bbfly

Earlier this year i recieved some documentation from Ghost so i could get started on my Byron F-16
I have followed this thread for a while and i will start soon.
My Byron is all raw so there is some work to be done.

one thing that came to my mind... would it be possible to install a turbine ?
I guess the model would have to be strenghed here and there, but would it work?

/brian

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Brian,

It has been done before, but with generally low powered turbines. The airframe is quite light and they say that it is not stressed for the power of a turbine. Now, having said that, i have 14lbs of thrust in mine and it holds up fine????

One area would be the total weight. you would be a heavier ready to fly because of the all the fuel you would need to carry.

So most people say leave the byrons as EDF and buy another F-16 that has been built for turbine. Up to you really. I think it can be done.

Thanks

dave

bbfly

- well it was also just a thought.
Few months ago i had a talk with Fred who makes the Dyn-e-max fan, and after that im sure it is the right thing to use.

anyway, i just saw the pictures of the landing gear carbon thing. exellent! - My kit came with fixed, so im sure i will copy this idear ;o)
I also plan to make a duct for it so i can get rid of the cheater hole.



/brian

Max1965

bbfly I would not try to do away with the cheaterhole. Those of us who have flown Byrons converted to E-power know this does not work. Install your choice of power and if you must do any work on the airframe then pay attention to the rear stab and fin. Also get rid of the rats nest of pushrods....install your aeliron servos in the wing.....then go fly.

bbfly

maybe i'll just put some aluminium net over the cheater hole to make it look more "complete"
I was thinking - to avoid any dirt going into the fan. I heard that the cheater hole makes a kind of vakuum .

rvincent

Hi Ghost, ticketec, Max,
There have been TONS of specs put out about the XPS set up. We have flown the set ups in 2 seperate events for the public now too.


It goes like this;

650 Kv

Dynamax Fan, Xtreme Scream Motor weight = 3.1lbs including CCHV-110

10S = 12.7lbs thrust, 87 amps, 3400 watts, 22,780 rpm's, 197 mph efflux

!2S = 15.5lbs thrust, 105 amps, 4400 watts, 25,700 rpms, 232 mph efflux

15S = 20.8lbs thrust, 152 amps, 8300 watts, 30,280 rpm's, 323 mph efflux

Fan and motor pre-assembled, pre-balanced, and test run $430

Motor alone $149.99 available from Littlescreamer direct of Robert at EJF. Robert will also be selling adapters to fit Byron fans. I don't have that price, please contact Robert directly. Motors have been delivered to us and have been shipped to XPS. They will be assemblying the units and selling them most likely by weeks end

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey Bob,

Do you have any data for your motor in the byron fan??

The benchmark for me is the current performance of my setup which is: 11s, byrofan+scorpion 630kv, 104A 14lbs thrust.

These figures were measured with the fan installed in the airframe.

Thanks

Dave

bbfly

Dave,

Have you had the chance to test the new landing gear? Im thinking of making the same carbon replacement instead of the aluminium plate for the landing gear.

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey BBfly,

How is your choice of fan/motor coming along?

Well, the good news is that the F-16 is completed and ready to fly, the bad news is that the weather here has been really bad for the last week!!![:@] very unusual for this part of the world!

Pic 1 shows why i was distracted for a period of time and so why it took me a while to complete the F-16, but i just got sick of it not being ready to fly that i spent all saturday on it finishing off all the jobs that needed doing. All that is left now is to check the CoG before the next flight.

Here is a video of the retracts in operation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jqQHoIUvp4

I have also bought another set of packs for her so i can now test out, 10,11 and 12s. the new packs are the turnigy branded ones and they are somaller and lighter than the Zippy-H's i have. I also now see that HC have release 5800mah series of packs. this might just be enough to extend the flight times to almost 5mins. I would be much happier then!

