flyingagin

Don't a lot of us Tom?

Ken

BigTeeEldorado

Here is a couple penny's worth,

I came back to the hobby about three years ago after almost a 30 year hiatus. My first plane coming back was a Kadet because it was my fondest memory. I coupled that with a glow engine because it was what I knew better than gass or electric. Fast forward now three years later and the reality of the costs involved because I love the hobby and want more and more impose limitations. Bottom line, I go thru a gallon of glow fuel about every two or three weeks and I only get to fly on weekends. I starting to dread trips to the hobby store, they sting. That early decision to use glow engines kind of locked me in. I am the type to not buy another engine when I have one that will work just fine. People give them to me because I still fly glo. If you get where this is going, I kind of agree you should give the gasser serious consideration. The hobby can be expensive enough when you enjoy building like I do. $4.00 bucks per gallon or $25.00 bucks per gallon? Mmmmmmm?

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Tony,

If it's a two cycle (I don't know about the 4 cycles forgot to ask) if you buy one of those new glow plugs OS is using on their new gas engine that runs without an ignition pack you may be able to convert your existing engine to gasoline! You will need to replace the tank plug and fuel lines as well. My LHS has done it by replacing the glow plug in several .60 engines and the only down side was a loss of 200 rpm on the high end. He recommends a 20-1 ratio for non-ballbearing engines.

BigTeeEldorado

The big 4-strokes eat the most but I had not heard that. No Carb mods needed?? How small can you go?? Can you point me at some reading??

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

It was an experiment the local hobby shop did he stuck with .60 engines because that was the displacement of the OS engine. He did find the carb to a factor, it had to be able to do fine adjustments. The K&B .61 has been his biggest success, he tried a Super Tigre but the carb didn't have fine enough adjustment He is still working on 4 cycle engines next but so far has found it worked well if the engine has a gas carb on it but is still checking for engines with glow fuel carbs. The Saito 125 like the Super Tigre didn't have fine enough carb needle adjustment to be successful. He is of the opinion you won't really know until you try it with a specific engine. I will update as new data comes available.

BigTeeEldorado

Please do, I'm of the opinion anything is possible. Just found a post on UTube of a guy running a 25 size on gas using a glow plug. He had a gas carb on the engine though. There are going to be compromises but as long as you are aware of the limitations you can make a decision on if it is right for you.

It just occurred to me....I know guys used to "spike" their glow fuel with gas at races. Since you brought this up and straight gas is obviously possible using a glow carb, ever heard of anyone testing a usable mixture for sport flying to stretch the supply?

SigSenior

Thanks, Gary, for adding me. Thanks also for the welcomes, and more importantly, for the "2 cents" regarding the power plant options! With such a kind and forgiving plane, there's a VERY wide range of options. I hear ya Big-Tee regarding the glow fuel - if I go with internal combustion, it's just gonna have to be a gasser. I'm even seriously considering electric power configurations (even though I'm a bit out of my element with EP, however, I am quickly discovering that after just a couple of decades this sport has gone from an RC world to literally an RC UNIVERSE! LOL what with so many options now - what a great time to be in the hobby!). I'm going to keep reading, contemplating, and pondering about those vital things like power, prop size, radio choice, covering, etc. and for now, I'm going to start with what I know the most about.....and that's building the airframe. Upon initial review of the kit contents, I was really impressed with the quality of wood, and especially the die cutting - it is good. Maybe a little clean up here and there, but cuts are very clean. Sig's quality enough to maintain sharp dies I suppose - I remember some of the Guillow's and other kits of yester-year that were die cut when in fact it was a bit more like die-crushed! Building will be fun!!!

acdii

Here is a good example of fuel savings. The FG-11 in the T-clips, which can also fly the LT-40, flew 19 minutes and change, and used 3 ounces of gas. If I flew the LT-40 that long, it would have dead sticked on the 10 ounce tank at the 15 minute mark. The FG-11 is roughly a .62 4 stroke size, so if the Senior is a 60 size 4 stroke, the FG-11 would be a good engine for it. If you want bigger, the FG-14 would be perfect and is only $20 more. The 11 ran me $379. With fuel savings that will pay for itself in 2 years or less. I would have easily used a gallon of glow by now had I stuck the OS 70 on this plane.

Zor

[QUOTE=skylark-flier;11896671]Hey SigSenior!!

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>
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Now, one more item:

Zor! My friend, you've been around here longer than I have - and you keep asserting that you don't qualify because you don't have a Kadet yet. Nonsense, and I'm calling you on it.

I'm making an "executive decision" and doing what I should have done a long long time ago. Your SIG B'hoodnumber is 137, SIG Kadet B'hood number is 169 - - and that's an end to the argument. As I've said for a long time, all fans of SIG & the Kadet's are welcome here, and you most certainly DO qualify.

/QUOTE]

skylark-flier;
and the nice group of people maintaining this thread.

What a pleasant surprise as I am approaching my nano decade.
I felt a bit out of place in the group so I took some action.
Earlier today I went to the retailer that has been around here for many years and veridied that he does not carry Sig products.

