Pah co's 2A6 build
09-23-2011, 10:35 PM
#101
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RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Blast, I gotta make it a habit to 'copy' a post before sending, getting more failures lately, and there is no other recovery method.
Basically: The turret traverse ring is an assembly that can be dismountedwithout dis-assembly. The central white ring that holds the bearing balls, and the upper and lower casing parts. Note that each has holes that go through without a crew grabbing them. ~THIS~ is how you can dismount it, and by picking the right set, you can leave it attached to either the turret or upper hull. What Pah Co did was raise the whole ring, but I suespect shimming just the back would havce sufficed if he didn't over-tighten the side-screws and warp the upper/lower black rings.
And to note, he could have used a smaller shim. Think geometry & triangles, and levers too. By Pah-Co's measurements, the ring is ~roughly~ 5.5" in diameter, or 14mm (mean of inner/outer measurements) So if he shimmed only the back edge of the ring at .75mm, then every 7mm further out (2.75") the lift would be 50% more (angle, guys, angle) and at 14mm out from the ring-edge, its lifted a good 1.5mm. He could have used a smaller shim to get the same .75mm lift at the rear of the turret to clear the grilles.
Pah co: Yea, those are the gun cleaning rods. Lemme look at the 'Stan pics to see what the Canucks did to theirs, if I can spot 'em. Back with an edit in a few, just gotta find the image CD's...
Hokay... all the major metal was left the dark green that they arrived with, even though most got 'lightened' with dust. The slat-armor was pre-painted in a tan/sand color, and some of the removable bits (grousers, spare track, etc) was pulled and painted sand. The wooden handles were left au-naturel, though they could have received a protective matt clearcoat. The shovels showed some rust where the paint must have worn off the blades, and the bare metal had begun to oxidize in the heat. I noted that the pick head was a matt primer red, though the handle was wood. And sadly, I couldn't find any images in my quick look that showed the cleaning rods. They may be stored in a bin now, or left at base, now that there is a WHOLE lot of crap on the turrets between the bustle-bins and the slat-armor. I'd say you'd be safe leaving 'em OD w/ a bit of weathering to match the hull, and a bit of oil-type residue (use a smear of cooking oil) on the ends where they thread/attach to each other (don't want rust there, and end up w/ rods that lock together, or won't go together at all, eh?)
WhiteWolf
Basically: The turret traverse ring is an assembly that can be dismountedwithout dis-assembly. The central white ring that holds the bearing balls, and the upper and lower casing parts. Note that each has holes that go through without a crew grabbing them. ~THIS~ is how you can dismount it, and by picking the right set, you can leave it attached to either the turret or upper hull. What Pah Co did was raise the whole ring, but I suespect shimming just the back would havce sufficed if he didn't over-tighten the side-screws and warp the upper/lower black rings.
And to note, he could have used a smaller shim. Think geometry & triangles, and levers too. By Pah-Co's measurements, the ring is ~roughly~ 5.5" in diameter, or 14mm (mean of inner/outer measurements) So if he shimmed only the back edge of the ring at .75mm, then every 7mm further out (2.75") the lift would be 50% more (angle, guys, angle) and at 14mm out from the ring-edge, its lifted a good 1.5mm. He could have used a smaller shim to get the same .75mm lift at the rear of the turret to clear the grilles.
Pah co: Yea, those are the gun cleaning rods. Lemme look at the 'Stan pics to see what the Canucks did to theirs, if I can spot 'em. Back with an edit in a few, just gotta find the image CD's...
Hokay... all the major metal was left the dark green that they arrived with, even though most got 'lightened' with dust. The slat-armor was pre-painted in a tan/sand color, and some of the removable bits (grousers, spare track, etc) was pulled and painted sand. The wooden handles were left au-naturel, though they could have received a protective matt clearcoat. The shovels showed some rust where the paint must have worn off the blades, and the bare metal had begun to oxidize in the heat. I noted that the pick head was a matt primer red, though the handle was wood. And sadly, I couldn't find any images in my quick look that showed the cleaning rods. They may be stored in a bin now, or left at base, now that there is a WHOLE lot of crap on the turrets between the bustle-bins and the slat-armor. I'd say you'd be safe leaving 'em OD w/ a bit of weathering to match the hull, and a bit of oil-type residue (use a smear of cooking oil) on the ends where they thread/attach to each other (don't want rust there, and end up w/ rods that lock together, or won't go together at all, eh?)
