Skyshark kit prices
10-13-2006, 01:39 AM
#151
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
ORIGINAL: w0mbat
We stopped selling to Canada because of all the cheap whiners up there - So far, Colorado is second in line!
We stopped selling to Canada because of all the cheap whiners up there - So far, Colorado is second in line!
10-13-2006, 02:04 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Kudos to Mike but I'd like to add a few things. I look back to the original conception Of Heritage R/C - that was in 1993. I can't believe it has been almost 14 years since I tansitioned from scratch-building designs for myself to thinking that I could make a kit that other people might want. Mike says the hobby has changed in the four years for him and it definitely has, but I contend that the people and attitudes in this hobby have changed even more. I used to sell kits based on that fact that mine were light-years better than Royal kits, or Dyna-flite kits. I used Top Flite as a standard to beat, and d***it, I did. Mike has done even better than I could have in presenting a top quality product.
I could sell a kit over an ARF then because most people still built kits. That has changed drastically - to the point that I cringe every time I see a thread titled "XYZ ARF build". It's not a build, it's an assemble. I digress. The thing that has changed is that the ARF warbird market has gotten just good enough to get past the old slab sided sport plane with racy stickers to make it look like a warbird. They have NOT reached the point that I would consider scale to my level. But in today's market since it's close enough, it's good enough, and now the only real competition is price. It's a race to the bottom, not to the top, believe me.
There's another thread running now comparing the Skyshark P-40 with the CMP P-40. It's a rather illuminating comparison, but that thread misses the point. Most of you probably don't know how long the P-40 took to get to market (some do because they waited for it). Over three years. This in a market where the average time for an ARF to get to market is under a year. Why? Because Mike was not willing to sell the garbage the factory kept trying to pawn off on him. He waited until the airplane met at least his minimum standards before putting it in your hands. In the process he probably set the US-China relations back about ten years because every time they sent a prototype or revised prototype he sent it back and said "try again, but do it my way this time please". Read the comparison and you'll see the difference between caring about what the end product is vs. getting it on the market as quickly as possible. Believe me, Mike thanks his customers, but consider that he also looks out for their interests even before they are customers. Try to find that anywhere else, not only in this hobby, but in any business in this country. I sat in on many of these truly hair-pulling, teeth-gnashing ARF prototype unveilings - we learned quickly not to get our hopes up when the box was opened!
Another interesting item to note is that in the never-ending search for a reliable, quality manufacturer (still ongoing) we even talked about me starting a manufacturing facility to produce ARFs. That way the quality and accuracy would be fully under our control. Alas, even though the last time we talked about this was only a few months ago, the ARF market has reached a "tipping point". In other words, the Chinese manufacturers are now not only trying to sell direct to you, the customer, but the REALLY cheap ARF manufacturers have gotten into the game, because price has become the only selling point, a good product is not a consideration. It truly is Walmart. My business plan can't compete with Chines $2 per day labor rates, and I refuse to live in China (my plan was for overseas manufacturing, just not as far as the Far East).
What does this have to do with kit prices? Just like price has set the acceptable standard for acceptable quality in the ARF market, it has done so in the remains of the kit market as well. Think about this, though. 14 years ago I spent $200 for a Royal Tony Kit, when a Top-flite p-51 retailed for $249.95 unless you bought it through Tower Hobbies, a gallon of gas cost me a buck, and I rented a three-bedroom house for $550 a month.
I used to be good friends with a hobby store owner in northern Colorado. His store did 7 figure sales yearly. I asked him one time how good the R/C section did for him (mind you, this is several years ago, when I could sell him kits and he could actually sell them!) and he told me that, honestly, if he could get rid of the R/C section tomorrow he would because it was a consistent money-loser. His bread and butter was in trains and plastic models. He kept the R/C stuff as a service to his customers. I walked into the store earlier this year after being gone for a while and after new ownership, guess what, the R/C section is a shadow of what it used to be. I have joked for years about the difference in the mind-set of the three types of hobbyist, train guys, plastic model guys, and R/Cers. Ask a train guy how much money he has in his setup, and he won't have a clue. No earthly idea (though it's probably in the tens of thousands), but guaranteed that he put a great deal of thought into who the train set goes to in his will! Ask the average plastic modeler how much he has "invested" in his hobby, again no clue, but if he's like me, it runs into the thousands or more. Ask the average R/Cer how much he's got in "that" airplane, and he can tell you to the penny!
Where am I going with this diatribe? Beats me - it's 3AM, and I went out drinking with my pilot buds so we could gripe about how the airline industry is in a pell-mell race to the bottom where cheap tickets are the only factor. Go figure!
Mark
I could sell a kit over an ARF then because most people still built kits. That has changed drastically - to the point that I cringe every time I see a thread titled "XYZ ARF build". It's not a build, it's an assemble. I digress. The thing that has changed is that the ARF warbird market has gotten just good enough to get past the old slab sided sport plane with racy stickers to make it look like a warbird. They have NOT reached the point that I would consider scale to my level. But in today's market since it's close enough, it's good enough, and now the only real competition is price. It's a race to the bottom, not to the top, believe me.
