Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
12-13-2011, 07:39 AM
#101
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
I also made a modification / repair to the Stab structure on my JL Hawk, Im in no way trying to discredit Jet Legend as a manfacturer, I have first hand experience in an Stab failure on a Jet Legend Hawk, but the situation was remedied very quickly, Im literally just posting to show the modification we made and the improvement we thought it would have made to a great flying airframe. I believe, although the Elevator Linkage is a very robust and impressively made unit, the Universal Joints that transfer the Servo drive directly into the Tail Plane Clamps are the main weakness point on this model. Even after Thread Locking the M3 Grub Screw into the Universal Joint, it was aparent after around 10 - 11 flights, this had worked loose allowing a pitch change on the Tail Plane eventually leading to flutter.
In order to rectify this, we removed the M3 Grub Screw and removed the Universal Joint pins, then ground Flats on to each of the pins and tapping the opposing the side of the Universal Joint to allow for two M3 Steel Cap Head Bolts to be securely fixed into the linkage on both of the Joints, we found this really improved the integrity of the linkage under load.
Even though we believed the problem would have been solved by the small "fix" / modification" above, literally for peace of mind, we decided to modify the internal Stab Structure also, this was done in three stages.
1. We drilled a series of small (1mm) holes in the root of each Stab in a 40mm vercinity around the Stab Securing Pin and dripped Thin Cyano through each hole in an attempt to stiffen up the woodwork Jet Legend had used in the internal structure.
2. We then made a box around each Stab (very similar to the process used when making a Fibre Glass Cast / Mold), placed each Stab in a thin Polythene Bag and poured casting plaster into each of the Box Sections we had made, thus giving us a Strong Cast of each Stab component. Then dremmelled two small holes in the root of each stab and poured Polyeurethane Foam into the stucture before sealing each hole temporarily to cut the oxygen supply to the chemical, enabling the foam to set with a solid crusty skin throughout the structure.
3. Mass Balancing both Horizontal Stabilers around the Neutral Point / MAC position, when held within the Jet Legend Linkage, ensuring both Stabs were of the same weight aswell to avoid any excess load on each Stab.
Although this was never tested, (Believe it or not, through no fault of the model, the Turbine Flamed Out on the Maiden Take Off, resulting in a damaged Wing), I think this hopefully would have been a successful fix. Like I mentioned earlier, I am in no way looking to discredit any manufacturer, I honestly do believe that any manufacturer can have failures relating to Structure and Build.
Hope this helps anyone who is interested.
In order to rectify this, we removed the M3 Grub Screw and removed the Universal Joint pins, then ground Flats on to each of the pins and tapping the opposing the side of the Universal Joint to allow for two M3 Steel Cap Head Bolts to be securely fixed into the linkage on both of the Joints, we found this really improved the integrity of the linkage under load.
Even though we believed the problem would have been solved by the small "fix" / modification" above, literally for peace of mind, we decided to modify the internal Stab Structure also, this was done in three stages.
1. We drilled a series of small (1mm) holes in the root of each Stab in a 40mm vercinity around the Stab Securing Pin and dripped Thin Cyano through each hole in an attempt to stiffen up the woodwork Jet Legend had used in the internal structure.
2. We then made a box around each Stab (very similar to the process used when making a Fibre Glass Cast / Mold), placed each Stab in a thin Polythene Bag and poured casting plaster into each of the Box Sections we had made, thus giving us a Strong Cast of each Stab component. Then dremmelled two small holes in the root of each stab and poured Polyeurethane Foam into the stucture before sealing each hole temporarily to cut the oxygen supply to the chemical, enabling the foam to set with a solid crusty skin throughout the structure.
3. Mass Balancing both Horizontal Stabilers around the Neutral Point / MAC position, when held within the Jet Legend Linkage, ensuring both Stabs were of the same weight aswell to avoid any excess load on each Stab.
Although this was never tested, (Believe it or not, through no fault of the model, the Turbine Flamed Out on the Maiden Take Off, resulting in a damaged Wing), I think this hopefully would have been a successful fix. Like I mentioned earlier, I am in no way looking to discredit any manufacturer, I honestly do believe that any manufacturer can have failures relating to Structure and Build.
Hope this helps anyone who is interested.
12-13-2011, 10:31 AM
#102
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: kordi
[img][/img]Hi Jeff,
Here is the pictures from the elevator that failed.