I then went to the new retailer in the area and came home with some stuff.
Please see the attached pictures.

I have enough Ceconite light fabric, some genuine Randolph dope, some Sig-ment glue, 5 min and 30 min epoxy, mid-size DuBro pinned hinges, some different pitch 12" dia APC props and can get what I do not already have.

Some alredy planned modifications are to mount the engine inverted for a nicer looking nose and install barn-door ailerons.
I also already have a 7 channel receiver that works with my DX7 transmitter and a couple of suitable servos. ( two more needed ).

Hey fellows _ _ _ I now feel better to be a member of this fine group.

The build will be Zor style of course. Some fellows know what that means.

Zor

flyingagin

So Zor. This is going to be a rag wing?
Way cool and right on.

Ken

Zor

Hi Ken,

Yes _ _ _ it will be all covered witht the lightest weight Ceconite fabric and finished with Randolph dope which I have bought from rebuilders and recoverers of full size airplanes carrying people.

I spent the last couple of hours going initially through the manuals and the full size scale drawings. They are very well drawn and apparently well documented.

I had a look at the wood supplied and I am impressed with the good quality. The packaging is excellent and straight pieces 36 inches long are straight and not twisted and the sheets are flat. Some quick tests of hardness appear very good and of course the proper selection has to be done while building various areas.

CA glue will be used only for tacking when helpfull. It will be well doubled glued and fillets at all glued joints.

The box shows a weight of 6 lbs. It will end up heavier as I plan to install barn-door ailerons and their servos. If I go crazy I may also have flaps. In view of this I have acquired a more powerfull engine then showed on the box. They are showing .29 - .45 cu. in. glow or .35 - .45 cu. in. 4 stroke. I got a 2 stroke OS max 55AX with two ball bearings on the crankshaft. A bautiful small engine with its own muffler.

The tail assembly will not be cemented; it will be bolted for ease of setting up the decalage to my liking.
It will be medium dark green and light yellow with some white areas; dope left over from my Spectra.

I have lots of thinking to do _ _ _ I may use some semi-soft 1/16 or 3/32 balsa sheeting to improve the wing leading edge airfoil. I hate to see wing's leadng edge with the finish depressions between ribs.

Considering its overall dimentions it has larger tail surfaces than usually seen ( proportions ) thus the quoted ability to fly slow with good control.

I hope my choice of engine is adequate. It was recommended by a fellow that has built three of these beauties.

I do not know if I should open a build thread when I start building.

Cheers,

Zor

flyingagin

Zor that sounds like a fine build in the works.

How does the lightest weight Ceconite fabric compare in wight to the standard fabrics for our models? I have used silk in the past and will again. I have also used 100% polyester dress lining. See my avatar. So I really want to see your use of this Ceconite fabric. Sounds real cool.

Yeah the SR tails are big. And a transport issue.
You for sure are on the right track with a removable tail.

Man your engine selection should sure hauh some mail. These planes are very tolerant of higher weights.

My SR is already built and flying (about 14 year old) is going to get heavily modified in the future. And the tail is going to get sliced off and made removable. It is just going to be a good ways down the road. That was a pun for those in the know I am moving 1800 miles.

You are on the right track there buddie.

PLEASE keep us posted

Ken

spaceworm

Hi, I have been building and flying for over 65 years; still learning both. I have used tissue, silk, silkspan, monokote, solartex, 21st century fabric, ultracote, Koveral, and dress liner. I prefer the fabrics, with solartex in prefinished and Koveral for raw polyester. Please, though, what is the designation "1005 polyester dress lining"? is is a type or a manufacturer? Always looking for fresh ideas and processes. Thanks. Sincerely, Richard/ Kadet Brotherhood #96

acdii

Wow only a 45 4 stroke? Doesn't need much of a motor. The LT's take more engine. I found out I have 2 different Power25 motors, an 870kv and a 1000kv(not 100% on the numbers), so I can swap them out on the LT-25 when my daughter has stick time and can handle more speed.

flyingagin

Sorry about that "spaceworm" 100% is what it should have said.
It unfortunately is preshrunk to make it easier for the ladies sewing. But it will shrink some. But it shrinks very tight with nitrate dope. I did a long write up on using the polyester, somewhere. If you want, I can find it again.and link it. Next fabric I will use is back to silk and dope.

I figure it is maybe 2 months before I can touch a plane again other than packing them.

Ken

Zor

Hi flyingagin, spaceworm and all readers,

I never forget all the readers and viewers out there.

There is no doubt that woven fabrics are reinforcing a structure a lot more than easily tearing plastic film.
With fabric each thread like 80 or more thread per inch have to break in tension for the fabric to keep on tearing and cause more mechanical breakage.

The main advantages of using ' heat on plastic film ' is the speed of covering and the glossy finish.
Full size fabric covered airplanes usually do not have the glossy finish unless they are waxed and polished.
I do not wax my models so in the event of finish repair there is no wax to interfere with the dope. The dope can then fuse in previous application and the repair becomes invisible.

