dragus359

My Feedback: (1)

Hi everyone,

I'm having similar-ish problems. Ever since my battery puffed over the summer, I haven't been able to get a single successful flight out of my axe. I've got a new battery, esc and motor (all 3 upgraded from what I had before) and they all get ridiculously hot after flying for a couple of minutes. To avoid damaging my new components I avoid flying now. I'm getting a couple of pinons (stepping down) in the mail, but I still doubt that my gearing is the issue because my heli had no problems before my battery incident. I am however using the same connectors and segments of wires that I've had for a whole year. I also did notice that the old wire segments (now soddered to my new wires) do look a bit crispy. Could that be the issue? I haven't tried getting new connectors and getting rid of my used wires because I just don't want to deal with the soddering if I don't have to. I have a feeling that I really should replace those connectors and wires though :-( If anyone ran into this kinda problem and knows the answer for sure, please help me. Thanks!

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

What kind of battery, esc, and motor did you get? Sounds like the whole thing is drawing a lot of amps and this is your cause.

r_william

I recently converted to brushed, yes brushed, separates along with a gy240.
The esc's do not even get warm on 6 minute hovers (with a little vertical climbing and some rudamentary FF). The ESCs are sized as: 25 amp-main, 12 amp-tail.

However the stock MAIN motor does seem to be getting warmer that before when using the 3 in 1 board. I first though maybe it was pinion/gear spacing (binding, backlash, etc.) but experimentation eliminated that.

It could be a coincidence in that the main motor may be failing and is now getting hotter (it has 300+ 5-6 min. flights on it) or the ESC is somehow more efficient at power transfer but that doesn't pass the common sense test.

The batteries, 11.1v, 910 maH, get slightly warm with the battery charger indicating the 6 min. flights are consuming about 650-700maH or about 75% capacity.

Maybe I have too much pitch for the throttle setting causing excessive loading. As soon as these hurricanes pass and the wind settles down I will do some experimenting with that.

JEMFLYER

r william,

I've got two Axe "daily fliers". One stock and one with a C12 and GY240. I use Helimax lipo protection modules on both and always fly (absent a crash) until the LPM cuts the gas.

I fly without training gear and no vertical fin on either heli.

For awhile (until the battery quit) I was checking the temps of the tail motor, main motor and battery after each flite, using a Duratrax Flashpoint IR remote thermo.

Allowing for variations, on my fully stock heli, with 15-30 flites on the main motor, the main motor temp would be about 250f. My Gy240 heli with 170-185 flites on the main motor would be about 350f.

After putting a new main motor on the GY240 heli, main motor temps fell about 50 degrees, to around 300f.

I attribute the increased temps on the GY240 heli to the increased weight, due to the gyro and C12.

Possibly the reason hi-time motors run hotter is due to increased resistance from the brushes to the commutator and increased friction due to worn bushings (what else is there?).

I found a web site, 24hourbatteries, that sells 10 cr2032's for $7.99, including shipping and handling. I ordered 10 yesterday, so I'll soon have my thermo running again. I'm hoping the chart the change in temps as the motors, tail and main, age. I'm also curious to see if the battery temps stay constant.

Finally, I think my next main motor is going to be the 380x offered by xtreme. It has ball bearings and replaceable carbon brushes for under $20.

dragus359

My Feedback: (1)

Actually I fixed it. I got over my laziness and put in the work lol. I resoddered on some new connectors between the esc and the motor and got rid of the old wires and that cleared things right up. I think I went overkill on my motor, esc and battery though. Well I mean it's not a bad thing cuz they're barely warm now after a full flight. I'm running a 4000kv motor a 27A battery (1800mAh, 15C) and a 40A esc, so I think I'm set on Amp draws. The motor shouldn't draw more than about 20A. Now I just have to replace that pinion gear that I've got held in place with super glue lol

r_william

Thanks Jemflyer.

I never considered the [added] weight. But it would pass the common sense test!