Here is the pictures from the elevator that failed.
I am very sorry to see that a manufacturer like jet legend will not stand up for his plane and will not replace the problematic construction but blame others.
I hope that the other pilots here can see the balsa block that is so soft that can be distorted with my finger nail.
And you can see the wood split clean were the pin were.
[img][/img]
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9335/11122011225.jpg
[img][/img]
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9335/11122011225.jpg
JL should replace the kit on this - bare min. I can't believe they would use balsa there. I'm starting to wonder if my GJC-JL F-16 (which hasn't been maidened yet) is going to have the same issues. I know no one has reported this issues but if what is to say they they don't use the same type of construction?
12-13-2011, 10:53 AM
#103
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande
Jeff for God's sake mate how you can blame the pilot when they use balsa there on a turbine powered model.
At the end of the day this guy must get a full refund for what he paid for the model and free repair/replace of turbine, servos, receivers.
ORIGINAL: jeff sewell
.... I believe that in a lot of cases of break-up of an airframe (not just JL but others) that pilots show no sympathy to the structure in flight.
Cheers
Jeff
.... I believe that in a lot of cases of break-up of an airframe (not just JL but others) that pilots show no sympathy to the structure in flight.
Cheers
Jeff
At the end of the day this guy must get a full refund for what he paid for the model and free repair/replace of turbine, servos, receivers.
Andy - Just my $.02/worth, but it might be time well spent to go in there and take a look, re-work if needed. You'd hate for your jet to start coming from together to apart in a hard turn, especially if turning inbound...picture KY Jets
Sluggo
12-13-2011, 10:57 AM
#104
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
Yep,
Now imagine if when the customer opened the box (or, more preferably, before they shipped) and looked at the included construction photos of the critical areas, he had seen the balsa there instead of hard-wood. He might have had a moment of pause...
Now that I've said that, balsa isn't in itself a no-no necessarily in that application...depending on what it's tied to. But my point is that if they had to supply the pics I've been talking about, there would be no mystery-anxiety. After a while, when customers started rejecting airplanes because they weren't satisfied with the construction or materials in the critical areas, then maybe they'd start doing it right.
Now imagine if when the customer opened the box (or, more preferably, before they shipped) and looked at the included construction photos of the critical areas, he had seen the balsa there instead of hard-wood. He might have had a moment of pause...
Now that I've said that, balsa isn't in itself a no-no necessarily in that application...depending on what it's tied to. But my point is that if they had to supply the pics I've been talking about, there would be no mystery-anxiety. After a while, when customers started rejecting airplanes because they weren't satisfied with the construction or materials in the critical areas, then maybe they'd start doing it right.
12-13-2011, 11:00 AM
#105
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
Yellowcraft,
You are right. But when the customer doesnt know the matter and build the jet, and in the first fly, occurs a crash with total lost !!!!!! I think we have to alert in every friend that we know, because its very very dangerous.
Luis
You are right. But when the customer doesnt know the matter and build the jet, and in the first fly, occurs a crash with total lost !!!!!! I think we have to alert in every friend that we know, because its very very dangerous.
Luis
12-13-2011, 11:32 AM
#106
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
Now imagine if when the customer opened the box (or, more preferably, before they shipped) and looked at the included construction photos of the critical areas, he had seen the balsa there instead of hard-wood. He might have had a moment of pause...
...After a while, when customers started rejecting airplanes because they weren't satisfied with the construction or materials in the critical areas, then maybe they'd start doing it right.
Now imagine if when the customer opened the box (or, more preferably, before they shipped) and looked at the included construction photos of the critical areas, he had seen the balsa there instead of hard-wood. He might have had a moment of pause...
...After a while, when customers started rejecting airplanes because they weren't satisfied with the construction or materials in the critical areas, then maybe they'd start doing it right.
As for the concern that the manufacturer could be dishonest and show pics that don't truly reflect actual assembly, if failures began to happen and this practice was 'exposed', so to speak, then this dishonest behavior should be described very publically and loudly on these forums. I would hope that the US distributors would then either drop that manufacturer, or bring even more pressure on them to clean things up.
Sluggo
12-13-2011, 01:05 PM
#107
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: VF84sluggo
Great point, Shaun.
