Zor

I have not decided yet about a build thread but it is unlikely.

I certainly DO NOT intend to use this thread to report construction details.
There might be a Kadet Senior build thread somewhere that I am not aware of.

All I plan to do is occasionally post a few pictures of any progress I make once I start building.
I first have to finish another project before the winter arrives. First frost predicted for tonight.

I have read more about the litterature that comes with the kit and I have classified the wood sizes and formed groups.

Target date to start building is early December.

Pic of classified wood attached.

Zor

flyingagin

I built mine after I came back from the gulf war. I spent a month out in the garage building and unwinding.

Ken

Zor

Hello Tom,

Just my present thinking.

I do not know if the OS max 55AX is much overpowering.
I bought this engine on the recommendation of a fellow that built three Kadet Sr and used this engine.
Future will tell.

Concerning sheeting the top leading edge of the wings _ _ _ as I wrote before _ _ _ I hate to see the depressions between the ribs and I think that it would improve the airfoil making it more unform from root to tip. I will get the facts later today about the weight increase. I do not wish to guess when the facts are available.

I definitely will add ailerons. They will be barndoor style and still have to be designed.
From the research I have done since acquiring a Kadet Sr. I feel that this model needs some better wind penetration if not flown by a beginner.

If you happen to have details of the aileron structure, it would be appreciated to see that sharing.

Best regards Tom . . . .

Zor

flyingagin

Not suggesting you make any changes Zor, but something a lot of CL planes do to overcome the sag between ribs on the front part of the wing is to use half ribs. Saves a bunch of wight and eliminates a bunch of covering sag.

Ken

SigSenior

Great suggestion on the half ribs Ken. Are you thinking the addition of a half-rib between each full rib? Certainly worth pondering - and may just be the middle ground that would meet my objectives (rather than full or half wing sheeting). I may, or may not need to consider wing strengthening due to possible over-powering and weight considerations with my cursory EP plan. For their EP Sig Sport ARF, I see where Sig recommends a 530kv Himaxx motor weighing in at 275g (HC5018-530). Several builders of the senior have gone with Turnigy's 400kv G60 weighing in at 350g and they report an almost perfect CG balance and weight load with a 5000mAh battery brick. I'm looking also at the Scorpion S11-4025-440 with a kv of 440 and weight of 353g. This would swing a 13 inch prop and I have adequate clearance with the tricycle gear and 4 inch wheels. SO, related to wing strength, with a 350g +/- motor and a six cell 5000mAh battery.....should be pretty comparable to your OS 55AX and fuel tank cofig Zor. I'm building a one-piece wing as per the kit with no additions or alterations - so unless we are full bore wide open throttle, 90 degree dives and attempting to replicate the g-force of a jet fighter, I'm thinking the wing strength concern is just not a concern (especially with the fabric covering - even more strength). I'm a relaxed flyer - gentle and prefer a bit on the conservative, maybe even boring, type of flying) LOL - unlike Tom who enjoys a bit more spice in the skies! I figure if I become bored outta my gourd, I can always just build another wing. My goals are longer flight times, so with my relaxed flying style requiring mostly only quarter and half throttle - I'm thinking the possibly over-powered Scorpion config should do the trick. The appearance of some sag doesn't bother me that much (as long as we're talking about wings and NOT britches!) LOL. Hmmmmm....half ribs.......tapping index finger on chin.........thanks for the food for thought Ken

Regards,
SS

skylark-flier

Hey Zor! Glad to see y'r Senior here. Geez guys, I just saw a Sr this weekend that has almost exactly what all y'all are talking about here - 55AX, barn-door ailerons & half-ribs (actually, more like 1/4 ribs - top & bottom only, no center, almost like cap strips with a bit of body underneath) that was fabulous to see, both on the ground and in the air. Gotta tell ya, that extra bit of support in front of the spar is quite impressive looking and it DOES straighten out the covering (transparent red & blue) a great deal. The 55AX definitely gets her off the ground in minimum space with a very steep climbout, and then he did nearly everything else at about 1/2 throttle. He also dropped the dihedral to half and the plane was quite stable and happy flying around on her back.