In addition to that... are the new 910 mah recall replacement batts. heavier than the older 950 mah???
I made the 3 in 1 elimination/brushed ESCs, Gyro conversion while I was grounded waiting for the replacement batteries. Sooo... I changed a lot all at once.

The motor aging scenario you described is plausible. While I'm in no hurry for my 9 mos. old motors to fail, I am curious about the performance comparison once the new ones are installed (since I have them, I'll replace both the main and tail motors together regardless of which fails first).
Then I'll be looking into finding others [motors] that are serviceable like the 380x you mentioned.

Now I wish I had weighed the Axe the week I got it so I could compare that to now.
Since then I have replaced (upgraded) ALL the electrical components except the two motors and their connecting wires.

BTW: I never used the LPMs I received. I just monitor the battery recharge parameters to judge the flight times. As I said before I'm getting 6 min. hovers with vertcal climbs and slow FF with the "recall replacement" batts. That equals about 75% battery capacity.

dragus...
Generally speaking You, Me, We [everyone] really need to pay close attention to the "electricals". Good solder connections are essential. After all these are "electric" helis! Glad to hear you fixed it all. You were wise to over spec the new components thus greatly improving reliability.

dragus359

My Feedback: (1)

Lol I'm glad too. Now I just need to get a lighter battery, cuz the one I'm currently using is a bit large haha. And as for the over all weight issue, I pretty much converted to brushless when my axe "put on some weight". My main motor(s) kept burning out like crazy. I destroyed about 3 in one week, so that was just about it for me.

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

A 1800 Mah battery is awfully heavy. I tried a 1500mah battery and it was much too heavy for the stock motor. Everything was extra hot at the end of the flight.

pbellamy

how do i make my axe cp more stable for a beginner? i can fly the dual rotor helicopters, but i can't even get my axe cp to hover. should i add weights to the ends of the flybar to make it easier to control??

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

That will work. Use the same size wheel collars as what is on the flybar at the stabilizer hub.

JEMFLYER

pbellamy,

I taught myself how to hover using an Axe. Check out the Helimax CD if you have one and read the training procedure in the manual, which is available online.

Hovering is a difficult skill. But, I think most pilots would agree that adding weights to the flybar is counter-productive.

You need the quick response of the stock head to recover from over-controlling.

A properly set-up and trimmed Axe is quite stable, requiring only very small corrections to hover. Adding weights to the flybar
forces you to make larger corrections when you should be learning to make small ones.

It may take you several hundred flights to learn to hover "tail in", i.e. with the nose of the heli pointing away from you. And it
may take several hundred more flights to learn to hover "nose in", since the cyclic controls have to be operated in opposite directions from
tail in hovering.

All of this is much more difficult if the heli is not set up correctly. One thing to check is the see-saw. It should move freely back and forth. Loosen the two screws holding the
see saw until it does move freely.

A good way to start learning to hover is to learn to control the tail. Add power until the heli is light on the skids. With no rudder input the nose will probably turn to your left, i.e. counter-
clockwise. So add right rudder until the tail is straight toward you. While learning this, you do not need to even touch the collective. Just add enough power so the heli starts to take off, correct the tail motion and reduce power and reposition the heli. Keep doing this until you can confidently "fly the tail". While doing this you can learn how to trim the rudder so that very little rudder input is needed on take off.

Once you can fly the tail, you can start learning the collective. Keep adding power until the heli barely lifts off, and while keeping the tail straight, use the collective to keep the heli from moving around. For these kinds of flights, you want to stay very close to the ground, not more that an foot or so of altitude. And of course, you want the training gear attached. Basically, you will take off, lose control, chop the throttle, reposition the heli and try again, over and over until you learn the necessary motor skills.

Good luck.

