Hawk crash
09-22-2013, 03:59 PM
#251
Gjhinshaw,
I doubt that anyone is going to be sued for discrimination. FEJ is not a protected class or group that I'm aware of. Again, I think you're missing the point. Here's a little story:
I twice had occasion to assemble FEJ ARFs (for customers) where I soon became aware that they could not possibly have ever attempted to assemble one themselves before sending the kits out the door. In both cases, major components could not fit inside the airplane together (like the pipe could not physically exist inside the plane along with the bypass that came with it). In one case, the stab servo and the fin spar were supposed to occupy the same space at the same time. After going through a lot of fits and starts to fix everything and get the ARF assembled (let alone airworthy), I came to the conclusion that I didn't need to see the entire lineup to know that I didn't trust the people who sent that stuff out the door to do anything else. I also figured if most of the air cylinders involved with those two planes failed, and the landing gear NEVER worked in the air, then it stood to reason that I the rest of their work was probably the same. So the point is, you don't need to see a failure in every single offering by a given company to know they've got issues. I think at this point, there's enough clear evidence. BTW, I think it's smart that you removed FEJ from your signature line...however that came about.
I doubt that anyone is going to be sued for discrimination. FEJ is not a protected class or group that I'm aware of. Again, I think you're missing the point. Here's a little story:
I twice had occasion to assemble FEJ ARFs (for customers) where I soon became aware that they could not possibly have ever attempted to assemble one themselves before sending the kits out the door. In both cases, major components could not fit inside the airplane together (like the pipe could not physically exist inside the plane along with the bypass that came with it). In one case, the stab servo and the fin spar were supposed to occupy the same space at the same time. After going through a lot of fits and starts to fix everything and get the ARF assembled (let alone airworthy), I came to the conclusion that I didn't need to see the entire lineup to know that I didn't trust the people who sent that stuff out the door to do anything else. I also figured if most of the air cylinders involved with those two planes failed, and the landing gear NEVER worked in the air, then it stood to reason that I the rest of their work was probably the same. So the point is, you don't need to see a failure in every single offering by a given company to know they've got issues. I think at this point, there's enough clear evidence. BTW, I think it's smart that you removed FEJ from your signature line...however that came about.
09-22-2013, 04:00 PM
#252
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Gary,
Your posts are completely absurd and without sound basis in thought.
David S
Your posts are completely absurd and without sound basis in thought.
Andy,
I understand what you are saying....BUT...... Now "YOU" as a CD could be sued for Discrimination! BS! The legal basis for discrimination remains only those based upon race, sex, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. you know it will happen.....
I have been working on my FEJ, Yes... The one I have for sale, and I have completely redone the Whole tail section and elevator's. Not much left in there of there's..... I know I sell FEJ, Haven't sold one yet, ....BUT... I can tell you that If I WERE to sell one It would have to be the ones that don't have a history..... Just being honest! When I ordered my jet I asked for pictures as they built it and before they put the parts together.... I did get some pictures from them.....
To Ban ALL FEJ, That won't happen because there is "No Proof" that ALL FEJ are bad, Am I correct?? As a matter of fact you are not! There only has to be shown that a consistent pattern of failure has occurred in a certain design. This is no different than an entire fleet of full scale aircraft being grounded due to issues in a few batteries. We are wayyy past that point! You would have to have a list if EVERY jet they make and have MANY many numbers of crashes. Again, a complete crock of I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! If you had ANY credibility left on this forum, perhaps some would call, but you continue to decimate whatever credibility you had with these really outlandish posts Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!! Gary, do yourself a favor and......, never mind, it's probably too late!
I understand what you are saying....BUT...... Now "YOU" as a CD could be sued for Discrimination! BS! The legal basis for discrimination remains only those based upon race, sex, religious beliefs or sexual orientation. you know it will happen.....
I have been working on my FEJ, Yes... The one I have for sale, and I have completely redone the Whole tail section and elevator's. Not much left in there of there's..... I know I sell FEJ, Haven't sold one yet, ....BUT... I can tell you that If I WERE to sell one It would have to be the ones that don't have a history..... Just being honest! When I ordered my jet I asked for pictures as they built it and before they put the parts together.... I did get some pictures from them.....