Aileron design; I know I've seen something somewhere on that - might even be earlier on this thread. Gonna have to go back and take a look-see.

My perception might be off here, but I've noticed something with many of the Kadets I've seen fly. My own Mk-II flies great with her OS-40LA but is a bit sluggish on lift-off. Several of the LT40's I've seen have .45 engines on them and they're much more "lively" in all aspects. Most Seniors that I've seen have .45-.55 engines on them and they're even better. Seems that the bigger the design the better it flies on the same engine size - .45 seems to be the dead-center average. Your 55AX is going to be perfect, no doubt.

skylark-flier

WMB! Welcome to the SIG Kadet Brotherhood, glad to have you here. You're right, she's the perfect beginner plane, and a great plane overall for just having fun in the air. love 'em! We've gotcha logged in brotherhood, #170's all yours.

And with that, here's the SIG Kadet Brotherhood, as I've got it today:
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[TD]-[/TD]
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[TD]-[/TD]
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[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]WYDAH[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]122[/TD]
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[TD]DBD1[/TD]
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[TD]wildbills21[/TD]
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[TD]Carlos G[/TD]
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[TD]cforcht[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]ddewey[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]86[/TD]
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[TD]Red Kadet[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]146[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]rburke39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]27[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]dhal22[/TD]
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[TD]dirtrod[/TD]
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[TD]rc56[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: right"]28[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Thomas Pham[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]88[/TD]
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[TD]t4[/TD]
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[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]redjack[/TD]
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[TR]
[TD="align: right"]29[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]cubkadet[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]89[/TD]
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[TD]FlyerInOKC[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]149[/TD]
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[TD]rdgettler[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]30[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Greg Davis[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]90[/TD]
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[TD]DELTAFLY[/TD]
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[TD]daddyvinny[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="align: right"]31[/TD]
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[TD]CanDo[/TD]
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[TD]sharpe917[/TD]
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[TD]MartyPetriSr[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]32[/TD]
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[TD]gva1956[/TD]
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[TD]jollyroger[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]33[/TD]
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[TD]metaldriver_2[/TD]
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[TD]Cliffc[/TD]
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[TD]c-crunch[/TD]
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[TD]BigTeeEldorado[/TD]
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[TD]TomCrump[/TD]
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[TD]hiflyer15[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]37[/TD]
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[TD]EvanB[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]157[/TD]
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[TD]Fly North[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]38[/TD]
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[TD]Planejaw[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]98[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Major Tomski[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]158[/TD]
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[TD]dwaynenancy[/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD]Jim Branaum[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]159[/TD]
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[TD]oinoyou[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]40[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]cjet[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]100[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]WLM189[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]160[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Jersy Hank[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]41[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Murphey[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]101[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]skyraider71[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]161[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]flashpilot[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]42[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Sandyt[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]rc lifer[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]162[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Old_RC_Guy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]43[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]planedriver_2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]103[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]NM2K[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]163[/TD]
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[TD]TheComputerGeek[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]44[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]104[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]terrysigcolt[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]164[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]FloridaBeachFlyr[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]45[/TD]
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[TD]TimHendrix[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]105[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]plane-o-joe[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]165[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]aggieman[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]46[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]106[/TD]
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[TD]BobFE[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]166[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Renegade[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]47[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Mr-Punk[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]107[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]FLAPSDOWN[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]167[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]T-47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]48[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]rccrasher65[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]108[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]scttsprg[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]168[/TD]
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[TD]SigSenior[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]49[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]109[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]sbrillha[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]169[/TD]
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[TD]Zor[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]50[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Hrannar[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]110[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Mike Gretz[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]170[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]WMB[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]51[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]111[/TD]
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[TD]skyrat71[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]52[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Ken Kehlet[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]112[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]lumppi[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]53[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]oldfartpilot[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]113[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]bchapman[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]54[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Soaring Steve[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]114[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]scoooper[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]55[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]freefall2907[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]115[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]Jolly Popper[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]56[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]fix-n-fly[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]116[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]CNY_Dave[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]57[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]SigMan[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]117[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]rtn9105[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]58[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]eroc144[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]118[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]mbnt[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]59[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]nextofkin[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]119[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]crawler tech[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]60[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]ALT[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]120[/TD]
[TD]-[/TD]
[TD]308jockey[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