Rotor13B

I have to agree with JEMFLYER on this one. Adding weights is counterproductive, The Axe out of the box is a very stable heli because it is heavy for it's size. If you can't hover something or several things are out of sync. Make sure your swashplate moves level up and down i.e. when at low collective your swash should be level with the heli. Anything else will induce unwanted movement back and forth side to side etc. that you don't want or need at this point. If your worried about lateral movement, I would suggest spinning up the heli just before it gets light on it's skids and then add just enough collective to get it of the ground. Don't try to finnese it in the air, Once it takes off the lateral movement will stop. If your heli is setup properly an 1/8 inch more of collective will be plenty to get it in the air. Once it's in the air, small cyclic movements is all you need to hover. Practice with training gear to protect the heli until you get a feel for what it needs to get off the ground. IMO once you can hover you should lose the gear because the heli will not respond as fast as you want for cyclic inputs.

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

I didn't put weights on mine when I learned, but heard of some guys who did and they liked it. Others moved the connecting rod in one hole on the servo to reduce cyclic response. The only experience I have with weights is on the Bell/Hiller upgrade. Started without the weights and couldn't believe how sensitive it was. Expo would have helped here, but these stock radios are not equipped, so the wieght really helped calm it down. Even now, I never input more than about a 1/16th inch movement. Infact, if I exhale out my nose, the air on the sticks has an effect. (well, maybe) My point is I would like to feel the spring tension against my thumb and finger a little more, and now its barely there. So, to each their own. The biggest problem with learning to fly RC is overcontrolling.

pbellamy

thanks for all the suggestions, I'll give them a shot!

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

And So, I've been flying with the brushless main motor and the brushless tail motor for the past three weeks. The axe is flying perfectly and my confidence is building to the point where are I want to try a loop or a roll. The local church parking lot and field makes for a nice large area to recover from mistakes. However, it's next to a road that leads out of the housing area and there's a car going by every 2 minutes. Otherwise there are people in the parking lot or using the soccer field next door. Knowing that they're watching me, my nerves get the best a me and I can't get the courage to fly inverted. By the time I land I'm shaking so hard the antenna on the transmitter is bouncing up and down. How do you calm your nerves while flying?

If I'm flying a routine that I've flown numerous times before, I can fly and my nerves are just fine. Knowing that I am going to try something new and I'm not sure of the outcome, that's when my adrenaline starts to flow and my hands start to shake. There's always alcohol to calm the nerves but then the reflexes are too slow.

It's not like you can add weights and it will fly upside down. You just have to go for it!

r_william

You must fly as though you and the heli are invisible!

Forget who may or may not be watching you.

Wait until you feel comfortable with your TOTAL situation.

I have similar "exposure" to others and have learned to focus on flying only.

You can do it.

RWW

r_william

One more thing...

Not everyone is interested in helis.

Many people pass by as I fly and never even take a second look.

So there is no reason to worry about the "passers-by"!

Fly your heli.

RWW

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

Brought the Axe to the local flying field this evening. The wind calmed down and it was perfect for trying new maneuvers. Decided to not say anything to anybody and just go into my corner and do what I want. The first loop was totally crooked and it basically stopped once in was upside down. Lost lots of altitude too. Still, negative collective and it went up a little, then it was facing nose down and going down. Pulled out of it at about 6 feet from the ground. IT WORKED! Tried it again. This time it began to spin so I tried to bail out. Outa control so I killed the idle up switch so it would burn up the electronics. Somehow, it ended up landing right side up on the skids like it was an autorotation. Got lots of applause.

Finding there was no damage, I thought I'd try a roll. Well, it went haywire and I lost orientation again and crash landed on the skids. Bent feathering spindle, broken skids, broken tail fin. Not bad for three inverted attempts.