WhiteWolf
09-24-2011, 04:34 AM
#102
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
ORIGINAL: Pah co chu puk
BIGGTONY How do you plan to do such a complex camo?
I have been thinking about it for some time and today I did a ''bench test'' of my method to see what I could do. The colors I used are not the colors I'm using on the Leo.
I used the workbench as the first color, some tan I had extra of as the second color, and a green as the third color. I used brush instead of the airbrush but I learned some things...
I got some bleed through at the places the tape overlaped.
Tweezers are a must!
This will take a long time to do right.
This will only work if I can touch up the spray with a brush using the same color.
This could look awesome.
A step by step of my method in pix... Advice from others is always a gift, even if you only pass it on.
BIGGTONY How do you plan to do such a complex camo?
I have been thinking about it for some time and today I did a ''bench test'' of my method to see what I could do. The colors I used are not the colors I'm using on the Leo.
I used the workbench as the first color, some tan I had extra of as the second color, and a green as the third color. I used brush instead of the airbrush but I learned some things...
I got some bleed through at the places the tape overlaped.
Tweezers are a must!
This will take a long time to do right.
This will only work if I can touch up the spray with a brush using the same color.
This could look awesome.
A step by step of my method in pix... Advice from others is always a gift, even if you only pass it on.
looks good, you just have some bleeding going on.....make sure to press down the painters tape firmly and you will get crisp lines guaranteed
09-24-2011, 05:46 AM
#103
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
WWMB... And to note, he could have used a smaller shim. Think geometry & triangles, and levers too. By Pah-Co's measurements, the ring is ~roughly~ 5.5" in diameter, or 14mm (mean of inner/outer measurements) So if he shimmed only the back edge of the ring at .75mm, then every 7mm further out (2.75") the lift would be 50% more (angle, guys, angle) and at 14mm out from the ring-edge, its lifted a good 1.5mm. He could have used a smaller shim to get the same .75mm lift at the rear of the turret to clear the grilles.
I must have been late, read cm where the mm is bold. I got 143 mm or 14.3 cm.
I thought about just shimming the back... but the turret ring needs the support of the hull deck to prevent wobble. Just adding the rectangle blocks under the whole assembly left way too much slop and the turret dragged worse than doing nothing. The ring I made was nessasary to prevent this slop.
Shimming objects at an angle is always tricky, you need many shims of slightly different thickness placed just right or the whole thing can be warped by the fastiners. Cutting tapered shims will sometimes help, I once made a shim that went from 0 to 1 3/8 inch over 11 feet, but even that adds a lot of complex issues to solve. When ever possable, shim stuff out parallel to the starting surface and you will save yourself much trouble.
Besides, I was woried that it would make my nice tank look cockeyed.
I must have been late, read cm where the mm is bold. I got 143 mm or 14.3 cm.
I thought about just shimming the back... but the turret ring needs the support of the hull deck to prevent wobble. Just adding the rectangle blocks under the whole assembly left way too much slop and the turret dragged worse than doing nothing. The ring I made was nessasary to prevent this slop.
Shimming objects at an angle is always tricky, you need many shims of slightly different thickness placed just right or the whole thing can be warped by the fastiners. Cutting tapered shims will sometimes help, I once made a shim that went from 0 to 1 3/8 inch over 11 feet, but even that adds a lot of complex issues to solve. When ever possable, shim stuff out parallel to the starting surface and you will save yourself much trouble.
Besides, I was woried that it would make my nice tank look cockeyed.
09-24-2011, 05:50 AM
#104
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie
looks good, you just have some bleeding going on.....make sure to press down the painters tape firmly and you will get crisp lines guaranteed
ORIGINAL: Pah co chu puk
BIGGTONY How do you plan to do such a complex camo?
I have been thinking about it for some time and today I did a ''bench test'' of my method to see what I could do. The colors I used are not the colors I'm using on the Leo.
I used the workbench as the first color, some tan I had extra of as the second color, and a green as the third color. I used brush instead of the airbrush but I learned some things...
I got some bleed through at the places the tape overlaped.
Tweezers are a must!
This will take a long time to do right.
This will only work if I can touch up the spray with a brush using the same color.
This could look awesome.
A step by step of my method in pix... Advice from others is always a gift, even if you only pass it on.