WMB

My Feedback: (1)

ZOR and Ken, When I built my aileron wing, I had much advise from the now defunct RC online.
To prevent the sagging of the covering in the fabric, I added another spar in front. 1/8x 1/8 maybe.
The barn door ailerons were easy. Build each wing wing half. Cut off the back part of the wing 5 ribs wide, some were going 6 wide. Cut forward to the secondary spar. Cut sand and glue to make it how it needs to be.
This was my first build and it was an easy mod. The advice I received was a bit more thorough than this.
My Senior weighs 7 lbs and the OS55ax is not too much. Same engine on a 4*40 shy of 5 lbs was incredible. Engine is running an APC 12x5, I might try an11x5.

The addiction continues, MikeB

Zor

Greetings,

I did some figurations.

A 3/32" x 4" x 36" medium hardness sheet of balsa weigh 33 grams.
Area 4" x 36" = 144 sq. in.

I need two sheets 4 1/2" x 33" to shape the airfoil from the leading edges to the front spar.
Area 4 1/2" x 33" = 148.5 sq. in.

The weight would be 33 x 148.5 / 144 = 34.03 grams
For two wings 34.03 x 2 = 68.06 grams or _ _ _
68.06 / 28.3 = 2.40 oz of weight.

Add 0.4 oz of glue = 2.8 oz
Remove a bit of sanding = 0.1 oz

Total weight increase become just about 2.70 oz of weight on a 6 lbs plane ( 96 oz of initial weight ).

I like a nice smooth wing leading edge with improved air flow and lift to drag ratio.

Zor

TomCrump

How do you plan to deal with the height difference that the sheeting will present ? It will protrude 3/32" above the ribs.

Zor

Hi Tom,

I will simply sand down the top of the ribs by 3/32" between the leading edge and the front of the main spar.

Zor

flyingagin

Yep you betcha. great compromise of foil preservation and low weight.

Ken

My internet is going to be pretty spotty for a bit. So if ya don't hear from that is why.

Zor

So I am doing some . . . L O L

Beside the idea of full length sheeting of the airfoil top between the leading edge and the main spar ( a weight increase of about 2.4 ounces ) I am considering building the wings to result in two pieces joined at the span center like I did on my Spectra.

That consist of forming a box at the root of the main spar and have a component that inserts into it. That insert consist of laminated hard ply and includes a dural ( aluminum ) in the lamination. It allows fabricating inserts with different dihedral angles. It becomes easy to separate the two wings for transportation.

I do not like the idea of assembling the wings to a fuselage with elastics on a 6 lbs ( or more ) model.
The dowels can stay and act as compression / tension component in the fuselage while the wings leading and trailing edges have tension component resisting separation in the event of nose impact ( tension at the trailing edge ) or a wing hitting an object ( tension at the leading edge ).

I have pictures of this idea as I did on my Spectra.

Just thinking _ _ _

Zor

TomCrump

In the 80'S a spar box was a common way to join the wings to the fuselage sides. The Kadet Senior has the wing sitting on top of the fuselage. Do you plan to modify the fuselage design, or will you bolt the joined wings to the fuselage top ?

Now, a more common method is to employ a wing tube and socket arraingement.

Zor

Hello Tom,

My idea of a box at the root of the wings only joins the wings together and determines the dihedral angle. It does not join the wings to the fuselage.