To Ban ALL FEJ, That won't happen because there is "No Proof" that ALL FEJ are bad, Am I correct?? As a matter of fact you are not! There only has to be shown that a consistent pattern of failure has occurred in a certain design. This is no different than an entire fleet of full scale aircraft being grounded due to issues in a few batteries. We are wayyy past that point! You would have to have a list if EVERY jet they make and have MANY many numbers of crashes. Again, a complete crock of I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! If you had ANY credibility left on this forum, perhaps some would call, but you continue to decimate whatever credibility you had with these really outlandish posts Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!! Gary, do yourself a favor and......, never mind, it's probably too late!
Last edited by David Searles; 09-22-2013 at 04:11 PM.
09-22-2013, 05:47 PM
#253
Andy,
I understand what you are saying....BUT...... Now "YOU" as a CD could be sued for Discrimination! you know it will happen.....
I have been working on my FEJ, Yes... The one I have for sale, and I have completely redone the Whole tail section and elevator's. Not much left in there of there's..... I know I sell FEJ, Haven't sold one yet, ....BUT... I can tell you that If I WERE to sell one It would have to be the ones that don't have a history..... Just being honest! When I ordered my jet I asked for pictures as they built it and before they put the parts together.... I did get some pictures from them.....
To Ban ALL FEJ, That won't happen because there is "No Proof" that ALL FEJ are bad, Am I correct?? You would have to have a list if EVERY jet they make and have MANY many numbers of crashes. I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!!
I understand what you are saying....BUT...... Now "YOU" as a CD could be sued for Discrimination! you know it will happen.....
I have been working on my FEJ, Yes... The one I have for sale, and I have completely redone the Whole tail section and elevator's. Not much left in there of there's..... I know I sell FEJ, Haven't sold one yet, ....BUT... I can tell you that If I WERE to sell one It would have to be the ones that don't have a history..... Just being honest! When I ordered my jet I asked for pictures as they built it and before they put the parts together.... I did get some pictures from them.....
To Ban ALL FEJ, That won't happen because there is "No Proof" that ALL FEJ are bad, Am I correct?? You would have to have a list if EVERY jet they make and have MANY many numbers of crashes. I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!!
Are you making things up again, or did the epoxy fumes get to you?
No proof is needed to enact a ban ... the government does things like this all the time. And as a Course Director, it would simply become his wish to do so ... and it is done. Gripe all you want if a CD enacts a ban, but it could be done. Even on the club level. Clubs do things like this frequently, and for whatever reason they want. End of discussion. Then they refuse to discuss it further.
Last edited by Airplanes400; 09-22-2013 at 05:53 PM.
09-22-2013, 07:00 PM
#256
I asked AMA about this before KY Jets, I was told a ARF has to be flown as is and moving the MAC is not allowed This area of the rules has some gray areas. This was told to me by the individual that works the large model stuff at AMA, I forget his name. If I built this model from scratch I must use the AMAs MAC formula, that being said you would think they would have done this if they had any clue how to build a jet. You have to remember not all of fejs jets had honeycomb in the wrong places, when the honeycomb first started they only used it on the skin and everything else was still ply. I have no idea why they started replacing ply with honeycomb(cheaper maybe?) I dont know. I told them after I bought my F-16 not to use honeycomb in the areas they started using it in and I requested all ply when I ordered my two jets. If you look back you will see my f-14 is all ply unlike the ones that have crashed, the only reason this f-15 had any honeycomb in it was due to the first one being sent back to JAmes and a new one was built due to shipping damage. As for the stab insides, I have already drilled and borescoped the f-14, will be doing the f-15 before it flies. If I think these jets are unsafe I will not fly them, I have a few weapons that I havent even shot yet and a itchy trigger finger 
Keith,
Regarding your F-14 and F-15 you are obviously putting in a lot of work and you mentioned correcting some visible issues. What are your thoughts on the areas that are sealed or otherwise not visible such as the internal stab and wing structure? EDFJim found that the factory installed stab pivots on the F-14 are at 27.4% MAC (well aft of the AMA allowable range) and thus prone to flutter. Is FEJ sending out new stabs and mechanisms to their customers? If not, are you planning on moving the pivots? What are your thoughts on X-raying the stabs to get some idea of the internal structure and pivot attachment within the stab?
