Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

How about either the Dornier Do 17 or the Heinkel He 70? Thanks; Ernie P.

The Dornier Do 17, sometimes referred to as the Fliegender Bleistift ("flying pencil"), was a light bomber of Nazi Germany during World War II. It was produced by Claudius Dornier's company, Dornier Flugzeugwerke. The aircraft was designed as a Schnellbomber ("fast bomber"), a light bomber which, in theory, would be so fast that it could outrun defending fighter aircraft.The Dornier was designed with two engines mounted on a "shoulder wing" structure and possessed a twin tailfin configuration. The type was popular among its crews due to its handling, especially at low altitude, which made the Do 17 harder to hit than other German bombers.Designed in the early 1930s, it was one of the three main Luftwaffe bomber types used in the first three years of the war.

The Do 17 made its combat debut in 1937 during the Spanish Civil War, operating in the Condor Legion in various roles. Along with the Heinkel He 111 it was the main bomber type of the German air arm in 1939–1940. The Dornier was used throughout the early war, and saw action in significant numbers in every major campaign theatre as a front line aircraft until the end of 1941, when its effectiveness and usage was curtailed as its bomb load and range were limited.Production of the Dornier ended in mid-1940, in favour of the newer and more powerful Junkers Ju 88.

The successor of the Do 17 was the much more powerful Dornier Do 217, which started to appear in strength in 1942. Even so, the Do 17 continued service in the Luftwaffe in various roles until the end of the war, as a glider tug, research and trainer aircraft. A considerable number of surviving examples were sent to other Axis nations as well as countries like Finland. Few Dornier Do 17s survived the war and the last was scrapped in Finland in 1952.On 3 September 2010, the Royal Air Force Museum London announced the discovery of a Henschel-built Dornier Do 17Z buried in the Goodwin Sands off the coast of Kent, England. On 10 June 2013, the salvage team raised the airframe from the seabed.Development

In 1932, the Ordnance Department (Heereswaffenamt) issued a specification for the construction of a "freight aircraft for German State Railways", and a "high speed mail plane for Lufthansa". The factory at Friedrichshafen began work on the design on 1 August 1932. When the Nazis took power in 1933, Hermann Gφring became National Commissar for aviation with former Deutsche Luft Hansa employee Erhard Milch as his deputy, soon forming the Ministry of Aviation. The Ministry of Aviation designated the new aircraft Do 17, and on 17 March 1933, just three months after taking office, Milch gave the go ahead for the building of prototypes.

At the end of 1933, the Ministry of Aviation issued an order for a "high speed aircraft with double tail," and for a "freight aircraft with special equipment," in other words, a bomber. The original design (the Do 17 V1) configuration in 1932 had sported a single vertical stabilizer, and Dornier continued developing that model. The Do 17 was first demonstrated in mock-up form in April 1933. The "special equipment" was to be fitted later, to disguise its offensive role. In April 1934, the Dornier works at Manzell began project "definition." During this month, the defensive armament was designed and the bomb release mechanism details ironed out. Production of these prototypes began on 20 May 1934 and, on 23 November 1934, the Do 17 V1, with a single fin and powered by two BMW VI 7.3 motors, took off on its first flight. Testing was delayed by a series of accidents, with V1 being damaged in landing accidents in February and April 1935. The twin-tailed V2 (powered by low-compression BMW VI 6.3 engines) first flew on 18 May 1935 and was evaluated together with the V1 by the Ministry of Aviation at Rechlin in June. During the tests, the single fin proved to be only marginally stable, resulting in the V1 being modified with a twin tail. The aircraft was destroyed in a crash after an engine failure on 21 December 1935.

The V3, also fitted with a twin tail, was originally planned to be powered by Hispano-Suiza 12Ybrs engines, but as these were unavailable, it was fitted with BMW VI 7.3 engines like the V1 and flew on 19 September 1935. The V1 prototype remained the only built machine with the single stabilizer. It is claimed that, unlike the Heinkel He 111 series, whose military use was planned from the start, the Do 17 V1 was contracted as a fast six-passenger mail plane to compete with the smaller Heinkel He 70monoplane It has been suggested that it was rejected by Luft Hansa, as the cramped cabin was too uncomfortable for passenger use and the operating costs were too high for a mail plane.

According to the story, the three prototypes remained unused in the Dornier factory in Lowental for almost six months, until Flight Captain Untucht of Luft Hansa came across them. After receiving permission to fly one of the machines, he proceeded to put it through an almost stunt flying routine. After landing, he said that "the machine is as nimble as a fighter, give it more lateral stability and we'll have a high speed bomber!" Untucht's comments prompted Dornier to redesign the tail unit and revived interest in the type. Dornier was then ordered to produce the V4 prototype. Some sources state this differed from the V3 in that the passenger portholes were removed and the single fin was replaced with two smaller ones. Photographic evidence demonstrates the V3 had twin stabilizers from the start of its construction.

The tests of the "twin-tailed" V4, V6 and V7 prototypes were positive and more prototypes like the V8 emerged as the forerunner of the long-range reconnaissance version, while the V9 was tested as a high-speed airliner. The V9 machine was still flying in 1944.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

How about a KC-135 Stratotanker. or KC-10 Extender both were airplenrs that ended up modified to be AF tankers?