BIGGTONY How do you plan to do such a complex camo?
I have been thinking about it for some time and today I did a ''bench test'' of my method to see what I could do. The colors I used are not the colors I'm using on the Leo.
I used the workbench as the first color, some tan I had extra of as the second color, and a green as the third color. I used brush instead of the airbrush but I learned some things...
I got some bleed through at the places the tape overlaped.
Tweezers are a must!
This will take a long time to do right.
This will only work if I can touch up the spray with a brush using the same color.
This could look awesome.
A step by step of my method in pix... Advice from others is always a gift, even if you only pass it on.
looks good, you just have some bleeding going on.....make sure to press down the painters tape firmly and you will get crisp lines guaranteed
The best way to "guarantee" no bleed through's is to shoot a coat of clear over the tape before applying any colors. The clear will seal the tape.
And of course, allow it to dry.~ Jeff
09-24-2011, 06:04 AM
#105
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Good idea! I used the females several times each and at the end they would bleed like that. After about 4 cycles it was a gamble weather or not they would work. It was a learning journey for sure. I can touch up that stuff after the tank is done, but painting it like that with all the goodies on it would be a nightmare. Just having all the "glass" out was a big help.
09-24-2011, 11:26 AM
#107
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RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
ORIGINAL: Pah co chu puk
WWMB... ''And to note, he could have used a smaller shim. Think geometry & triangles, and levers too. By Pah-Co's measurements, the ring is ~roughly~ 5.5'' in diameter, or 14mm (mean of inner/outer measurements) So if he shimmed only the back edge of the ring at .75mm, then every 7mm further out (2.75'') the lift would be 50% more (angle, guys, angle) and at 14mm out from the ring-edge, its lifted a good 1.5mm. He could have used a smaller shim to get the same .75mm lift at the rear of the turret to clear the grilles.
I must have been late, read cm where the mm is bold. I got 143 mm or 14.3 cm.
WWMB... ''And to note, he could have used a smaller shim. Think geometry & triangles, and levers too. By Pah-Co's measurements, the ring is ~roughly~ 5.5'' in diameter, or 14mm (mean of inner/outer measurements) So if he shimmed only the back edge of the ring at .75mm, then every 7mm further out (2.75'') the lift would be 50% more (angle, guys, angle) and at 14mm out from the ring-edge, its lifted a good 1.5mm. He could have used a smaller shim to get the same .75mm lift at the rear of the turret to clear the grilles.
I must have been late, read cm where the mm is bold. I got 143 mm or 14.3 cm.
WhiteWolf
- who promises himself to get to the table saw chop-job ~tomorrow~... and meaning it this time!
09-24-2011, 01:46 PM
#108
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
re"> So I looked at the turret sag problem again. My shims lift the turret but do not address the sag problem.
re"> The sag seems to be the result of the weight of the DMD unit, and to a lesser degree the battery, being cantilevered out on the lower turret half. Lack of stiffening webs allows the ABS deck to sag over time. I find it strange that with a perfect weight bearing truss RIGHT there, Tamiya did not choose to use it.
I looked at the turret upper half as a 3D rigid polygon, and saw the truss system we needed to offset the pull of gravity. By adding a small tab to the back part of the turret lower and cutting a corresponding slot in the turret upper I was able to transfer the downward loading ( red arrow ) in the turret lower into the turret upper ( white arrows ). This then acts like a truss ( yellow lines ), think crane boom or bridge section, and transfers the loading horizontally ( white arrows ) over to the two locking knobs that join the two halves. This made the turret strong enough to hold up my controller without touching the deck. It also has the added befit of indexing the two turret haves in the back area where they need to be.
09-24-2011, 02:05 PM
#109
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RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
DAYMN!
Why dinna I think of that one? Especially as thats ~exactly~ what I did years back for my Tiger 1E aft turret engagement problem. Anyone who has one knows the top front corners are ok, but the aft clips bust, being so flimsy. Find attached my T1E diagram for creating a similar tab-in-slot mechanism for the LittleKitty (the KT being the KingKitty)
Thanks for the reminder Pah Co... oh, and if the one aft isn't enough, you CAN make ones in the side, they are just half-size, and you push up, and slide back to engage... like the back panels on Tx battery doors, right?