Jim
Regarding your F-14 and F-15 you are obviously putting in a lot of work and you mentioned correcting some visible issues. What are your thoughts on the areas that are sealed or otherwise not visible such as the internal stab and wing structure? EDFJim found that the factory installed stab pivots on the F-14 are at 27.4% MAC (well aft of the AMA allowable range) and thus prone to flutter. Is FEJ sending out new stabs and mechanisms to their customers? If not, are you planning on moving the pivots? What are your thoughts on X-raying the stabs to get some idea of the internal structure and pivot attachment within the stab?
Jim
Last edited by FenderBean; 09-22-2013 at 07:03 PM.
09-22-2013, 07:21 PM
#257
First of all any club or event director can refuse permission to a participant as long as its not based on what is clearly defined as discriminatory under present legislation.
Most of what people refer to as rules of the organization is simply guidelines and as such don’t really have any teeth to them. In fact most clubs have more enforceable rules than the parent organizations AMA or MAAC.
Take for instance these radios by Hobby King. These are not approved in either the US or Canada and both organizations recommend that you not use them. Neither organization bans them nor, if you ask will using them void your insurance. This is what you need to understand about a recommendation.
Now lets say at an event someone were to show up with heaven forbid a 40% or jet guided by one of these radios. The club determines this is not safe and makes a ruling banning these radios at this event. The club has now made a determination that the unapproved radios made by Hobby King are not safe. The club now would assume sole responsibility if they allowed these radios to be used at any other time and an accident were to take place.
The same when you ban a particular model at an event. Once banned how is it safe to fly at any other time. Be careful about banning things under the guise of safety. Once you determine something is not safe it will not become ok to fly it when the event is over. Unsafe is unsafe.
We just went through this minefield with the Hobby King stuff. Tough call either way.
Dennis
Most of what people refer to as rules of the organization is simply guidelines and as such don’t really have any teeth to them. In fact most clubs have more enforceable rules than the parent organizations AMA or MAAC.
Take for instance these radios by Hobby King. These are not approved in either the US or Canada and both organizations recommend that you not use them. Neither organization bans them nor, if you ask will using them void your insurance. This is what you need to understand about a recommendation.
Now lets say at an event someone were to show up with heaven forbid a 40% or jet guided by one of these radios. The club determines this is not safe and makes a ruling banning these radios at this event. The club has now made a determination that the unapproved radios made by Hobby King are not safe. The club now would assume sole responsibility if they allowed these radios to be used at any other time and an accident were to take place.
The same when you ban a particular model at an event. Once banned how is it safe to fly at any other time. Be careful about banning things under the guise of safety. Once you determine something is not safe it will not become ok to fly it when the event is over. Unsafe is unsafe.
We just went through this minefield with the Hobby King stuff. Tough call either way.
Dennis
09-22-2013, 07:31 PM
#259
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boroscopes might be the best way to inspect these things actually. I cant imagine x-rays being cheap or easy to get unless you already have access.
Buy an ARF and might as well buy a boroscope to go along with it. This helps address the quality control part of the problem. It does not address the design flaw part however.
So, Dreamworks has one as does Harbor Freight. Anybody used either of these and have an opinion?
Buy an ARF and might as well buy a boroscope to go along with it. This helps address the quality control part of the problem. It does not address the design flaw part however.
So, Dreamworks has one as does Harbor Freight. Anybody used either of these and have an opinion?
09-22-2013, 07:35 PM
#260
I have the dreamworks one, It needs a longer cable but you can get one from any electronics store since its USB. Has an adjustable light and software is simple.
boroscopes might be the best way to inspect these things actually. I cant imagine x-rays being cheap or easy to get unless you already have access.
Buy an ARF and might as well buy a boroscope to go along with it. This helps address the quality control part of the problem. It does not address the design flaw part however.