There's another thread running now comparing the Skyshark P-40 with the CMP P-40. It's a rather illuminating comparison, but that thread misses the point. Most of you probably don't know how long the P-40 took to get to market (some do because they waited for it). Over three years. This in a market where the average time for an ARF to get to market is under a year. Why? Because Mike was not willing to sell the garbage the factory kept trying to pawn off on him. He waited until the airplane met at least his minimum standards before putting it in your hands. In the process he probably set the US-China relations back about ten years because every time they sent a prototype or revised prototype he sent it back and said "try again, but do it my way this time please". Read the comparison and you'll see the difference between caring about what the end product is vs. getting it on the market as quickly as possible. Believe me, Mike thanks his customers, but consider that he also looks out for their interests even before they are customers. Try to find that anywhere else, not only in this hobby, but in any business in this country. I sat in on many of these truly hair-pulling, teeth-gnashing ARF prototype unveilings - we learned quickly not to get our hopes up when the box was opened!
Another interesting item to note is that in the never-ending search for a reliable, quality manufacturer (still ongoing) we even talked about me starting a manufacturing facility to produce ARFs. That way the quality and accuracy would be fully under our control. Alas, even though the last time we talked about this was only a few months ago, the ARF market has reached a "tipping point". In other words, the Chinese manufacturers are now not only trying to sell direct to you, the customer, but the REALLY cheap ARF manufacturers have gotten into the game, because price has become the only selling point, a good product is not a consideration. It truly is Walmart. My business plan can't compete with Chines $2 per day labor rates, and I refuse to live in China (my plan was for overseas manufacturing, just not as far as the Far East).
What does this have to do with kit prices? Just like price has set the acceptable standard for acceptable quality in the ARF market, it has done so in the remains of the kit market as well. Think about this, though. 14 years ago I spent $200 for a Royal Tony Kit, when a Top-flite p-51 retailed for $249.95 unless you bought it through Tower Hobbies, a gallon of gas cost me a buck, and I rented a three-bedroom house for $550 a month.
I used to be good friends with a hobby store owner in northern Colorado. His store did 7 figure sales yearly. I asked him one time how good the R/C section did for him (mind you, this is several years ago, when I could sell him kits and he could actually sell them!) and he told me that, honestly, if he could get rid of the R/C section tomorrow he would because it was a consistent money-loser. His bread and butter was in trains and plastic models. He kept the R/C stuff as a service to his customers. I walked into the store earlier this year after being gone for a while and after new ownership, guess what, the R/C section is a shadow of what it used to be. I have joked for years about the difference in the mind-set of the three types of hobbyist, train guys, plastic model guys, and R/Cers. Ask a train guy how much money he has in his setup, and he won't have a clue. No earthly idea (though it's probably in the tens of thousands), but guaranteed that he put a great deal of thought into who the train set goes to in his will! Ask the average plastic modeler how much he has "invested" in his hobby, again no clue, but if he's like me, it runs into the thousands or more. Ask the average R/Cer how much he's got in "that" airplane, and he can tell you to the penny!
Where am I going with this diatribe? Beats me - it's 3AM, and I went out drinking with my pilot buds so we could gripe about how the airline industry is in a pell-mell race to the bottom where cheap tickets are the only factor. Go figure!
Mark
10-13-2006, 05:27 AM
#153
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Let me clear my point up , I dont hate top flight nor do I laught at people who buy them -sorry for the way I stated that , my point is that there is no comparison in the size or dollar value in a kit form . Top flight has the money , the tech and backing of a major distributor to get there act in gear and produce lasor quality kits . However they continue to produce and distribute die cut kits . yes there popular , some fly ok other are more difficult and that is not based on the builders skill but in design flaws . Look at a skyshark kit , its looks like swiss cheese -100s of holes to keep the plane light , then look at a Top flight kit , simple cuts nothing complex or expensive . IN the end , this adds up to useless weight so you get a P40 that is so much more difficult to fly because of wing loading vs typical ARFs warbirds of the same size .
I have the Pica 1/6 scale P40 new in box , nice plane , designed by dave platt , same design flaws as Top Flight , no lightening holes so by the time you glass it and finish you have a plane on the heavy side of the warbird scales . I plan on several cuts and holes based on what I have learned in seeing skyshark kits .
Again if you have seen my post I speak my mind trying to be respectful to all and honest , I know these kits (skyshark ) are on the top end of the kit line , but please look at the work , the fit of the parts , the lightening holes ect ect . they are first class.
A friend of mine in Lancaster has two of the kits new in box , all I can tell you is wow , they look like RC puzzels , clear crisp and very defined parts .
I have the Pica 1/6 scale P40 new in box , nice plane , designed by dave platt , same design flaws as Top Flight , no lightening holes so by the time you glass it and finish you have a plane on the heavy side of the warbird scales . I plan on several cuts and holes based on what I have learned in seeing skyshark kits .