The wing's trailing edges have aluminum ( dural ) plates that go underneath the rear dowel.
Same principle as using dowels as often seen.

The wing's leading edges use two allen head screws going into two hind-nuts cemented underneath the front dowel area. A dural small plate is shaped to the leading edge shape and offers resistance to the leading edges pulling apart.

The whole arrangement is very light and has worked well up to now.

Zor

SigSenior

Zor, can you provide a photo of your wing arrangement? Though I will be building a one piece wing, I'm interested in knowing more about how you are attaching the wing to the fuse. I know I won't be using rubber bands - has to be a bolt on situation for sure. Interesting that you use aluminum plates on leading and trailing edges. The allen head screws into the leading edge seems secure, efficient and well engineered. Would love to see it. I've been thinking about some kind of top down bolt arrangement, but now rethinking that ......

Regards,
SS

TomCrump

If it were my model, I'd look at a simple dowel arraingement for the leading edge, and bolts through a ply plate on the TE.

Zor

Hello SigSenior,

The idea I am thinking of is because there is no material in front of the Kadet Sr leading edge into which dowels could be inserted.

The three attached pics are from my Spectra.

Zor

TomCrump

After looking at the plans, I don't think it would be too difficult to modify the fuselage to accept a dowel.

Zor

I am still in favour of having easily separable wings. A single 78 inches long wing is a bit inconvenient to transport.

A wing joining insert can be easily built to change the dihedral angle considering the desirability of ailerons.

The supplied windshield pattern on the drawings is a convenience well worth its existence. Fuselage modifications to use dowels ( one for each wing ) may not be easy while keeping the windshild pattern usable.

The equivalent of dowels at the rear and two screws at the leading edge is comparable to dowels at the front and screws at the rear. The two screws at the leading edge can have recessed heads and the only fuselage modification needed is a hard wood cross piece to install the hidden-nuts and the windshild pattern can be used and the fuselage to appear as intended in the design.

I did some preparation work for the wings. The bottom of the ribs have been touched with 320 grit on a long sanding bar including just touching up the edges to avoid any loose wood grain. In the pictures we can see that the W1 ribs have a lower top contour due to the sheeting called for between them on the drawings. That is what I plan to do to install a full span top leading edge between the leading edge and the main spar. A weight gain of 2.4 ounces.

Zor

tomclark

Zor. I recently scratch built a 90" Kadet. It is a fabulous flier. Sorry I did not take photos of the build for a construction thread, as it would have answered your questions. I did do a thread on a Goldberg Tiger scratch. If you take a look at these two links it will answer you questions about simple wing and aileron construction. I will not build a wing with a tiny leading edge, or without leading edge sheeting, and cap strips on the ribs. They are simply too flimsy. A more solid wing is far more suited for aerobatics.

Currently building a 102" version of an RCM Trainer and writing another scratch build thread. It shows wing dowel construction. Although it is not a Kadet, the methods are the same.

These photos show a bit of what is on the links. Hope this gives you some ideas for modifying your Kadet build.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

As I understgand it if you keep the glow fuel glow plug powered up while running but the engine dies when the power is removed. this plug designed for gasoline does NOT have the standard platinum coil glow fuel plugs have.

SigSenior

Tom, Zor: Thanks for the photos! Really helpful! When I get to that stage in the build process, I will share my wing attachment arrangement as well. Lotsa ways to skin a cat, lotsa ways to attach a wing!

Zor

Sharing pictures is always appreciated.

Thanks _ _ _

Zor

BigTeeEldorado

The video on YouTube showed the engine still running after the power was removed from the glo plug, and he did throttle up and down a few times. There was no mention of the type of plug he was using but I suspect his success is more a factor of the mixture control a gas carb has over the standard glo carb. A video clip that shows it is possible to make the engine run is a far cry from any confirmation it is practical but the whole experiment is interesting to me so keep it coming. I'm not beyond a few experiments myself.