So, Dreamworks has one as does Harbor Freight. Anybody used either of these and have an opinion?
Buy an ARF and might as well buy a boroscope to go along with it. This helps address the quality control part of the problem. It does not address the design flaw part however.
So, Dreamworks has one as does Harbor Freight. Anybody used either of these and have an opinion?
09-22-2013, 07:39 PM
#261
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Dennis,
We also went threw this at our club. We voted to have the radio banned...... BUT since we fly on a PUBLIC Field it didn't hold up. WHY..... Because we were told that the Field is PUBLIC and we have NO control over it, UNLESS we go to the city meeting and get them to ban it. Just saying.. so come on with your comments, again.......
We also went threw this at our club. We voted to have the radio banned...... BUT since we fly on a PUBLIC Field it didn't hold up. WHY..... Because we were told that the Field is PUBLIC and we have NO control over it, UNLESS we go to the city meeting and get them to ban it. Just saying.. so come on with your comments, again.......
First of all any club or event director can refuse permission to a participant as long as its not based on what is clearly defined as discriminatory under present legislation.
Most of what people refer to as rules of the organization is simply guidelines and as such don’t really have any teeth to them. In fact most clubs have more enforceable rules than the parent organizations AMA or MAAC.
Take for instance these radios by Hobby King. These are not approved in either the US or Canada and both organizations recommend that you not use them. Neither organization bans them nor, if you ask will using them void your insurance. This is what you need to understand about a recommendation.
Now lets say at an event someone were to show up with heaven forbid a 40% or jet guided by one of these radios. The club determines this is not safe and makes a ruling banning these radios at this event. The club has now made a determination that the unapproved radios made by Hobby King are not safe. The club now would assume sole responsibility if they allowed these radios to be used at any other time and an accident were to take place.
The same when you ban a particular model at an event. Once banned how is it safe to fly at any other time. Be careful about banning things under the guise of safety. Once you determine something is not safe it will not become ok to fly it when the event is over. Unsafe is unsafe.
We just went through this minefield with the Hobby King stuff. Tough call either way.
Dennis
Most of what people refer to as rules of the organization is simply guidelines and as such don’t really have any teeth to them. In fact most clubs have more enforceable rules than the parent organizations AMA or MAAC.
Take for instance these radios by Hobby King. These are not approved in either the US or Canada and both organizations recommend that you not use them. Neither organization bans them nor, if you ask will using them void your insurance. This is what you need to understand about a recommendation.
Now lets say at an event someone were to show up with heaven forbid a 40% or jet guided by one of these radios. The club determines this is not safe and makes a ruling banning these radios at this event. The club has now made a determination that the unapproved radios made by Hobby King are not safe. The club now would assume sole responsibility if they allowed these radios to be used at any other time and an accident were to take place.
The same when you ban a particular model at an event. Once banned how is it safe to fly at any other time. Be careful about banning things under the guise of safety. Once you determine something is not safe it will not become ok to fly it when the event is over. Unsafe is unsafe.
We just went through this minefield with the Hobby King stuff. Tough call either way.
Dennis
09-22-2013, 08:22 PM
#263
Thanks man im just trying to make the best of it and help folks a long the way. I just hate to see so much negative stuff in the hobby its suppose to be fun but I agree something has to change.
09-22-2013, 08:25 PM
#264
Dennis,
We also went threw this at our club. We voted to have the radio banned...... BUT since we fly on a PUBLIC Field it didn't hold up. WHY..... Because we were told that the Field is PUBLIC and we have NO control over it, UNLESS we go to the city meeting and get them to ban it. Just saying.. so come on with your comments, again.......
We also went threw this at our club. We voted to have the radio banned...... BUT since we fly on a PUBLIC Field it didn't hold up. WHY..... Because we were told that the Field is PUBLIC and we have NO control over it, UNLESS we go to the city meeting and get them to ban it. Just saying.. so come on with your comments, again.......
If your club voted to ban these radios then the only ones that would be affected would be club members. Not the general public. Your club members would be expected to abide by the ban. As to the general public they are responsible for their own actions and except for those special occasions where the club has exclusive use of the field the club could not enforce the ban on the general public.