Again if you have seen my post I speak my mind trying to be respectful to all and honest , I know these kits (skyshark ) are on the top end of the kit line , but please look at the work , the fit of the parts , the lightening holes ect ect . they are first class.
A friend of mine in Lancaster has two of the kits new in box , all I can tell you is wow , they look like RC puzzels , clear crisp and very defined parts .
10-13-2006, 08:00 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
ORIGINAL: B757Captain
but the REALLY cheap ARF manufacturers have gotten into the game, because price has become the only selling point, a good product is not a consideration. It truly is Walmart.
but the REALLY cheap ARF manufacturers have gotten into the game, because price has become the only selling point, a good product is not a consideration. It truly is Walmart.
Thank god I have somewhere to get things at a reasonable price! I am not the type that is going to pay $2000.00 for a labradoodle, but I may give you a FAIR price for the MUTT (based on is it cute, intelligent, and general puppy traits!).
What does this have to do with kit prices? Just like price has set the acceptable standard for acceptable quality in the ARF market, it has done so in the remains of the kit market as well. Think about this, though. 14 years ago I spent $200 for a Royal Tony Kit, when a Top-flite p-51 retailed for $249.95 unless you bought it through Tower Hobbies, a gallon of gas cost me a buck, and I rented a three-bedroom house for $550 a month.
, and rented a 2 bedroom apartment for $200 a month. You can pay labradoodle prices or the Fair price for the mutt, take your pick.
I have joked for years about the difference in the mind-set of the three types of hobbyist, train guys, plastic model guys, and R/Cers. Ask a train guy how much money he has in his setup, and he won't have a clue. No earthly idea (though it's probably in the tens of thousands), but guaranteed that he put a great deal of thought into who the train set goes to in his will! Ask the average plastic modeler how much he has "invested" in his hobby, again no clue, but if he's like me, it runs into the thousands or more. Ask the average R/Cer how much he's got in "that" airplane, and he can tell you to the penny!
Mark
) he may begin to get a clue about how much he has in that model. If the train guy had built his engine from a kit, rather than buying the ARF version, he may be a bit more attached to it, and be more aware of the cost of not only the kit, but also his time invested in it.I wonder if that train guy owns a labradoodle?
edited for some the many spelling errors.
10-13-2006, 09:03 AM
#155
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
I swore I wouldn't reply to anything on this thread again but yes, Mdelzer, that is exactly what happened. When I ordered my ME 109 from RCScaleProducts, they have you click to SkyShark for more details. SkyShark then tells you everything that is in the kit which includes all fiberglass parts. Now after I received the kit, I noticed that there were no fiberglass parts but plastic and ALL I WANTED TO KNOW WAS WHY??? Is there anyone here who wouldn't want to know if this happened to them? What it came down to was a simple lack of communication or advertising and nothing more. I did not know that the kit was an older version that didn't have the fiberglass parts. I have checked and checked up until RCScaleProducts raised their prices and no where did it state anything about getting an "older" kit without the fiberglass parts. My mistake was not contacting RCScaleProducts first before replying on here to find out my why this happened. The reason I posted on here was to warn, help, whatever, in case anyone on here had the same problem.
Yesterday I called Mike at SkyShark to apologize for the problem that came out of my post and we had a nice talk about the industry and his company. I explained to him what had happened and he agreed with me, there was a lack of communication somewhere. I do understand the position he is in and what he is up against. From our talk I was really impressed with his interest of making quality kits. I also found out that there are only two of them doing this, him and his wife. This is a small family business. Now as for his prices, I still think and I told him his prices were to high. He explained his cost, his quality of materials in his kits, all his cost and I will agree with him, he has to get a high price to make a profit or it simply isn't worth the time and trouble of doing this. Now we as modelers have to decide if we want to pay a higher price for a quality kit or go someplace else with our money. Do you want a Cadillac or a Chevrolet? On a business standpoint, what will the market handle? Is there a market out there for SkyShark? Time will tell. How many times have we seen businesses close their doors and then we tell ourselves, "if they had lowered their prices they wouldn't have had to close"? What we don't understand is the cost to them to stay in business with paying out Social Security, advertising, taxes, utilities, etc. It's hard for the little guy to stay in business today.
I, in a way, could have the same problem as Mike. Do any of you remember the Vortac bombs and releases? I have been talking with the owner of that company about buying the tooling and rights to produce those bombs again. So, do I pay big bucks for the rights and tooling, pay the price of materiels for the bombs and releases, pay the cost of utilities to run the machines, pay the taxes on what profit I might make and most importantly for me, do I want to devote my time to this? I just don't know, it's a big step for me to make. I'm retired and have a lot of free time but to get into this, it will take the time I now take to ride my Harley all over the country, go out to the field almost everyday and fly and take away from my time here at home. The only way I would tackle this is I have to charge a high price to make it worth while. Unlike SkyShark who is already in business, I have the option to not get into this venture so nobody can say I charge to high a price. The question comes down to this, will the public pay my price or do I continue spending my time riding, building kits and flying?