As for the concern that the manufacturer could be dishonest and show pics that don't truly reflect actual assembly, if failures began to happen and this practice was 'exposed', so to speak, then this dishonest behavior should be described very publically and loudly on these forums. I would hope that the US distributors would then either drop that manufacturer, or bring even more pressure on them to clean things up.
Sluggo
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
Now imagine if when the customer opened the box (or, more preferably, before they shipped) and looked at the included construction photos of the critical areas, he had seen the balsa there instead of hard-wood. He might have had a moment of pause...
...After a while, when customers started rejecting airplanes because they weren't satisfied with the construction or materials in the critical areas, then maybe they'd start doing it right.
Now imagine if when the customer opened the box (or, more preferably, before they shipped) and looked at the included construction photos of the critical areas, he had seen the balsa there instead of hard-wood. He might have had a moment of pause...
...After a while, when customers started rejecting airplanes because they weren't satisfied with the construction or materials in the critical areas, then maybe they'd start doing it right.
As for the concern that the manufacturer could be dishonest and show pics that don't truly reflect actual assembly, if failures began to happen and this practice was 'exposed', so to speak, then this dishonest behavior should be described very publically and loudly on these forums. I would hope that the US distributors would then either drop that manufacturer, or bring even more pressure on them to clean things up.
Sluggo
Kirk
12-13-2011, 02:27 PM
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: DelGatoGrande
...and 5ooo down to the drain.
Starting from here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10281800
this was my friends toy and he had fun with it for 10 flights until the elevator deside to leave the aircraft a week ago.
Why i made this post?...i think as a modeler i owe feedback/advice to modelers as when i started and had it from them.
The ones you will find diferent reasons from that because i represent another manufactor,go ahead and nock your self out...i realy dont care.
..forgive my poor english
...and 5ooo down to the drain.
Starting from here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10281800
this was my friends toy and he had fun with it for 10 flights until the elevator deside to leave the aircraft a week ago.
Why i made this post?...i think as a modeler i owe feedback/advice to modelers as when i started and had it from them.
The ones you will find diferent reasons from that because i represent another manufactor,go ahead and nock your self out...i realy dont care.
..forgive my poor english
12-13-2011, 04:32 PM
#109
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: k_sonn
Maybe a distributor should randomly sacrifice one of these every now and then and open it up to inspect the internal quality. That's how quality control is done in manufacturing.
Kirk
Maybe a distributor should randomly sacrifice one of these every now and then and open it up to inspect the internal quality. That's how quality control is done in manufacturing.
Kirk
Sluggo
12-13-2011, 06:08 PM
#111
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
Ok,
Here's my first draft. I'm sure you guys can add some helpful points. Imagine this digitally signed by every jet guy who buys ARF jets, showing up in the mailboxes of all the factory owners...
Dear Jet Model Manufacturer,
In the interest of furthering the good relations between us, the end-users and consumers of your fine products and you, the manufacturers of our beloved ARF jet models, we offer you this notification of a critical change in what we consider acceptable minimum standard requirements for ARF jet models built in your factory.
Henceforth, all newly constructed Ready-to-Fly or Almost-Ready-to-Fly remotely-controlled model aircraft intended for use with turbine engines shall be shipped with the following required photo documentation:
1. Clear color photos of main wing internal construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, hard-points, hinge-blocks, landing gear mounts and/or any other critical structures).
2. Clear color photos of tail plane construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, shaft bearing blocks, anti-rotation hardware, hinge blocks (in the case of vertical fins or fixed stabilizers with hinged elevators) etc.).
3. Clear color photos of any area or apparatus that is considered a critical structure and is not visible to the end user without extraordinary inspection (such as cutting into closed structures).
We feel that this will go a long way toward eliminating guess-work; providing peace-of-mind for the end-user and the manufacturer; reducing adversarial differences-of-opinion as to the cause or nature of a failure; allowing the end-user to make a more informed decision on what, if any, modifications and/or enhancements are necessary; and increasing the size and longevity of your customer base by increasing the margin of safety in the operation of these models.
We understand that this requirement will add a small amount of time and work to your process, so we will not object to a nominal surcharge for the photo-documentation. Please understand, however, that this photo-documentation needs to be of each individual model and not a batch, general sample, etc. The end-user needs to be furnished with the above-described photographs for his specific, individual model. Again, this documentation shall be considered a necessary included component to the shipped model as much as a fuselage or wing is. It is our intention to only buy models from those factories that provide this documentation with each kit or ARF they sell.