DRBo

My wife bought me an air hog for Christmas ( I had been a Navy Helo crewman a few years back), she did not know what she was getting me into. I bought my axe cp within 2 months. I have tried to be extremly cautious in learning to fly it. I have had to replace 1 swashplate, 8 blade grips, 1 set of main rotor blades & 1 tail rotor blade. I went back and got me an EFlight CX2 to practice nose in flight and it has proved to be a durable training device. I then purchased the Great Planes simulator and am now able to fly the axe CP sim through some inverted flight though not consistant yet on recovery. Here is the real issue, the helo is far more sensitive than the sim and appears to have something wrong with the tail rotor. I pull it up into a hover, as long as I keep the heading constant it does well. If I let the nose drift 45 degres or so to the left it will violently depart to the left and full right rudder will not stop it. On my last flight I was in a stable hover started into forward flight I had gone about 20 feet it snapped turned 540 degrees left as I dropped the collective it impacted tail in but nothing was broken. Any ideas on why it always wants to depart left (besides not having a heading gyro).

drbo

r_william

As you have suspected, left [nose] yaw indicates an under-performing tail rotor SYSTEM.

That means it could be a few things on an Axe...

the battery (is there a main rotor speed drop as well?),
the motor,
the 3 in 1,
the wiring,
the receiver (rudd. channel),
tail rotor mechanicals,
pinion slippage,
etc.

After it first "departs" nose left, the gyro (3 in 1) will try to speed up the tail to halt further rotation, this further strains the system and that leads to further failure resulting in the 540 or so deg. rotation.

Just a thought based on your post.

RWW

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

I try to "ignore" people who are watching. The only problem with that is if they start to approach, I want to be sure to avoid them. You are right, just concentrate on the flight and don't worry about the audience.

PilotLight

My Feedback: (1)

Was checking my order status at Tower and came across order history. Decided to to a copy and paste into a spread sheet and then to add up what I've spent. Its over a thousand dollars ! Although, that's from December of 06. The crashes are getting more fantastic as they occur inverted now and are breaking more parts than when learning to hover. Its still cheaper than auto racing parts or golf as a hobby and lots more fun.

Anybody else want to admit to money spent?

nscradar

Just in Axe CP parts, not to mention the rest of the hanger or the radio, I am into Helimax for a little over $1750. Of course i do have more than one flying axe. Still I spent more than that just in entry fees racing roundy round in a season. Gotta love this addiction.

nscradar

Food For Thought

Recently while doing a rebuild on one of my axes, I noticed that the tail pitch slider is off center to the right ( looking from the rear ) where as on my CX and B400 the slider was left of center. The heli flew just fine, no discernible bad habits that were not pilot error. On closer inspection I noticed that the control arms were on the leading edge of the tail rotor blades. Now based on my auto racing experience, I know that there is a significant difference in performance depending on the track and surface type between a front steer (control arm ahead of axle) and rear steer (control arm aft of axle). I am using align metal tail rotor assemblies on all my birds that have a driven tail. I have since switched the axe tail back to trailing edge control (rear steer) just for consistently, reversed the servo and now good to go. On all the helis I have seen, which in the grand scheme of things is not very many, All the main rotors and tail rotors are trailing edge controlled.
I am not at the stage where I am doing any kind of 3d flying, just basic forward flight, simple hovering and working into FFF. So my experience in flight is limited. Getting to be an expert mechanic tho.

My question to this thread is.... Is there a significant performance or mechanical advantage to using trailing edge control as opposed to leading edge control??

Bon appetite

JEMFLYER

MAIN MOTOR, TAIL MOTOR & BATTERY TEMPS

A while ago, in reply to a post by r william, I listed some of the temps I was getting on my Axe main motors.
They were in the range of 250 to 300 fahrenheit (f). I'm convinced now these reading were erroneous due to a
low battery.

After putting new batteries in my Duratrax IR thermo, the measured temp.s were much lower.

Flying the 910 mAh Electrifly pack until the Lipo Protection Module cuts the juice,
I'm averaging about 135f to 140f on the main motor, about the same on the battery
and about 115f to 120f on the tail motor. Ambient temp is 80 - 85.

The Duratrax thermo manual does point out that (accurate) measurements are not possible when the
low battery icon is showing, but hey, who reads the manual?

So as for the previous Rosanna Rosannadanna readings .......... never mind.