I'll end this with just one more thing. I'm very happy with the kit I received and for the price I paid. I never thought that I was cheated by anyone. Even if I want to purchase the figerglass parts, it still was a great deal and to me, it was no big deal. Oh, one other thing, I have tried to call RCScaleProducts and received no answer yesterday but will on here apologize to them for all the flack they received. As I had told Mike at SkyShark, if only they had advertised the kit without the fiberglass parts, this would not have happened. We both agreed, it was just a slip up and nothing more.
Larry
Yesterday I called Mike at SkyShark to apologize for the problem that came out of my post and we had a nice talk about the industry and his company. I explained to him what had happened and he agreed with me, there was a lack of communication somewhere. I do understand the position he is in and what he is up against. From our talk I was really impressed with his interest of making quality kits. I also found out that there are only two of them doing this, him and his wife. This is a small family business. Now as for his prices, I still think and I told him his prices were to high. He explained his cost, his quality of materials in his kits, all his cost and I will agree with him, he has to get a high price to make a profit or it simply isn't worth the time and trouble of doing this. Now we as modelers have to decide if we want to pay a higher price for a quality kit or go someplace else with our money. Do you want a Cadillac or a Chevrolet? On a business standpoint, what will the market handle? Is there a market out there for SkyShark? Time will tell. How many times have we seen businesses close their doors and then we tell ourselves, "if they had lowered their prices they wouldn't have had to close"? What we don't understand is the cost to them to stay in business with paying out Social Security, advertising, taxes, utilities, etc. It's hard for the little guy to stay in business today.
I, in a way, could have the same problem as Mike. Do any of you remember the Vortac bombs and releases? I have been talking with the owner of that company about buying the tooling and rights to produce those bombs again. So, do I pay big bucks for the rights and tooling, pay the price of materiels for the bombs and releases, pay the cost of utilities to run the machines, pay the taxes on what profit I might make and most importantly for me, do I want to devote my time to this? I just don't know, it's a big step for me to make. I'm retired and have a lot of free time but to get into this, it will take the time I now take to ride my Harley all over the country, go out to the field almost everyday and fly and take away from my time here at home. The only way I would tackle this is I have to charge a high price to make it worth while. Unlike SkyShark who is already in business, I have the option to not get into this venture so nobody can say I charge to high a price. The question comes down to this, will the public pay my price or do I continue spending my time riding, building kits and flying?
I'll end this with just one more thing. I'm very happy with the kit I received and for the price I paid. I never thought that I was cheated by anyone. Even if I want to purchase the figerglass parts, it still was a great deal and to me, it was no big deal. Oh, one other thing, I have tried to call RCScaleProducts and received no answer yesterday but will on here apologize to them for all the flack they received. As I had told Mike at SkyShark, if only they had advertised the kit without the fiberglass parts, this would not have happened. We both agreed, it was just a slip up and nothing more.
Larry
10-13-2006, 09:26 AM
#156
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
I have been following this thread for the past week and i just needed to add my two cents. I have built Pica, Top Filght and Maratuka kits and the Skyshark me109G surpasses all of them. The quality, customer service and flight characteristics of the 109 are far superior to the other manufacturers.
I just received my Skyshark fw190A kit and I look forward to building this model this winter. I am from the old school and i think it is more enjoyable to build something with your own hands and watch it fly than to "assemble" an ARF. At my field I am the only scale flyer with a truley unigue model that stands out from the standard P51's etc. My 109 is done in Italian airforce colors which makes it stand out even more from your standard ARF warbirds.
I think the Skyshark kits were not priced right from the beginning I always wondered how they could make any money off of these kits. But i hope Skyshark conitnues offering their line of kits and i will deffinitly be getting another one in the future. I just wish they would consider doing a Japanese Tony in the future.
I just received my Skyshark fw190A kit and I look forward to building this model this winter. I am from the old school and i think it is more enjoyable to build something with your own hands and watch it fly than to "assemble" an ARF. At my field I am the only scale flyer with a truley unigue model that stands out from the standard P51's etc. My 109 is done in Italian airforce colors which makes it stand out even more from your standard ARF warbirds.
I think the Skyshark kits were not priced right from the beginning I always wondered how they could make any money off of these kits. But i hope Skyshark conitnues offering their line of kits and i will deffinitly be getting another one in the future. I just wish they would consider doing a Japanese Tony in the future.
10-13-2006, 09:27 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Larry,
Thank you for the great post. You're correct. It was simply a miscommunication between us and Skyshark. We were not aware they were putting the glass parts in their kits now. However, we state EXACTLY what you received on our site. Unfortunately this is turned into a much larger issue than it should be. I got on my soapbox because basically someone (who know NOTHING about me or this situation but insisted on sticking their nose in anyway) called me/my company a liar and I really didn't appreciate that. Anyone who knows me know why I do what I do in this hobby and what R/C Scale Products is all about. I was just happy you were able to get a GREAT DEAL on one of their kits. Yes, you may have had to wait a bit while it was cut but look how much you saved! Anyway, the situation is remedied now and I'm just glad you have your kit and hope you enjoy it for many years to come. If you have any other questions please feel free to email me directly (you have my email address) as I will no longer be monitoring this thread.