WhiteWolf
- having a serious DOH moment here... *sigh*
Sometimes, when ya think outside the box, it ends up being Shipped to Destination EMPTY... and thats BAD.
Why dinna I think of that one? Especially as thats ~exactly~ what I did years back for my Tiger 1E aft turret engagement problem. Anyone who has one knows the top front corners are ok, but the aft clips bust, being so flimsy. Find attached my T1E diagram for creating a similar tab-in-slot mechanism for the LittleKitty (the KT being the KingKitty)
Thanks for the reminder Pah Co... oh, and if the one aft isn't enough, you CAN make ones in the side, they are just half-size, and you push up, and slide back to engage... like the back panels on Tx battery doors, right?
WhiteWolf
- having a serious DOH moment here... *sigh*
Sometimes, when ya think outside the box, it ends up being Shipped to Destination EMPTY... and thats BAD.
09-27-2011, 01:51 PM
#111
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Today I took it outside for the first time. It was ready for a real for a test drive. It's all done except the nebelwurfbechers, they will take some time, so out for a spin we went. Everything worked great, it was a beautiful day, it was lots of fun. We went up to 11,000 ft and got some nice pix with the fall colors. Boy, it would be hard to camo a tank for that hillside!
I was running it around by the road when a couple in a Jeep from Texas stopped to watch. He seemed to be very into it, so perhaps a new tanker has been created.
I opened up the throttle all the way for the first time and let her run
, man is it fast. I got movies of it running full out, so soon the Leo will Star in a silly movie too! I got an idea cookin' along the lines of the hammer tank adventures...
I'm happy with how well the camo works in dark timber, but snow will be a new chalenge... I'm working on digi snow camo nets.
I was running it around by the road when a couple in a Jeep from Texas stopped to watch. He seemed to be very into it, so perhaps a new tanker has been created.
I opened up the throttle all the way for the first time and let her run
, man is it fast. I got movies of it running full out, so soon the Leo will Star in a silly movie too! I got an idea cookin' along the lines of the hammer tank adventures...I'm happy with how well the camo works in dark timber, but snow will be a new chalenge... I'm working on digi snow camo nets.
09-27-2011, 02:09 PM
#112
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Looks so real.
~ Jeff
~ Jeff
09-27-2011, 07:18 PM
#116
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Yeah, that paint job was more work than I planed, but it looks good in the woods. Now I want to do a full size Jeep that way, then everybody in three countys would know who I was...
I been workin' on a movie from today, that Leo hauls a**, but the computer keeps re-booting and I lose it all, then start over...
One last mod I did from stock plans was to add1/8 in.,90 deg. stock, to the front of the turret upper to fill the gap where the upper and front meet. I could see wires and that did not work for me so... I made trim to cover the gap. See pix.
Some more from today...
At this time I would like to let everyone know, now the Western Slope has a Tamiya Battle Unit on Standby Alert. If you bring tanks to the San Juan Mtns, there will be a battle. We will not invade anybody else, but these mtns will be defended. We will remain nutral in all matters and respect the Clubs in our area. Frag and DAK have nothing to fear from the San Juan's, but this is our mtn. stronghold.
I been workin' on a movie from today, that Leo hauls a**, but the computer keeps re-booting and I lose it all, then start over...
One last mod I did from stock plans was to add1/8 in.,90 deg. stock, to the front of the turret upper to fill the gap where the upper and front meet. I could see wires and that did not work for me so... I made trim to cover the gap. See pix.
Some more from today...
At this time I would like to let everyone know, now the Western Slope has a Tamiya Battle Unit on Standby Alert. If you bring tanks to the San Juan Mtns, there will be a battle. We will not invade anybody else, but these mtns will be defended. We will remain nutral in all matters and respect the Clubs in our area. Frag and DAK have nothing to fear from the San Juan's, but this is our mtn. stronghold.
09-28-2011, 12:36 PM
#117
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
I got the video to save at last. Nothing fancy, just the Leo running around... fast.
The basic kit is almost done, now for some scratch built, add on goodies.
09-28-2011, 03:45 PM
#118
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RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Wow, nice vid and I can't get over that scenery. Do you carry a rifle on your filming excursions? I would be afraid of meeting a bear or big cat up there. And I love the job you have done on that tank. 
09-28-2011, 04:19 PM
#120
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Up from the bottom would be about 4,000 ft. A long ways for a 1/16 scale tank!
