jster1963

THANK YOU very much for the suggestion. I would have just lived with a tight clutch, but not now.

Right now, the clutch is still tight. I had about ½ inch of the lining loose and sliding out of the clutch bell. I just jb welded that portion back in. It was so tight that when I accidentally had above idle throttle on start, all I could do was hold the head until I could throttle down the engine. The clutch was smoking after that.

Still it was tight so I sanded it some to loosen it. It still is tight (main blades turn at idle). I did not know it was a big deal to have it tight. I DO NOW!

I am ordering a new lining as we speak. After the receiver returns, I don’t want to pull the engine again, so I am going to redo the clutch while I’m waiting. Excellent suggestion!

Are there any tricks to removing the lining?

Thanks again…..jster

glydrjocky

Hello Jster,

I found the link below on liner replacement. I like the fact that they used Slow CA to bond the lining. JB weld is great stuff but I've found it difficult not to get a little squeezed out inside the bell when you press the taped clutch in. You have to use the JB weld sparingly but not too sparingly.


http://www.rchelimag.com/pages/howto.php?howto=4&page=2

Should work out quite nicely once its properly replaced.

Tony

jster1963

Tony,

Thank you so much!!!!! That is as awesome site. I go away on business tonite, but will do that the minute I get back (if my wife lets me). I will post updates as they happen. I can't wait to post how well my heli is flying.

Thanks again......jster

jster1963

Ok Guys,

My receiver has been fixed and is on its way here. The guy that worked on it says he replaced 3 filters. I sure hope this was my problem.

Now, before I do something dumb (again), I need to understand the clutch clearance. I cleaned the bell and installed the new clutch lining just like the link glydrjocky gave me.

However, my lining must be thicker than the article states. I could only get one layer of tape on, and not electrical tape. Using electrical tape, I could not get even one layer on. It was too thick to fit, so I used one layer of blue painters tape. It was thinner and would fit snug in the bell.

Now that the glue has dried, I have sanded the lining while being chucked in my drill. The clutch fits in with minimal gap. I can fit ONE sheet of paper between the clutch and the bell. Is this ok, or should I sand it to be able to fit 2 turns of electrical tape?

Please let me know before I install the engine....again. Thanks......jster

glydrjocky

Well, as long as the lining is bonded evenly all the way around and the clutch isnt dragging like it was before it should be okay. I think I got one wrap of electrical tape on mine with the newer lining and two with some older lining that came with my ZX. The main thing is that there is no high spots that can cause uneven clutch engagement and vibration.

Sounds like it should be okay. Even the article mentioned 1to 3 pieces of paper was good.

I'll go ahead and give you a thumbs up because I want to see you get that bird back in the air!

T

jster1963

Thanks glydrjocky,

That's the thing, the old lining did not appear to be dragging. It did have at least one high spot (the spot I jb welded back on) but did not seem to be dragging or tight. The new lining is evenly bonded. The gap is the same all the way around. It just seems relatively tight compared to the old lining.

With the new lining installed, I had to sand it to get the one sheet of paper to fit. I can get one sheet of paper around the clutch but there is no extra play. I just wanted to check what is better before I reinstalled the engine; 1, 2, or 3 sheets?

I want to get back in the air as well. I can't wait. My receiver should be here today or Monday. I won't be able to do anything until Monday anyway, so I thought I would pick everyone's brain before the reinstallation.

Thanks again, and more later......jster

jster1963

Hi Guys,

It is with great CAUTION that I say; I think my problem is solved.

I got the receiver back an installed it yesterday. The clutch lining was tight, so I sanded it until it seemed not to drag. I just gave it a test and all seems well. I did not fly it, I only started it, ran it up, and tested the range while it was tethered. The clutch DOES engage in idle but I hope that is because it is new.

During the test, the started shaft came loose so I stopped. I plan to tweek it tonight and give it a test fly tomorrow. I will run and entire take of fuel while it is tied down before I try to fly.

Keep your fingers crossed guys. More tomorrow. Take care........jster

glydrjocky

Good job so far Jster, Caution is a good avenue to take. I was going through some of my paper work that came with the piles of parts I've used rebuilding these Shuttles. Found a blurb about the gap between the lining and the clutch being 0.5mm. Of course yours is obviously a bit on the tight side and you may want to sand it down a bit more but I'm sure it will wear in over time.

Looks like you are on your way. Post some pics if you get a chance!

T

nitrohog

Great news, I can't wait to hear how the testing goes.

jster1963

As the world turns….continues…

I think the flying gods are against me. The starter shaft was not loose, it was the fan engine nut came loose and the taper collar was ground down on the inside. It is too loose now to use my Enya engine. I was wondering what all the “gold” flakes were all over my heli and the ground. It was shavings from my brass taper collar.

No problem, I went with plan “B” and installed my spare TT engine. When I went out for the test flight, the throttle cure was way off. It revved way too high but I thought I would try to get it airborne anyway, just to say I was flying again. It revved dangerously high so I gave up and planned to set up the throttle the next morning.