Respectfully, the undersigned members of the jet-modelling community..
Ok, whaddaya think?
Here's my first draft. I'm sure you guys can add some helpful points. Imagine this digitally signed by every jet guy who buys ARF jets, showing up in the mailboxes of all the factory owners...
Dear Jet Model Manufacturer,
In the interest of furthering the good relations between us, the end-users and consumers of your fine products and you, the manufacturers of our beloved ARF jet models, we offer you this notification of a critical change in what we consider acceptable minimum standard requirements for ARF jet models built in your factory.
Henceforth, all newly constructed Ready-to-Fly or Almost-Ready-to-Fly remotely-controlled model aircraft intended for use with turbine engines shall be shipped with the following required photo documentation:
1. Clear color photos of main wing internal construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, hard-points, hinge-blocks, landing gear mounts and/or any other critical structures).
2. Clear color photos of tail plane construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, shaft bearing blocks, anti-rotation hardware, hinge blocks (in the case of vertical fins or fixed stabilizers with hinged elevators) etc.).
3. Clear color photos of any area or apparatus that is considered a critical structure and is not visible to the end user without extraordinary inspection (such as cutting into closed structures).
We feel that this will go a long way toward eliminating guess-work; providing peace-of-mind for the end-user and the manufacturer; reducing adversarial differences-of-opinion as to the cause or nature of a failure; allowing the end-user to make a more informed decision on what, if any, modifications and/or enhancements are necessary; and increasing the size and longevity of your customer base by increasing the margin of safety in the operation of these models.
We understand that this requirement will add a small amount of time and work to your process, so we will not object to a nominal surcharge for the photo-documentation. Please understand, however, that this photo-documentation needs to be of each individual model and not a batch, general sample, etc. The end-user needs to be furnished with the above-described photographs for his specific, individual model. Again, this documentation shall be considered a necessary included component to the shipped model as much as a fuselage or wing is. It is our intention to only buy models from those factories that provide this documentation with each kit or ARF they sell.
Respectfully, the undersigned members of the jet-modelling community..
Ok, whaddaya think?
12-14-2011, 03:05 AM
#112
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
George,
I didn't blame Kordi...
All I'm saying is that a model pilot has no idea of the structural limits of an airframe and must therefore consider this when flying and act appropriately.
You even said something about this yourself...
I have already gone through this issue of break up previously with the F20 (MAC) and the BAe Hawk and helped to secure some kind of compensation - including alot at my own expense.
I fly these jets too - exclusively JL actually - and I too want them to be structurally sound as I have a lot of money invested in my jets too. When this kind of thing happens I also want to find the best resolution and will lobby the manufacturer to, where possible, compensate or at least ensure an upgrade to the design.
However, also consider this - I have sold personally around 100 T45's in the UK and elsewhere since it's introduction. This is the only T45 that I'm aware of that has failed due to this fault; sure, there have been crashes, inevitable in this sport, mainly dumb thumbs or equipment failure. So that accounts for 1% of my sales due to this fault that I know of. JL have probably sold many times that number worldwide. This makes it a very popular jet. So why do we not hear about more crashes of this type if the design is fundamentally flawed? Do we think that some pilots just don't bother reporting them? As a dealer I see both sides of the story and from Jetlegend's point of view they hear of a very small percentage of units crashing due to a suspected design failure. This along with the fact there is no control over the product's assembly or piloting after the customer recieves it puts the manufacturer in a difficult position. As far as he is concerned from producing so many different jets using a similar design with thousands of successful flights then how can the design be flawed? This is why you often see reticence from the manufacturer.
Note also that this type of stab design/materials choice is not just JL design but used across other popular manufacturers.
I think there must be more elegant and stronger solution to this design. A harder wood block would be an improvement but the separation of the stab appears to occur under high load between the glue and the fibre of the material on the block/shaft/block sandwich.
For saying all this I think the petition is a good idea. It will help us all by allowing us to have confidence in the products we buy.
I still think there will always be instances of failure in airframes due to exceedance of airframe design limits anyway...
Of course dialogue with the manufacturer is ongoing...
Jeff
I didn't blame Kordi...
All I'm saying is that a model pilot has no idea of the structural limits of an airframe and must therefore consider this when flying and act appropriately.
You even said something about this yourself...