I wasn't packin' that day, we stayed close to the truck.
The bears don't worry me, but big cats are spooky to be around. I have been tracked by big cats, their paw prints on my footprints, have looked into those eyes. I was happy I was packin' iron that day, and even with a pistol and a rifle, I was scared. Boy, was I happy when she ran away.
Perhaps that is why the Germans name their tanks after big cats.
I wasn't packin' that day, we stayed close to the truck.
The bears don't worry me, but big cats are spooky to be around. I have been tracked by big cats, their paw prints on my footprints, have looked into those eyes. I was happy I was packin' iron that day, and even with a pistol and a rifle, I was scared. Boy, was I happy when she ran away.
Perhaps that is why the Germans name their tanks after big cats.
10-02-2011, 08:56 AM
#121
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Some add on goodies I have come up with so far...
A dust cover for the gun tube, in safety orange for road convoys. I call it the cannon comdom.
I got orange flagging from the hardware store, cut two parts the same size. Then I pressed them together and melted three sides together with a lighter. Turn it inside out, and it's done.
With snow comming the Leo needs to have a "winter coat" that blends in for better hunting. All the turret functions work with the net on, gun recoil, turret turning, and gun elavation.
A dust cover for the gun tube, in safety orange for road convoys. I call it the cannon comdom.
I got orange flagging from the hardware store, cut two parts the same size. Then I pressed them together and melted three sides together with a lighter. Turn it inside out, and it's done.
With snow comming the Leo needs to have a "winter coat" that blends in for better hunting. All the turret functions work with the net on, gun recoil, turret turning, and gun elavation.
10-14-2011, 06:19 PM
#122
Thread Starter
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
Well the basic kit is done now... I added the nebelwurfbechers this week, those were the last stock parts to go on. I have some more ideas for this one but they will take time... I'll keep you posted.
Two questions:
I control the Leo with a Futaba T4YF-2.4G skysport, nice unit, but the left joystick is not self centering, can I change the joystickout, or would I need a new unit?
I would like to get the Tamiya modern Bundeswehr tank crewman for this Leo, but the Tamiya website lists them as discontinued, anybody know where in North America I can buy one? I have found some overseas but the shipping would double the cost. Any other modern tank crew figures out there?
This tank is amazing, I am having lots of fun with it. I'm looking forward to running it in snow.
Two questions:
I control the Leo with a Futaba T4YF-2.4G skysport, nice unit, but the left joystick is not self centering, can I change the joystickout, or would I need a new unit?
I would like to get the Tamiya modern Bundeswehr tank crewman for this Leo, but the Tamiya website lists them as discontinued, anybody know where in North America I can buy one? I have found some overseas but the shipping would double the cost. Any other modern tank crew figures out there?
This tank is amazing, I am having lots of fun with it. I'm looking forward to running it in snow.
]
10-14-2011, 09:13 PM
#125
RE: Pah co's 2A6 build
ORIGINAL: Pah co chu puk
Well the basic kit is done now... I added the nebelwurfbechers this week, those were the last stock parts to go on. I have some more ideas for this one but they will take time... I'll keep you posted.
Two questions:
I control the Leo with a Futaba T4YF-2.4G skysport, nice unit, but the left joystick is not self centering, can I change the joystickout, or would I need a new unit?
I would like to get the Tamiya modern Bundeswehr tank crewman for this Leo, but the Tamiya website lists them as discontinued, anybody know where in North America I can buy one? I have found some overseas but the shipping would double the cost. Any other modern tank crew figures out there?
This tank is amazing, I am having lots of fun with it. I'm looking forward to running it in snow.
Well the basic kit is done now... I added the nebelwurfbechers this week, those were the last stock parts to go on. I have some more ideas for this one but they will take time... I'll keep you posted.
Two questions:
I control the Leo with a Futaba T4YF-2.4G skysport, nice unit, but the left joystick is not self centering, can I change the joystickout, or would I need a new unit?
I would like to get the Tamiya modern Bundeswehr tank crewman for this Leo, but the Tamiya website lists them as discontinued, anybody know where in North America I can buy one? I have found some overseas but the shipping would double the cost. Any other modern tank crew figures out there?
This tank is amazing, I am having lots of fun with it. I'm looking forward to running it in snow.
i started carving one might take me a while first attempt see how it goes this is what i have so far