Private airfields and clubs are a different matter.
It’s too bad so many of the clubs in the US have to rely on using public land. I have flown at clubs both on private land and public land and the difference in many cases is night and day.
Dennis
09-22-2013, 08:26 PM
#265
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How does one go about getting an Updated FEJ stab for the 1.45 hawk if they have made a fix I would like to get the updated stab. the 2 flights I put on it haven't resulted in a crash, but I'm not flying it again after reading about 3 hawk crashes for the same issue.
09-22-2013, 08:32 PM
#266
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Take for instance these radios by Hobby King. These are not approved in either the US or Canada and both organizations recommend that you not use them. Neither organization bans them nor, if you ask will using them void your insurance. This is what you need to understand about a recommendation.
09-22-2013, 08:41 PM
#267
In Canada our organization is trying to come up with a solution to this problem they are not approved here as well.
Dennis
09-22-2013, 08:57 PM
#268
Keith,
Interesting response from the AMA. One would think that the MAC range would be applicable to all airframes, both scratch built and ARF. Sounds like they are assuming the ARF is proven which may not be the case. If it was me, I'd move the pivot for what that's worth.
I applaud you for checking things out with a borescope. I've been meaning to pick up one of those myself. When checking the stabs or wings, you see something you don't like or are unsure about and want to bounce it off a structures AE, feel free to give me a call. You might also be able to easily get an x-ray. A couple of years back there was a big concern over F-20 stabs and pivot attachment points. One of the owners brought his stabs to an airport and got the TSA to x-ray them. I guess he went at a off-peak hour as they really knocked themselves out to help the guy and turned the effort into a training exercise. He got some great pics. Just a thought.
Jim
Interesting response from the AMA. One would think that the MAC range would be applicable to all airframes, both scratch built and ARF. Sounds like they are assuming the ARF is proven which may not be the case. If it was me, I'd move the pivot for what that's worth.
I applaud you for checking things out with a borescope. I've been meaning to pick up one of those myself. When checking the stabs or wings, you see something you don't like or are unsure about and want to bounce it off a structures AE, feel free to give me a call. You might also be able to easily get an x-ray. A couple of years back there was a big concern over F-20 stabs and pivot attachment points. One of the owners brought his stabs to an airport and got the TSA to x-ray them. I guess he went at a off-peak hour as they really knocked themselves out to help the guy and turned the effort into a training exercise. He got some great pics. Just a thought.
Jim
09-22-2013, 09:08 PM
#269
The quality issues with FEJ jets & subsequent losses, have been doing the rounds for years. They have been posted on various forums & must be almost universally known throughout the jet community. Yet people still buy the beautifully painted models.
I think by now, anyone who buys FEJ, do so at there own risk & if it all goes wrong, do not come on RCU complaining about it.
I am sure some will say that not everyone reads the forums & will not know, well more fool them for not doing some homework. People buying the type of jets that are mentioned, are not rookies & should be well versed in seeking out info before parting with thousands of $$$.
But as always, there's one born every minute.
I think by now, anyone who buys FEJ, do so at there own risk & if it all goes wrong, do not come on RCU complaining about it.
I am sure some will say that not everyone reads the forums & will not know, well more fool them for not doing some homework. People buying the type of jets that are mentioned, are not rookies & should be well versed in seeking out info before parting with thousands of $$$.
But as always, there's one born every minute.
09-22-2013, 09:21 PM
#270
We have had several failures over this way with the Chinese ARFs and even though they look fantastic from the outside, they can be a time bomb hidden away inside the skin! I am not mentioning any names here but these pics show the very poor construction method on a large F16, that crashed during a fast low pass. It hit the runway DIRECTLY in front of the flying pilots, completely out of control, after one stab parted from the tail. Needless to say, it was only luck that nobody was hurt. The anti rotation spar was actually a small rod inserted into a balsa box!! I feel that one layer of the skin should be cut away around all of the high stress areas and suitably beefed up. The skin than be re-attached, knowing that it was stronger than before.