Again, thanks to you and those that purchased kits from us!
Mike
Mike
Thank you for the great post. You're correct. It was simply a miscommunication between us and Skyshark. We were not aware they were putting the glass parts in their kits now. However, we state EXACTLY what you received on our site. Unfortunately this is turned into a much larger issue than it should be. I got on my soapbox because basically someone (who know NOTHING about me or this situation but insisted on sticking their nose in anyway) called me/my company a liar and I really didn't appreciate that. Anyone who knows me know why I do what I do in this hobby and what R/C Scale Products is all about. I was just happy you were able to get a GREAT DEAL on one of their kits. Yes, you may have had to wait a bit while it was cut but look how much you saved! Anyway, the situation is remedied now and I'm just glad you have your kit and hope you enjoy it for many years to come. If you have any other questions please feel free to email me directly (you have my email address) as I will no longer be monitoring this thread.
Again, thanks to you and those that purchased kits from us!
Mike
Mike
10-13-2006, 09:31 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
My CL Corsair and labradoodle and Labradoodle when pissed.
Thank you Mike, all is cool. Putting some pics to lighten this thread up.
Thank you Mike, all is cool. Putting some pics to lighten this thread up.
10-13-2006, 09:53 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Now that was uncalled for and just plain rude Mike! I'm disappointed to see you'd insult my countrymen this way. Its also disappointing that an RCU moderator didn't step in. I've lived 5 of the last 7 years in the US and if there's one thing I learned while down there it was that I have a lot to be proud of as a Canadian! Enough said. I'm pissed-off enough.
10-13-2006, 09:59 AM
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LOL.. cool dog Larry!
ORIGINAL: Larry S
My CL Corsair and labradoodle and Labradoodle when pissed.
Thank you Mike, all is cool. Putting some pics to lighten this thread up.
My CL Corsair and labradoodle and Labradoodle when pissed.
Thank you Mike, all is cool. Putting some pics to lighten this thread up.
10-13-2006, 10:45 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Yeah, she is a cool dog,
rides on the back seat of my Harley and goes to the flying field with me. Even at the field, guys will ask, "Where's Heidi". She's everybody's buddy out there. A time back, I lost her in the woods and I had guys help me look for her and everyone was concerned for her safety because of the coyotes might kill her if not found. What a great club I belong to, great bunch of guys. I was lucky, she was found but I didn't know it until the next day after spending two days and one cold night walking those woods looking for her. She had been found just after I lost her along the road by a family who took her home but because our animal control didn't open till the next day at noon, they couldn't contact them to trace the dog back to me. She had tags. I learned my lesson, she stays on a leash now when walking in the woods. Thank God for good, honest people or I would have lost my best buddy because of my stupidy on not having her leashed.
Larry
rides on the back seat of my Harley and goes to the flying field with me. Even at the field, guys will ask, "Where's Heidi". She's everybody's buddy out there. A time back, I lost her in the woods and I had guys help me look for her and everyone was concerned for her safety because of the coyotes might kill her if not found. What a great club I belong to, great bunch of guys. I was lucky, she was found but I didn't know it until the next day after spending two days and one cold night walking those woods looking for her. She had been found just after I lost her along the road by a family who took her home but because our animal control didn't open till the next day at noon, they couldn't contact them to trace the dog back to me. She had tags. I learned my lesson, she stays on a leash now when walking in the woods. Thank God for good, honest people or I would have lost my best buddy because of my stupidy on not having her leashed.
Larry
10-13-2006, 10:55 AM
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
ORIGINAL: Larry S
My CL Corsair and labradoodle and Labradoodle when pissed.
Putting some pics to lighten this thread up.
My CL Corsair and labradoodle and Labradoodle when pissed.
Putting some pics to lighten this thread up.
What a cute dog...when not pissed
.Please don't take offense to this, since I know you put a lot of effort into the corsair, but your dog is MUCH cuter!
If that she not a long-hair Dachshund, is she a Dachspaniel?
10-13-2006, 11:45 AM
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Hey SkySharkgirl,
are the pictures of the girl holding the planes you?? If yes, I can see why Mike takes so long to get his kits out. LOLOLOL
Larry
are the pictures of the girl holding the planes you?? If yes, I can see why Mike takes so long to get his kits out.
LOLOLOLLarry
10-13-2006, 11:48 AM
#165
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Location: Bloomsbury,
NJ
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
You really gotta watch out for those weinner dogs, they'll run you over like a freight train. Mine certainly will. She may be a minature, blind, diabetic weinner dog but as you can tell she's a reall man eater.
[img][/img]
Sorry, WAY off topic, but I couldn't resist.
[img][/img]
Sorry, WAY off topic, but I couldn't resist.
10-13-2006, 12:02 PM
#166
Senior Member
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Location: Manteno,
IL
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
David B,
this whole thread is going to the dogs. lolol You have a cute "weinner dog" there. Gotta love em.
Since we're on a lighter note then previous days, I'll copy and paste an E mail I just received from one our club members. Hope you like.