Thanks

dave

bbfly

Well Dave, I decided to go for the XPS system.
I recieved it last week, and i have to say thati cant wait to put some power into it
I ordered the byron plywood adapter ring aswell, so it should not be any issue to fit the dynamax fan.
And the service from XPS is top $, so i can only recommend.
As soon as i have finished another project that im working on, i will def. spend hours on my byron. I have promised myself, that i'd have it flying before summer. ( have not said what year ;o) )

From what i know, you should have summer right now? change place with me. No wind last couple of days, but freezing

That turbine looks nice. What model is it going into, or is it just one of these "must have for later projects" ;o)

I hope you get to test the carbon brackets very soon. If they last the first flights, im sure to make the same instead of the aluminium lg brackets.
My kit came with fixed lg. cant have that...

The new turnigy 5800 looks like the one to use. i also saw them the other day.
I have a turnigy 5000 4S for another jet, and these are very good pack's, but i hope they soon will have the new G3 lipo packs.
I have a few G3 from hyperion, and there is a differens in performance, but also in price


Brian

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey BBfly,

It would be great to see how you go with the XPS system. There is a thread on RCG by a guy doing exactly what you intend on doing. It seems to have stalled a bit, and i'm not sure how he is going to get around the fact the the fan is now positioned right where the retracts would normally sit. I'm this you. I flew the F-16 a few times with fixed gear and it just drove me nuts!

It should be summer here, and for the last 3-4 years almost every summer afternoon was perfect for flying, but this year the weather is aweful![&:] I have never had such a long string of days were i could go out for a fly... The 16 is ready and waiting though.

The Wren is going into a "falcon 120" which is a knockoff of the BVM bobcat. pic below. I want to get some turbine experience up and then i am thinking about selling it and the byron F-16 and buying something like the skymaster F-16 with scale gear, etc. It just depends on whether i can fly it from our current field. I don't want to get myself into a position where i can't fly a model unless i go to a particular club. The Falcon 120 is almost exactly the same dimensions as the byron, but i has a litte more wing area. which did make me stop and think about it for a second... too many mods. Although there is a guy here in Oz who has made a mold of the byron F-16 fuse and asked me to make him a resonable offer... i could then lay up a fuse accordingly... but still to much work.

Thanks

dave

bbfly

Correct me if im wrong, but you considered selling the Byron F-16?
I was adviced the same and get at new f-16 that was ment for turbine, but no. I love this old timer.
it wasin one of these moment where i believed i could throw in a turbine in the old lady..

Yes, im also following Billy's thread on RCG with great interrest. I believe it was the thread that made me decide.

So you had a thougt on using the wings from the falcon with the new f-16 fuse? Interesting.. )

and about your weather.. >>> Global warming ;o)
so:
Stop Global warming -fly electric

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Well, had to get up pretty early sunday morning to beat the winds but we managed to get the first flight with retracts and the cockpit installed done!

She seemed "heavier" even thought the weight increase was not that much. Having said that, there is a lot more "junk" in the way of the fan, and that could account for why she was significantly drag'ier. I think that the big cutout for the nose gear was causing it's fair share of drag as was the nose gear retract in the intake.

I will try and make a fairing for the nose retract, and get a nose gear door installed. anyways I have also done some research and am confident that my current setup can handle 12s, so i will try that for the next flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyOjckIdJ8k

Thanks

dave

P.s. have to fix the sidewinder fins as well!!

bbfly

Nice cockpitand video
Im still wondering how to fix it so it can be removed easily at the field for batt. change/charge.
looks like i can go ahead and make the Carbon brackets now ;o)

I also had some thoughts about drag from nose gear, but i a few ppl who can give me some advices.
From what i have read over the last months, the Byron fan moves large amount of air as for the XPS system, it give more speed.

looking forward to hear about the 12S test.
As for the servo choice. I guess i should get some 10kg+ all way around?

/brian

The Ghost

Dave, Looks great on the ground and in the air.

Brian, you don't need the 10kg+ servos as they used standard servos in the 80's. Good precision servos will be better and make shure that there is no play in any of the linkages as the flying stab is a very large surface and a couple of thou at the servo = large movement at the stab edge.

