amount of building experience.

skypiratescotty

My Feedback: (32)

When I assembled the trainer I thought about removing the dihedral and made a new joiner but the wing really didn't fit the fuse that well so I built it per instructions. It's cool though, it'll juswt be an easy to fly Sunday plane.

Thanks for all the advice but I think I'll just leave the trainer as is and focus on the Super Decathlon for aerobatics!!

Scotty

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

This is how you get a high wing trainer even with a flat bottomed wing to Emulate the neutral roll stability of well trimmed low wing pattern plane:

John

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Jeez, John, what did you do, mount that wing upside-down?

Dick.

mike109

G'day

If your Super Decathlon is anything like my Super Decathlon then you are going to learn about the rudder (if you don't already know). My Decathlon needs proper coordinated turns (rudder, elevator and aileron) or it just wanders off on its own especially on landing when at low speed the ailerons are no longer powerful enough to yaw it.

I am not a good rudder user so for landing I have set up an aileron to rudder mix and this works perfectly.

Meanwhile I am trying to learn to use the rudder properly on a modified tail dragger Kadet Senior with reduced dihedral and barn door ailerons.

Cheers.

Mike in Oz

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

It must have been my nightly tablespoon of Geritol when I glued the dihdral brace in upside down

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

Scotty,

Here's a couple of things that can affect roll rate and how to fix them.
1. If you are using a single, center mounted, aileron servo, it may not be strong enough and may be letting the asilerons flatten out due to the force of the air. Hold in full aileron and see how easy or hard it is to move an aileron with your hand. If it's pretty easy, you probably need a stronger servo.

2. Speed affects the rolling force, more speed, more force and a faster roll. If you are running an 11-6 or 10-6 prop, try a prop with 1" more pitch and 1" less diameter.

3. Excessive dihedral tends to make rolls barrel out. You may need to use rudder along with aileron to increase the roll speed and lessen the barreling out.

4. Holding elevator during the roll will get you a barrel roll every time. You must release all the up elevator before starting the roll. I teach rolls as a "By the numbers" maneuver. Step 1 is to raise the nose slightly, then release all the up elevator. Step 2 is to add in full aileron and hold until the roll is complete, then release. Step 3 is to use up elevator to bring the nose back up to level flight.

John Buckner: Love the anhedral on your trainer. I've been pushing anhedral on high wing planes for years.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Indeed and it works so well, I cringe when the fellows go to all of the trouble of flattening the wing on shoulder wing or cabin type knowing they are only half way there. Your sticks are certainly a 'cut above' the ordinary and mundane. Pun intended

The only downside for the fellows who are not afraid to take a hack saw to wing is for the first flights you must keep the airplane in a tighter box simply because especialy with the high wing trainer the visual configuration cues are so different that it easy to get confused at first. Also its very easy to during inverted flight to forget you are in fact upside down.

John

armody

My Feedback: (10)

Aren't these wings ANHEDRAL? Adverse of Dihedral

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

I've often thought of how a plane would fly with anhedral, but was never brave enough to try. But I guess it can't be much different than flying thin profile a fully symmetrical wing, which I fly all the time with my patten planes.

CGr.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well, I didn't build this one but...

Someone once told us that the fuel system on a C-5 would allow it to fly inverted. One of the guys asked "How long can it fly upside down?" The reply was, "All the way to the crash site"

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

I guess there are no really ugly airplanes (Warthog?) but that one comes close. (the one in MinnFlyer's post)

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Do you have aileron differential? Seems to me what you are describing is an adverse yaw. Differential would be a huge step towards curing this.

Hossfly

Hello Scotty;

Any airplane will aileron roll, however there may well be something required more than ailerons to get it to do so, or at least to maintain the attitude that you want while performing the roll.

I have no clue what you airplane looks like or the size or power. But I assume that it is the standard aileron equipped trainer. Here is the easy way to get something started.

1. Set up your ailerons with at least 18 mm (3/4 of an inch for a standard. 40-46 size model) on high rate.

EDITED to ADD: Seal the aileron hinge lines with tape, or whatever, just as long as they move freely. That hinge line, no matter how closely hinged, is a "mucho detriment" to the roll rate of any RC model. Once had a friend complaining about his slow servos. I told him to seal the aileron line. He did. After next flight he reduced the aileron throws. HA!

2. Set up some differential. The aileron should move more UP than Down. Either by the radio electronically or placement of the servo horns for 2 servos. One servo, use a wheel on the servo, maybe drill some additional holes on the wheel or whatever it takes to have the UP direction move father than the DOWN direction. More UP than down.

3. Another good thing is to washout the wing. If it's standard ARF covering or money-cote style, use your hot air gun and twist the outer wing ends at the trailing edge UP. Play with it until there is some noticeable up at the trailing edge from the center of the wing. Less than desired but I do it all the time is to cut the ailerons back 3-4 inches at the tip, rehinge the aileron and glue the short tip peices back to the wing with a 15-20 degree deflection UP. Makes landings much easier through a more stable approach, especially during the roundout phase.

4. When you want to roll, gain some speed slightly nose down, relax the forward pressure and slightly nose up, relax all elevator, apply aileron and slight rudder, then as the model approaches upside down, bump in some down, (down on the sticks, not the model) and relax it quickly, while continuing the roll then bringing nose to level flight attitude as you complete. Rudder can help especially to start the roll. After a few tries, you will get the hang of when and how much of everything to use for your airplane. Remember the airplane knows NOT where the ground is. It just follows your commands. Use the controls to command your desires.

5. One of the main problems most people have is to use too fast control movement like computer games. Airplanes need smooth control pressures more so than jerking the sticks. No, I don't do 3D. [:'(] I like to fly my models like I flew the real thing. Smooth, quick when needed, but always positive.