MILITARY WISDOM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death ... I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."
- At the entrance to the old SR-71 operating base Kadena, Japan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3."
- Paul F. Crickmore (test pilot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Blue water Navy truism: There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky."
- From an old carrier sailor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Without ammunition, the USAF would be just another expensive flying club."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots?
If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; If ATC screws up, .... The pilot dies."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never trade luck for skill."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" And "Oh S...!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Weather forecasts are horoscopes with numbers."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Progress in airline flying: now a flight attendant can get a pilot pregnant."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Airspeed, altitude and brains. Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A smooth landing is mostly luck; two in a row is all luck; three in a row is prevarication."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mankind has a perfect record in aviation; we never left one up there!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When a flight is proceeding incredibly well, something was forgotten."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just remember, if you crash because of weather, your funeral will be held on a sunny day."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advice given to RAF pilots during WWII: "When a prang (crash) seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you." - Attributed to Max Stanley (Northrop test pilot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A pilot who doesn't have any fear probably isn't flying his plane to its maximum." - Jon McBride, astronaut
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover (renowned aerobatic and test pilot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never fly in the same cockpit with someone braver than you."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime." - Sign over squadron ops desk at Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ, 1970
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full
power to taxi to the terminal."
this whole thread is going to the dogs. lolol You have a cute "weinner dog" there. Gotta love em.
Since we're on a lighter note then previous days, I'll copy and paste an E mail I just received from one our club members. Hope you like.
MILITARY WISDOM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death ... I Shall Fear No Evil. For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."
- At the entrance to the old SR-71 operating base Kadena, Japan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3."
- Paul F. Crickmore (test pilot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Blue water Navy truism: There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky."
- From an old carrier sailor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Without ammunition, the USAF would be just another expensive flying club."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots?
If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; If ATC screws up, .... The pilot dies."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never trade luck for skill."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in aviation are: "Why is it doing that?", "Where are we?" And "Oh S...!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Weather forecasts are horoscopes with numbers."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Progress in airline flying: now a flight attendant can get a pilot pregnant."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Airspeed, altitude and brains. Two are always needed to successfully complete the flight."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A smooth landing is mostly luck; two in a row is all luck; three in a row is prevarication."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mankind has a perfect record in aviation; we never left one up there!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When a flight is proceeding incredibly well, something was forgotten."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just remember, if you crash because of weather, your funeral will be held on a sunny day."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advice given to RAF pilots during WWII: "When a prang (crash) seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you." - Attributed to Max Stanley (Northrop test pilot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A pilot who doesn't have any fear probably isn't flying his plane to its maximum." - Jon McBride, astronaut
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover (renowned aerobatic and test pilot)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never fly in the same cockpit with someone braver than you."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime." - Sign over squadron ops desk at Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ, 1970
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about to."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You know that your landing gear is up and locked when it takes full
power to taxi to the terminal."
10-13-2006, 01:27 PM
#167
RE: Skyshark kit prices
I support Skyshark for charging these prices. Maurataka AKA Royal kits are retailing for about the same prices yet are dogbarf quality compared to Skyshark. Yet we continue to buy them, and pay huge prices for their discontinued kits.
Folks, we are talking about a small manufacturer that makes to order high quality kits for a very specific market, we cannot compare them to high volume kit cutters like Top Flight. My next warbird will be their SBD.
However, one thing that a business owner should never do is participate in an open forum on the internet and try to defend their actions, all they do is seem to make matters worse for themselves.
Scott
Folks, we are talking about a small manufacturer that makes to order high quality kits for a very specific market, we cannot compare them to high volume kit cutters like Top Flight. My next warbird will be their SBD.
However, one thing that a business owner should never do is participate in an open forum on the internet and try to defend their actions, all they do is seem to make matters worse for themselves.
Scott
10-13-2006, 01:32 PM
#168
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Location: sacramento, CA
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Mike, I think you missed the point of my post, and I probablly wasn't clear but let me try again.... It's very disheartening for me as a modeler to hear a manufacturer put down another manufacturer. I've worked on the retail side of the business and am well aware of the prejudices of experienced builders and fliers, and I have seen many newbies to OUR hobby get discouraged because they showed up to a club or flying site with their "crappy-not made in the USA ARF" or their "semi scale less popular kit". These newbies often become so discouraged by the lack of comraderie by some modelers that they quit OUR hobby. And lets face it alot of our pride and identity go into our airplanes regardless of manufacturer. So I hate it (and maybe I'm overlly sensitive???) when a manufacturer, a LEADER in the hobby puts down a kit by another manufacturer. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I want you to understand that I am a SkyShark customer. I bought two kits from you, despite the fact I have a stack of kits NIB, not only because i wanted the planes but also because i wanted to support my LHS and I wanted to support YOUR company.
The guys a Skyhark and the guys at Heritage have great products, I don't think anyone is arguing that. But there is a place for other companies. As a builder, I love variety, and seeing how different designers attack the same problems and the ingenius way they solve these problems. For me the mental stimulation I get just studying the plans and parts of a kit is half the fun of getting a new kit, and then there's building and flying and crashing. And it's a sad day when you crash your pride and joy but hey, then you have room to build and store another one.