In my recent models I have used both ' polyester dress lining ' and ' Ceconite ' .
The Skybolt fuselage and tail are 'dress lining' an the wings are Ceconite.
The Spectra is all Ceconite and so will be the Kadet Sr.
At about 80 threads per inch there is plenty of transparency for the nitrate dope to pass through and bind to the structure already doped. The dress lining I bought for $4.95 a yard ( 54" wide) was marked 100% polyester.

Spaceworm. I figure, must be approaching my age having been flying for over 65 years.

flyingagin . . . I do not know what you refer to as "standard fabric". I was never tempted to use or try the 'so called fabric' from the LHS as I am afraid that the texture is not from weaving real threads. It appearance does not seem to have transparency for the dope (or paint) to go through and bind to the frame.

Wishing you the best possible good time on your move; it is always a chore to move particularly that far.
I hope it is a job transfer and you do not have to look for a new employment.
Perhaps a new employment is the reason to move.

Best to you both.

Zor

rcmichael

My Feedback: (21)

One of the best and classic trainers of all time! I converted mine with ailerons, made it even better! Look in ads I am selling all my Surplus kits including a kadet.

SigSenior

Zor, your planning process is quite similar to mine as I too have been thinking about sheeting those leading edges. Still undecided, but I'm counting on the plane telling me what she will need as I go! Also like your plan for fabric - Spaceworm, I've heard great things about Solartex and that's probably what I'm going to go with - plan to use the unfinished Silver for the whole bird. I've not used Solartex before and it is my understanding that it is a low temperature material. I will have to ensure that my standard iron can maintain the appropriate temperature. I think the weight and strength (and hopefully the look and feel) of the fabric will really do fair justice to the senior. It's my assumption that the fabric won't wrinkle as bad as the films with changes in temperature or environmental conditions such as direct sun light. I once left a film covered set of wings in my van on a hot day, then continued to leave it over night and the next day they looked like a shriveled up elongated prunes! Liked to never got it straightened back out. So, I've ordered some samples of the Solartex just to be sure of color, weight and qualities/characteristics. Thanks for sharing your plans Zor, and also your equipment line up. I see you went with 3.5 inch low bounce wheels which I think will be a great choice. I was tooling around on ebay right after your post and ended up going with a brand called Kavan (never heard of them -German made and not expensive at $12 pr.). Since I may be flying some from cow pastures (and hence cow patties, fire ant mounds, etc., etc., etc.) I went with a 4 inch wheel. I'm going to set it up with the old school traditional tricycle landing gear and the 4 inches will give me a little more clearance (as well as spare a prop or two should my thumbs not do exactly what my brain tells them to do on the landings!).

I plan to do the same on the glue. I'm going to go with a good quality interior/exterior wood glue (Gorilla wood glue, maybe Elmers) and only use the CA for spot tacking. I have known some who exclusively use CA, but that's a real weight adder that I want to avoid. Zor, as you mentioned, I'm going to more than adequately glue each joint, but what's a"fillet" at each joint?

Regards,
SS

Zor

Hi SigSenior,

a 'fillet" at each joint is as illustrated below.
If the fillets extend the same size as the parts in contact you then have 5 (five) times the binding area.

In an 11 (eleven) lbs model the total glue usage was less then 4 (four) ounces of weight.

Zor

SigSenior

Ah, I seeeee......well worth the extra effort in building, and the significance of the extra weight is nullified by the gain in airframe strength. I will incorporate this technique into my build. Thanks for sharing!

flyingagin

The thread is hopping again............Yeeehaaaa

Zor what i was referring to as standard fabric should have been worded better, well OK way better.
I really meant the iron on fabrics or even dope on fabrics, like Coverite.
That was my bad. I was in a bit of a hurry and under a lot of stress

No Zor I wish this was a job related move. Wife and I just became homeless again (3rd time this year) so are moving because of that. But my mother is rather elderly so needs our help at this point.

So that is why the stress levels are so very high.

Ken

WMB

My Feedback: (1)

Sign me up for the brother hood please!
I built this about 12 years ago, added a aileron wing a year or so after building it. Many touch and goes on it.
Got it ready to go and flew for the first time in about 4 years. Nice and easy, getting the thumbs back. Currently has OS55ax with 12x5 APC. First had a TT46 PRO. Flew for awhile with a Saito 45, barely flew it. Had a Saito 65 on it, that was the perfect match.
Anyhow, perfect beginner plane!

TomCrump

Unless I planned to over power a Kadet Senior, I see no reason to add the unnercessary weight of a sheeted leading edge. The model, as designed, has stood the test of time.

My preference would be to add ailerons, though, and remove some dihedral. I found my last 3 channel to be a boring flyer. My Senior, with ailerons, was a fun model to fly.

flyingagin

HA that is what mine sports.

Ken

flyingagin

I reduce the dihedral on mine by half and added strip ailerons. It could use even less dihedral.

Ken