09-22-2013, 09:52 PM
#271
I have told you and many others about getting Insurance for there jets, To date, Only ONE........ ONE person has made the call...... Why is this????? Why, won't people call to find out the truth???? It maybe that they think they know it all and have decided that there is NO WAY..... WELL... They are wrong!! I would be happy to REPOST this information and again, to just see how many actually call!!!!! Andy, Do yourself a favor and call..... It makes it easier to fly your jets!!!
Gerry,
Since you have advised several times for people to buy insurance, and I'm the "one" who checked it out, I need to let you know how it went. My State Farm agent (for 26 years) checked and was unable to obtain coverage at all. Each area of the country has a regional underwriter who decides what they will cover. I was told that the southeast regional underwriter for my company, though it is the same as your company, wouldn't touch this type of coverage at any price. He suggested looking into some specialty insurance company, but couldn't provide a lead on that. I didn't bother myself because I think it would be more $ than I'd be willing to pay. So, if you have State Farm, and you live in the SouthEast, you're outta luck on model airplane insurance.
Further, I doubt seriously that your own insurance company would cover you on some of the airframes that have become recurring problems, as they are "known or existing issues". It would be like obtaining auto coverage after being rear-ended in your Pinto. You might want to contact your company and be certain that you are indeed covered if you are flying any of the jets that are already known to be defective.
09-22-2013, 10:23 PM
#272
I never thought about the airport type scanner, we have a air force terminal here at Fort Campbell that is used for when people fly in and out for deployments they are never busy. I will swing buy and see what I can get scanned I bet they would be up for it.
Keith,
Interesting response from the AMA. One would think that the MAC range would be applicable to all airframes, both scratch built and ARF. Sounds like they are assuming the ARF is proven which may not be the case. If it was me, I'd move the pivot for what that's worth.
I applaud you for checking things out with a borescope. I've been meaning to pick up one of those myself. When checking the stabs or wings, you see something you don't like or are unsure about and want to bounce it off a structures AE, feel free to give me a call. You might also be able to easily get an x-ray. A couple of years back there was a big concern over F-20 stabs and pivot attachment points. One of the owners brought his stabs to an airport and got the TSA to x-ray them. I guess he went at a off-peak hour as they really knocked themselves out to help the guy and turned the effort into a training exercise. He got some great pics. Just a thought.
Jim
Interesting response from the AMA. One would think that the MAC range would be applicable to all airframes, both scratch built and ARF. Sounds like they are assuming the ARF is proven which may not be the case. If it was me, I'd move the pivot for what that's worth.
I applaud you for checking things out with a borescope. I've been meaning to pick up one of those myself. When checking the stabs or wings, you see something you don't like or are unsure about and want to bounce it off a structures AE, feel free to give me a call. You might also be able to easily get an x-ray. A couple of years back there was a big concern over F-20 stabs and pivot attachment points. One of the owners brought his stabs to an airport and got the TSA to x-ray them. I guess he went at a off-peak hour as they really knocked themselves out to help the guy and turned the effort into a training exercise. He got some great pics. Just a thought.
Jim
09-23-2013, 12:32 AM
#273
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I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would still buy airplanes from FEJ. They continually show they don't have a clue how to engineer their aircraft structure, and repeatedly show a complete lack of understanding of the concept of customer service.
09-23-2013, 12:48 AM
#274
The hype machine around FEJ was high for the past year or so and now perception is that the brand represents junk. Anecdotally, I hear non-jet guys laugh and snicker when FEJ is brought up at local fields. You might as well say you own a Yugo painted with pigeon crap. FEJ has single handedly destroyed their brand and now only the penny wise and pound foolish will buy them.
Last edited by dubd; 09-23-2013 at 12:52 AM.
09-23-2013, 03:56 AM
#275
Just look at all the work Keith is (very wisely) doing to his so-called "ARF"'s from FEJ just to make sure they have a chance of being airworthy. And all this on top of already parting with some serious cash for them! He's had to do so much re-engineering, he might as well just have ordered the molds and built straight from the layup.
Probably would have taken less time,...and at least then you know it would be done right.
Sluggo