So, if I do buy that F4U, and when I do crash it. I will be looking for a new kit. I hope to build another P39 and i have one NIB. But maybe SkyShark will come along with something new to beat it out???????
The guys a Skyhark and the guys at Heritage have great products, I don't think anyone is arguing that. But there is a place for other companies. As a builder, I love variety, and seeing how different designers attack the same problems and the ingenius way they solve these problems. For me the mental stimulation I get just studying the plans and parts of a kit is half the fun of getting a new kit, and then there's building and flying and crashing. And it's a sad day when you crash your pride and joy but hey, then you have room to build and store another one.
So, if I do buy that F4U, and when I do crash it. I will be looking for a new kit. I hope to build another P39 and i have one NIB. But maybe SkyShark will come along with something new to beat it out???????
10-13-2006, 04:12 PM
#170
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FL
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
I have my next throw together plane, a Skyshark p-40 on the table. Its not great but definitely not too terrible. I hope it is the last plane I ever get from Skyshark. I try to support all the warbird kit designers and manufacturers. There are many nasty characters out there selling stuff to us with dubious service. Nevertheless I still have three Ironbay kits on the boards no matter what the reviews of their service. After Mikes self inflated drivel on this thread I will try my best to stay away from his company. If the p-40 crashes you can guarantee I wont be taking you up on the crash insurance. You disgust me with your attitude. Your comments on not selling to Canada because they are a bunch of whiners tied it for me. It's not that you are politically incorrect, Its because you are rude and crass. Knocking top-flite to make your planes sound better is just pitiful. I learned more from building my first full kit, the top-flite Spitfire than I did from any other single kit I have built, though that was a long time ago. The instructions and tips were great, the Spitfire flies good too.Top-Flite have some of the best flying big birds out there and they are all at least as scale as your P-40.
I said to you in another thread that when you get on these forums and argue it is like wrestling a pig, all you do is get dirty and after a while you realise the pig is enjoying it. Well this time you got too dirty for me.
At least this frees me up to discuss the failings of your P-40, up till now I did not mention anything as I try to be suppotive of the kit manufacturers. I will never recommend you another beginner.
I lived in Canada for six months, I never heard as much whining there in six months as I did in reading this thread.
Surely this wont be reported for content as I can surely comment on you as much as you can insult the whole of Canada. By the way, I am not Canadian, just tired of you condescending attitude.
Good Luck
Paul
I said to you in another thread that when you get on these forums and argue it is like wrestling a pig, all you do is get dirty and after a while you realise the pig is enjoying it. Well this time you got too dirty for me.
At least this frees me up to discuss the failings of your P-40, up till now I did not mention anything as I try to be suppotive of the kit manufacturers. I will never recommend you another beginner.
I lived in Canada for six months, I never heard as much whining there in six months as I did in reading this thread.
Surely this wont be reported for content as I can surely comment on you as much as you can insult the whole of Canada. By the way, I am not Canadian, just tired of you condescending attitude.
Good Luck
Paul
10-13-2006, 05:00 PM
#171
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Location: Cape Coral FL
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
Paul: You are not eligable for the crash free guarantee because you purchased it off ebay at a deep discount. If you were that unhappy with the plane or me, in general, you should have returned the plane for a refund. In the last P-40 thread, you posted about how you didn't like my heavy handed style but yet you purchased one of our products anyway. I don't expect everyone to like me or agree with what I have to say but if you have a valid complaint (backed up with facts) about the construction or flying attributes of our planes, I will take it seriously. Our goal is to put out the best quality products at the best possible prices with the goal of making just enough to stay in business. I realize that everyone has different standards so I would be interested to hear where you are finding better quality 82" warbird ARFs for $400.00. At least then we can set a basis for your comments and perhaps work on our quality so it is up to "industry standards".
I really find it funny that people can go on here and rip me because they can't (or don't want to) afford our products - even though many of them have never even seen anything we manufacture. Yet, when I make a comment about the quality of a kit or ARF that I have actually owned, built and flown (even though I don't directly compete with them), some people get all upset and think that I should be censored. At least my complaints are valid and are something that could be fixed by the manufacturer. The only way that we can change our pricing is if we lower the quality of the kits. Of course, that would alienate our entire customer base and probably put us out of business in short order. I don't have a problem with people coming on here with a valid complaint because we normally take care of the issue but to come on here just to complain for the sake of complaining is a total waste of time and energy.[sm=angry_smile.gif]
The way some people here act, I'm really surprised that RCU has any advertisers left.