Today is the next morning. It was not the throttle curve; it was the throttle connection to the engine that came loose. I tightened it with locktite and went out to fly. It was 34 degrees and windy but I was determined to get it in the air.

It fired right up and then died. I tried it again and it died again. Now it won’t even fire. I changed the glow plug and it still won’t fire. On my power panel, I can’t get the glow plug igniter to go into the green, even on full power. I tried another glow plug igniter, and it still would not fire. I was “blue” cold so I called it a day.

1. Does anyone know where I can get an ENYA .35 taper collar? I have searched everywhere. I can only find it for the OS engine, or ENYA .60.
2. Does anyone know why I can’t get my engine to fire? Why can’t I get more power to through the igniter? Could it be it was too cold? I am a displaced Miami boy and have never flown in the cold.

Please help if you can. Thanks……jster
p.s. As soon as I figure out how to add pix, I will. I'm going to try to play with it tomorrow

jster1963

p.s. p.s.

My Shuttle schematic shows 0402-517 as the part number for the fan and has the taper collar with it. I am looking for just the taper collar. If I can't get just the collar, I will take all the fan parts as well. I can't find that either.

More later....jster

nitrohog

Heliproz has a good selection of collets, I would give them a call and see what they say. Glow engines can be a bit challenging to get started in the cold, but it usually comes into effect if it is under 30F. My remote glow igniter makes the meter read low as well if. If you put the igniter on a loose glow plug it should read normal, I have never had a starting problem caused by the inaccurate reading on my OS. To add pix just click upload pics (or files, I forget) and choose what you want.

glydrjocky

Sounds like the loose fan may have been your culprit with the radio interference the whole time. Metal to metal vibrations have been know to cause RF interference, so who knows. I had an enya fan and collet set up in my hands a few months back at Sheldons hobbies. They had placed their entire Hirobo parts selection up on Ebay stores for sale. Not sure if they still have any of those parts available but I'll take a look on ebay again.

Are you using a remote connection for your glow plug? If so it could be a broken wire, faulty ground, or as I have done once in the past, forgot to clip the wire back on the glow plug after replacing it.


Had some awesome flights with my Shuttle Plus this weekend. The OS .37 was running like a top! Beautiful California winter day of 83 degrees Brrrrrrrrrr (global warming and all).

Keep after it, your almost there.

Tony

jster1963

UNBELIEVABLE!! How can I keep getting multiple failures?

On a whim, I put the igniter on my other engine in the basement; same thing. So I hooked it up to my multimeter to check for low voltage. It was TOO HIGH! It was reading 10 VOLTS, not 1.2 volts. The glow plug portion of my power panel has failed.

Therefore, I was putting full 12v battery power to the glow plugs. It must have blown them right away. That is why the other igniter didn’t work either.

I will replace the glow plug, use my regular glow plug igniter and give it a try. It is 30deg outside with light snow right now. If it warms up a little today, I will give it another try.

Nitrohog, I will call heliproz. Tony, I’m all for global warming. I voted for it. I hope to have my chopper up and running so I can put it away until spring.

Thanks again guys, and more later…….jster
p.s. My pics are too big so I am resizing them and will post in a few mins.

jster1963

Here are my pics. I don't know how to put pics with captions, so here is what I am showing.

My low tech tie down. My clutch hi spots (the black spots). My clutch sanded down. And my taper collar.

jster1963

VICTORY AT LAST!!!!

Guys, we did it. THANK YOU SO MUCH for all of your help! I just walked in from flying. I use the term loosely because I hovered for about a minute so my wife could snap the pics.

DO NOT be fooled by the green in the photo. It is 30 degrees with off and on snow. It is snowing right now.

Here are some pics of my last 2 days.

I don’t have a lathe, so I used my dad’s drill press and movable vice. The exacto knife did not work so well, so I used the top of my electric started shaft to hold a “Drill Dr.” sandpaper tube. I clamped it in the vice and slowly lowered the spinning clutch. I checked clearances after a few passes, and sanded the clutch lining until it was perfectly uniform. It worked like a vertical lathe. NO MORE DRAGGING.

Ron’s heliproz had the correct tapper collar, so I am using my Enya engine again. Everything seems to be working correctly. I did have a bear of a time starting it in this weather. I had to start it in my basement, and then run upstairs and out thru the garage just to fly.

Thanks again……jster

mrc-hirobo

congrats, but it seems highly unusual to have to sand down the clutch liner unless it wasn't a stock Hirobo liner replacement.

make sure the clutch shoe-to-liner gap is less than 0.5mm. If it is more then this then you will over stress the shoes and they could break.

also, make sure you get a antenna tube for that antenna and isolate it from anything aluminum.

also, on the Enya, just a FYI, MRC no longer supports or carries Enya, so if you need plugs or engine parts you'll have to go to Enya or whomever is their current distributor.

good luck!

jster1963

Thanks Dan.

It is the Hirobo replacement liner, however, I have a "super duper" clutch. I can't remember what the name or part number is, but I do remember getting the most beefy clutch I could fit.

The gap is about 2 turns of electrical tape. When I say there is no dragging, I kinda lied. There is an ever so slight drag at idle. It slowly turns, but is easy to stop or hold. Before, It took holding it with a solid hand to keep it from getting up to full speed.