Now if you insist,bring me one for a ride with a P60 , give me one minute till i get airborne and i can give you a failure.
I fly these jets too - exclusively JL actually - and I too want them to be structurally sound as I have a lot of money invested in my jets too. When this kind of thing happens I also want to find the best resolution and will lobby the manufacturer to, where possible, compensate or at least ensure an upgrade to the design.
However, also consider this - I have sold personally around 100 T45's in the UK and elsewhere since it's introduction. This is the only T45 that I'm aware of that has failed due to this fault; sure, there have been crashes, inevitable in this sport, mainly dumb thumbs or equipment failure. So that accounts for 1% of my sales due to this fault that I know of. JL have probably sold many times that number worldwide. This makes it a very popular jet. So why do we not hear about more crashes of this type if the design is fundamentally flawed? Do we think that some pilots just don't bother reporting them? As a dealer I see both sides of the story and from Jetlegend's point of view they hear of a very small percentage of units crashing due to a suspected design failure. This along with the fact there is no control over the product's assembly or piloting after the customer recieves it puts the manufacturer in a difficult position. As far as he is concerned from producing so many different jets using a similar design with thousands of successful flights then how can the design be flawed? This is why you often see reticence from the manufacturer.
Note also that this type of stab design/materials choice is not just JL design but used across other popular manufacturers.
I think there must be more elegant and stronger solution to this design. A harder wood block would be an improvement but the separation of the stab appears to occur under high load between the glue and the fibre of the material on the block/shaft/block sandwich.
For saying all this I think the petition is a good idea. It will help us all by allowing us to have confidence in the products we buy.
I still think there will always be instances of failure in airframes due to exceedance of airframe design limits anyway...
Of course dialogue with the manufacturer is ongoing...
Jeff
12-14-2011, 03:43 AM
#113
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
Shaun
Here are my edits…
I added some points for traciability
Purchase Agreement
All newly constructed Ready-to-Fly or Almost-Ready-to-Fly remotely-controlled model aircraft intended for use with turbine engines shall be assigned a unique airframe serial number; each critical component shall be marked with the unique airframe serial number and shall be shipped with the following required photo documentation:
1. Clear color photos of main wing internal construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, hard-points, hinge-blocks, landing gear mounts and/or any other critical structures) with the airframe serial number clearly shown.
2. Clear color photos of tail plane construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, shaft bearing blocks, anti-rotation hardware, hinge blocks (in the case of vertical fins or fixed stabilizers with hinged elevators) etc.) with the airframe serial number clearly shown.
3. Clear color photos of any area or apparatus that is considered a critical structure and is not visible to the end user without extraordinary inspection (such as cutting into closed structures) with the airframe serial number clearly shown.
It is understood that this requirement will add a small amount of time to your process, so a nominal surcharge for the photo-documentation package should be established prior to the acceptance of the order by both parties. Please understand, however, that this photo-documentation needs to be of each individual model and not a batch, general sample, etc. The purchaser needs to be furnished with the above-described documentation for the specific, individual model with the unique airframe serial number clearly shown in the photo documentation. Again, this documentation shall be considered a necessary included component to the shipped model as much as a fuselage or wing is.
Note: A purchase agreement shall not be made unless this documentation is supplied with each kit or ARF, failure to supply the documentation package will result in a rejected shipment and a full refund of the purchasers funds.
Here are my edits…
I added some points for traciability
Purchase Agreement
All newly constructed Ready-to-Fly or Almost-Ready-to-Fly remotely-controlled model aircraft intended for use with turbine engines shall be assigned a unique airframe serial number; each critical component shall be marked with the unique airframe serial number and shall be shipped with the following required photo documentation:
1. Clear color photos of main wing internal construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, hard-points, hinge-blocks, landing gear mounts and/or any other critical structures) with the airframe serial number clearly shown.
2. Clear color photos of tail plane construction prior to installation of the sheeting/skin (showing spars, ribs, shaft bearing blocks, anti-rotation hardware, hinge blocks (in the case of vertical fins or fixed stabilizers with hinged elevators) etc.) with the airframe serial number clearly shown.
3. Clear color photos of any area or apparatus that is considered a critical structure and is not visible to the end user without extraordinary inspection (such as cutting into closed structures) with the airframe serial number clearly shown.