I really find it funny that people can go on here and rip me because they can't (or don't want to) afford our products - even though many of them have never even seen anything we manufacture. Yet, when I make a comment about the quality of a kit or ARF that I have actually owned, built and flown (even though I don't directly compete with them), some people get all upset and think that I should be censored. At least my complaints are valid and are something that could be fixed by the manufacturer. The only way that we can change our pricing is if we lower the quality of the kits. Of course, that would alienate our entire customer base and probably put us out of business in short order. I don't have a problem with people coming on here with a valid complaint because we normally take care of the issue but to come on here just to complain for the sake of complaining is a total waste of time and energy.[sm=angry_smile.gif]
The way some people here act, I'm really surprised that RCU has any advertisers left.
10-13-2006, 05:41 PM
#172
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Skyshark kit prices
Mike dont kid yourself , RCU is by far the most powerful RC web based product in the world . I had a problem with a builder , posted my honest comments and guess.... what kits started being cancelled left and right . I finally got a call from the builder and the situation was resolved , not the best situation but better then a total loss all because of the power of RCU and its members .
This forum is the best area for people who want to sell anything Rc related , I would challenge any mag , web site , ebay ect to compete with sales of an item that an RCU forum or ad generates .
Look at the hits on Top Flight Giant scale P51 , H9 corsair , if you were to forecast numbers and take a % of people who buy based on the RCU build , I bet its high and vice versa . If the kit is bad , I also bet it steers people away .
What I dont get about this particular forum on skyshark is that a simple -features /benifits on your planes could have closed a ton of comments . I think your kits are first class , but i think you need help on the selling side , the message is clear in your products but not in your words or attempts to state your obvious quality .
That is coming from me , a VP of Sales , 24 years with major food company , 100% involved in training /selling and romancing products -all this at the young age of 46 lol [8D]
This forum is the best area for people who want to sell anything Rc related , I would challenge any mag , web site , ebay ect to compete with sales of an item that an RCU forum or ad generates .
Look at the hits on Top Flight Giant scale P51 , H9 corsair , if you were to forecast numbers and take a % of people who buy based on the RCU build , I bet its high and vice versa . If the kit is bad , I also bet it steers people away .
What I dont get about this particular forum on skyshark is that a simple -features /benifits on your planes could have closed a ton of comments . I think your kits are first class , but i think you need help on the selling side , the message is clear in your products but not in your words or attempts to state your obvious quality .
That is coming from me , a VP of Sales , 24 years with major food company , 100% involved in training /selling and romancing products -all this at the young age of 46 lol [8D]
10-13-2006, 06:51 PM
#174
RE: Skyshark kit prices
On the original reason for this thread, kit prices; I have often thought of buying a Skyshark kit, the ME109E, but wanted a larger plane. I have seen a masterpiece built from thier kit (ok, go ahead and preen 190Dave, you deserve it). I thought that the price was pretty high but it did come with alot of accesories, now with the price hike I doubt I will ever buy one. Am I cheap? Probably. Do I apprecieat the quality of the Skyshark kits? Yes. To each his own. I dont beleive in bashing a product because I think the price is too high, this is an expensive hobby afterall.
Its good that there is a forum availible to share your feelings though,bashing this Forum because people are allowed to do so is not cool.
Bashing any group of people (in this case Canadians) because of your personal prejudice (Predudice-an emotional, ridgid attitude against members of another group) is also not cool.
Bashing a competitor.As a business owner I know very well that it is a very bad idea to bash a competitor, I might not agree with thier business practices or thier product but the customer see's you as in a poor light for venting in front of them. I just smile and tell the customer that the "other guys" are good but I think that I am better and I would like the opportunity to prove it to them.I have never had an unhappy customer (that I know of).
To sum up;
Nice kits
High prices (but not astonomical)
Very poor attitude with people that annoy you, whatever the reasons that they have.
It is the poor attitude more than anything else that would diswade me from purchasing Skyshark.
If anyone is unhappy with my comments...
They can ignore them.
They can reply, hopefully with a wellthought out responce that does not involve a personal attack.
They can go to a forum that is moderated in thier favor. (They are out there)
Have a nice day.
Its good that there is a forum availible to share your feelings though,bashing this Forum because people are allowed to do so is not cool.
Bashing any group of people (in this case Canadians) because of your personal prejudice (Predudice-an emotional, ridgid attitude against members of another group) is also not cool.
Bashing a competitor.As a business owner I know very well that it is a very bad idea to bash a competitor, I might not agree with thier business practices or thier product but the customer see's you as in a poor light for venting in front of them. I just smile and tell the customer that the "other guys" are good but I think that I am better and I would like the opportunity to prove it to them.I have never had an unhappy customer (that I know of).
To sum up;
Nice kits
High prices (but not astonomical)
Very poor attitude with people that annoy you, whatever the reasons that they have.
It is the poor attitude more than anything else that would diswade me from purchasing Skyshark.
If anyone is unhappy with my comments...
They can ignore them.
They can reply, hopefully with a wellthought out responce that does not involve a personal attack.
They can go to a forum that is moderated in thier favor. (They are out there)
Have a nice day.
10-13-2006, 07:13 PM
#175
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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RE: Skyshark kit prices
I got on my soapbox because basically someone (who know NOTHING about me or this situation but insisted on sticking their nose in anyway) called me/my company a liar and I really didn't appreciate that.
Mark