I'm just keeping the Enya engine while I am learning. I will use the stronger TT engine I have as I progress into more complex flying.

I will get an antenna tube as well. That is on my winter list of things to do.

Thanks again....jster

jster1963

P.S.

Dan,

This is the clutch lining. Also, I am using aftermarket skids that do not have holes for an antenna tube. Do you know what others are doing to add an antenna tube?

This is the battery setup I am using. I cut the stock Futaba battery connector, soldered it to my new battery.

SUMMARY.

1. I changed the glow plug; no help.
2. I changed the engine: no help
3. I changed the battery; seemed to help at first, then; no help.
4. I bypassed the swithc; no help.
5. I oiled all bearing involved; no help.
6. I changed the clutch lining; no help.
7. I reseated the crystal; no help.
8. I replaced the crystal; no help.
9. I sent my receiver in to overhaul. They changed 3 filters. BINGO! No problems.

In an odd way, it's a good thing that happened. I have learned a great deal along the way, and found many parts that needed to be replaced. Thanks again guys.

See ya in the air (in the spring)......jster

glydrjocky

Excellent jster!!!!

In this world of instant gratification I am happy to hear that you sought and found the patience and knowledge to overcome the obsticles in your path! Its awesome when a plan comes together! These Shuttles are amazing learning tools, well made, well engineered and never cease to amaze the folks at the field when you bust out your "museum piece".

As long as Hirobo continues to supply parts I will continue to keep mine airworthy, they have brought me true joy over the last year and a half+.

As for the antenna tube. I've used two of them and drilled a small hole at the front of the battery tray. I ran the antenna tube through the hole, under the frame, over the skids and out the back near the boom support. Connected the second tube to the first with a piece of silicon tubing and then secured it to the boom support with zip ties. I ran the antenna through a piece of fuel tubing then through the first tube and slipped the fuel tube over the end. makes for a clean secure installation that has given me no problems in many many flights.

I'll have to sent along a photo or two.

Tony

jster1963

Thank you Tony.

I plan to keep mine going as well. Hope to see your photos soon.

Take care......jster

glydrjocky

Here are a few pics of my antenna routing. I used the black tubing the hobby stores sell for R/C car antennas in assorted colors.

jster1963

Excellent! Thanks again. I will do the same thing as part of my winter "things to do" project.

Take care......jster

mrc-hirobo

a few things to note..

your mechanics do not appear to be centered on the aftermarket landing gear: the heli isn't going to take off straight up

the landing gear is very low: you may be prone to the tail fin striking the ground when you come in on an auto or fast landing. if the landing is hard enough and the ground hits the tail fin, this could cause damage

make sure you load check your receiver pack after EVERY flight! 1000mah is typically worth 2 flights, beyond that and the battery's capacity may be questionable. I'd recommend stepping buying a pack with as much capacity as you can afford. Batteriesamerica.com has a AA HR-3U 2700mah 4.8v pack for $28 with Futaba connector installed, or for less, a 2100mah pack with connector for $22. These are NiMH packs, while they have a higher internal resistance and self discharge, they have higher capacity then NiCD and if you load check them before you fly and charge them when you're all done for the day they'll last a good long time. I see a lot of people skimp on battery capacity and while most will get lucky and never have a problem, some people aren't so lucky.

if by chance you can't afford another receiver pack, just load check the battery before every flight and make sure its ok. I'd also recommend finding a Futaba load checker (bsr-2000 i think is the part number), you may be able to find one used. I have this tool and it works great from all 4.8, 6 and 7.2v packs.

as far as the antenna goes you can:
- you'll run the antenna down the opposite side of the heli from the muffler
- get two ball link ends (Hirobo ones are good for this)
- get two screws (Hirobo small silver cap head screws that are used to attach the link balls from the EX helis are good)
- drill one hole each in landing strut for the screws
- thread screws down through the strut and into the link ends
- run your antenna wire and tube through the link ends
- get a length of fuel tube that will act as a stand-off from the book or boom support and run a long, thin tie-wrap through the tube, around the boom support, back through the tube (it'll be tight, but will work), and then around the antenna tube and cinch tight and clip of the remainder with flush cutters
- all done

eventually, when and if you switch to 2.4GHz all this antenna routing stuff will have gone the way of the dinosaur

enjoy!

jster1963

I think the pic had a bad angle. It is centered and lifts off straight. GREAT heads up on the fast landings and autos. I have a larger tail fin I will use when I get into the fast landings. I never thought about that, I just liked it because it lowered the CG.

I understand about the batteries. I will look into getting the higher capacity ones. I didn't know I could use higher capacity batteries so I got the same capacity as the original rx pack. Also, I have the equipment for the NiCad and that is why I an trying to keep the same types of things.

In the mean time, I can recharge them in minutes with my fast field charger. It will fully top them off with my field battery while I refuel and rest.

I will try your technique as well to get the antenna routing as best I can get it. I will someday upgrade to the 2.4G system. The RC world sure did pass me by while I had my children.

Thank you for all of your help. Take care......jster