Cheers

bbfly

ok, so 10kg is to much..

How about BMS-380MAX Micro Servo (Metal Gear) 4.1kg / .16sec / 17.4g
I have some 380 MG ( 3,6kg) for my F9 Panther im building and they seem to be quite strong and center quite well...?
Perhaps to small?

These also look ok to me if size matters:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s.../_.18sec_/_34g


Dave, one more thing.. what scale is your pilot and where did you get it?


/brian

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Ghost!

BBfly,

ghost is correct, back in the day they were flown with 1 standard sized servo for both the elevators!!!! I have a pair of Digital Hitec 5645MG in mine running at 6V so 12kg. Nice to have but not nessesary. If you go to the jet forum there is a really good thread on how to actually calculate the correct size of servo required for the surface. It would be an interesting execise to go though. ah, here you go, i just found it:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9257664/tm.htm

My pilot and cockpit are 1/8 scale and are from fly eagle jet. it's not that great a quality and fairly heavy for their size i thought. I decided to repaint mine which, after much shopping around, i ended up getting mine new for about $99 USD. I will post pic's of how mine is installed, which i don't have to remove to install the packs, but i do have to take out to put air into the retracts[:@] so i will be moving the fill valve shortly!

Thanks

dave

bbfly

Thanks Dave,

Just did some rough calc on that xls sheet,by guessingand ended up with some 4-5 kg servos for the ailerons. I will measure aileron when i get home.
I was thinking that i would install the servo's in the wing instead of inside the fuse, thats why i have all these questions about the servo choice..
But does it work fine with inside install? - The model does look better with servo hidden..

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Don't know. I don't have the ailerons operational!!! I'm flying taileron only.

bbfly

and it seem to work ok from the flight vid.

buckarooo

My Feedback: (7)

Nice looking bird Dave. She is flying real good. It looks like the scorpion 630 is the ticket for the Byron. I like the XPS system too but with the added weight I think its best suited for a larger airframe. About how much are you putting back in those 5000 packs after a 4 minute flight? It will be interesting to compare your results 10,11 and 12S. That little Scorpion must be built well to handle 4000+ watts. Good job mate!

Cheers,
Dean

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks mate!

I just charged the packs up and i have put about 3200mah back into them so i will extend the next flights out to 4:30 and see how they go. The Scorpions are a strong little beastie!!! There are a few guys flying them at 12s 114A WOT with only one ever experiencing a problem, but other than that, they seem to hold up fine! There is a scorpion thread on another forum and the US importer goes to great length to explain what and how a scorpion get builts and it seems like they can take heaps of punishment.

I want to go to 12s to get some more "jet" like performance, i.e more vertical, but at this stage, i tend to agree with you in regards to the XPS systems. an extra pound is a lot to lug around for only marginal increases in power at the same cell count.

I have started making the nose gear door this afternoon to try and address the increased drag i experienced.

Thanks

dave

bbfly

Dave, How much thrust you got on 11S and expect to get on 12S with your Byron fan?

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Hey BBfly,

At 11s i have just short of 14lbs thrust. I would expect to see around the 15-15.5lbs thrust for 12s. now this is taxing all my components to do this. especially my ESC.

I have made the fairing for the nose gear retracts and i'll post pic's of that tomorrow once it's dry. The nose gear door was also made today and i used a bit of evergreen plastic to give it some detail on the inside. Once painted and weathered it will look good. So, if the wind plays nice fr us this weekend i might get another flight in. this time, one flight will be with the original packs, and then the second flight will be with my new packs to see if there is any difference.

Thanks

dave

bbfly

Looks exellent Dave,
looking forward to read about your 12S test flight.

Im still in the planing stage so that i have everythingsorted outbefore i start early next year.

What landing gear is that you have in yours?
I have all the air stuff and the retracts, but still looking for a set of strouts.
Tamjets have a set for their 1:8, and i think it will fit well.
so now I have send a query to tamjets and asked if the can sell just the legs and not the full set.

/brian