It is understood that this requirement will add a small amount of time to your process, so a nominal surcharge for the photo-documentation package should be established prior to the acceptance of the order by both parties. Please understand, however, that this photo-documentation needs to be of each individual model and not a batch, general sample, etc. The purchaser needs to be furnished with the above-described documentation for the specific, individual model with the unique airframe serial number clearly shown in the photo documentation. Again, this documentation shall be considered a necessary included component to the shipped model as much as a fuselage or wing is.
Note: A purchase agreement shall not be made unless this documentation is supplied with each kit or ARF, failure to supply the documentation package will result in a rejected shipment and a full refund of the purchasers funds.
12-14-2011, 07:56 AM
#115
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: HeavyMo
Great Ideas,not gonne happen.....
Great Ideas,not gonne happen.....
Hi,
Sadly, you're probably right. The question is... WHY NOT??? If everyone who buys these things signed on to something like this, it would happen that night.
12-14-2011, 08:16 AM
#116
My Feedback: (43)
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: k_sonn
How would you know for sure if the pictures sent are of the same airframe you were purchasing?
The only real way to have piece of mind is to build the plane yourself.
Kirk
How would you know for sure if the pictures sent are of the same airframe you were purchasing?
The only real way to have piece of mind is to build the plane yourself.
Kirk
12-14-2011, 08:48 AM
#117
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
Hi,
Sadly, you're probably right. The question is... WHY NOT??? If everyone who buys these things signed on to something like this, it would happen that night.
ORIGINAL: HeavyMo
Great Ideas,not gonne happen.....
Great Ideas,not gonne happen.....
Hi,
Sadly, you're probably right. The question is... WHY NOT??? If everyone who buys these things signed on to something like this, it would happen that night.
12-14-2011, 09:12 AM
#118
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: RCISFUN
I also ask why not, it is called "Terms and Conditions of sale", if the manufacture takes exception to the terms above, then it is quite simple, don't purchase the product.
ORIGINAL: YellowAircraft
Hi,
Sadly, you're probably right. The question is... WHY NOT??? If everyone who buys these things signed on to something like this, it would happen that night.
ORIGINAL: HeavyMo
Great Ideas,not gonne happen.....
Great Ideas,not gonne happen.....
Hi,
Sadly, you're probably right. The question is... WHY NOT??? If everyone who buys these things signed on to something like this, it would happen that night.
I would sign the updated "Terms and Conditions of Sale"
Kirk
12-16-2011, 01:18 AM
#119
RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
Jeff
i have alot of faith to the British after sales castomer service that comes secont to none,spesialy when castomer is right.
This why i sed to Kordi that he is very lucky he got his toy from you.
...goodluck with the dialogue mate
i have alot of faith to the British after sales castomer service that comes secont to none,spesialy when castomer is right.
This why i sed to Kordi that he is very lucky he got his toy from you.
...goodluck with the dialogue mate
12-16-2011, 12:18 PM
#120
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RE: Heads up elevator failure JetLegent Hawk
ORIGINAL: Boomerang1
Xair, would you like to elaborate on the spec of the tubing?
Reason: I'm scratch building a 339 & am using an ali wing tube but the spec is 'T4' tubing, not the usual 'T5'
so I'm assuming it's a little softer. It was just a matter of using what was available.
The wall thickness is 1.5 mm x 32 mm dia & it's also being used as the air reservoir for the retracts.
Fatigue issues? The model is smaller than the SM, about 2 me span.
Seems like brick outhouse material to me but you obviously know more about the aviation use of ali tube than me. - John.
thickness of the wall is not the issue, I work with ultralights with main wing spars that have only a 1mm wall thickness but the spec of the tubing makes all the difference.
Reason: I'm scratch building a 339 & am using an ali wing tube but the spec is 'T4' tubing, not the usual 'T5'
so I'm assuming it's a little softer. It was just a matter of using what was available.
The wall thickness is 1.5 mm x 32 mm dia & it's also being used as the air reservoir for the retracts.
Fatigue issues? The model is smaller than the SM, about 2 me span.
Seems like brick outhouse material to me but you obviously know more about the aviation use of ali tube than me. - John.
T6 spec is what you want tensile strength is a bit higher but yield strength is normally double that of T4, not sure where you can go in greece but what you want to use is ultralight/microlight/homebuilders tubing or what is known as structural aluminium 6082T6 or 6061T6