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

All good guesses, but not the plane I have in mind. This clue should narrow it down considerably.

Looking for the name of an airplane.

1. A somewhat-modified civilian plane.

2. The modifications to make this airplane suitable for military use were mostly to the fuselage.

3. One engine.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Well, that narrows it down to everything from the Cessna Model 305A/ Cessna L-19/O-1 Bird Dog to the Messerschmitt Bf 108/ Messerschmitt Bf 109. Until I get a few more clues, I'm just scratching around with the chickens. <smile> Thanks; Ernie P.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

The Graupner Messerschmitt Bf 108 is another discontinued kit I have on my watch list. It's harder to find then the Graupner Junkers JU-52 I recently acquired.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

OK, I'll narrow it down some more.

Looking for the name of an airplane.

1. A somewhat-modified civilian plane.

2. The modifications to make this airplane suitable for military use were mostly to the fuselage.

3. One engine.

4. Two seats.

Hydro Junkie

Sounds like the L-19 Bird Dog to me

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

It is indeed the L-19. Based on the Cessna 170, but with a different fuselage to improve visibility and Fowler flaps. The Cessna 170 was also turned into the Cessna 172, with tricycle landing gear and that newfangled Cessna tail. So you're up again, Hydro.

I didn't expect this one to go a long time, but that was faster than I'd thought.

Hydro Junkie

All I did was take the list Ernie put up and picked the most plausible one, as I saw it anyway. Since that is the case, I'm going to give Ernie the option of running one or I can, whichever he prefers.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Hydro Junkie; I have no pride of authorship. If you have a good candidate, take it away. Or, if you prefer, I can post something. Your choice, my friend; totally up to you. Just let me know. Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

Give me till this evening and I'll see what I can come up with.

Hydro Junkie

Okay guys, let's see if I can keep you going more than two clues this time.
Once again, I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

And, one more to sleep on:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

Looks like it's time for another clue:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
4) The redesign increased the plane's payload and crew without hurting performance
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

No guesses? Guess it's clue time:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
4) The redesign increased the plane's payload and crew without hurting performance
5) This aircraft had multiple configurations leading to several different ways it could be and was used. One way was, shall we say, highly innovative
Good Luck

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Hydro Junkie; from the outset, this sounded like the Junkers Ju 88. It's hard to judge this early on, but let's try it. Thanks; Ernie P.

The Junkers Ju 88 was a GermanWorld War IILuftwaffe twin-engined multirole combat aircraft. Junkers Flugzeug- und Motorenwerke (JFM) designed the plane in the mid-1930s as a so-called Schnellbomber (fast bomber) that would be too fast for fighters of its era to intercept. It suffered from a number of technical problems during its development and early operational periods but became one of the most versatile combat aircraft of the war. Like a number of other Luftwaffe bombers, it served as a bomber, dive bomber, night fighter, torpedo bomber, reconnaissance aircraft, heavy fighter and at the end of the war, as a flying bomb. Despite protracted development, it became one of the Luftwaffe's most important aircraft. The assembly line ran constantly from 1936 to 1945 and more than 16,000 Ju 88s were built in dozens of variants, more than any other twin-engine German aircraft of the period. Throughout production the basic structure of the aircraft remained unchanged. Design and development

In August 1935, the German Ministry of Aviation submitted its requirements for an unarmed, three-seat, high-speed bomber with a payload of 800–1,000 kg (1,760–2,200 lb). Design of the Ju-88 began with a study EF59 which evolved into two parallel designs, Ju-85 and Ju-88. "The Ju 85 was a twin-engined bomber aircraft prototype, designed by Junkers in 1935. The Reich Air Ministry requested the aircraft, which differed from the Ju 88 due to the use of a twin fin tail unit. The aircraft was never put into service.

Design was initiated by Junkers Chief Designer Ernst Zindel. He was assisted by Wilhelm Heinrich Evers and American engineer Alfred Gassner. Evers and Gassner had worked together at Fokkςer Aircraft Corporation of America where Gassner had been Chief Engineer. Junkers presented their initial design in June 1936, and were given clearance to build two prototypes (Werknummer 4941 and 4942). The first two aircraft were to have a range of 2,000 km (1,240 mi) and were to be powered by two DB 600s. Three further aircraft, Werknummer 4943, 4944 and 4945, were to be powered by Jumo 211 engines. The first two prototypes, Ju 88 V1 and V2, differed from the V3, V4 and V5 in that the latter three models were equipped with three defensive armament positions to the rear of the cockpit, and were able to carry two 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bombs, one under each inner wing panel.

The aircraft's first flight was made by the prototype Ju 88 V1, which bore the civil registration D-AQEN, on 21 December 1936. When it first flew, it managed about 580 km/h (360 mph) and Hermann Gφring, head of the Luftwaffe was ecstatic. It was an aircraft that could finally fulfill the promise of the Schnellbomber, a high-speed bomber. The streamlined fuselage was modeled after its contemporary, the Dornier Do 17, but with fewer defensive guns because the belief still held that it could outrun late 1930s-era fighters. The fifth prototype set a 1,000 km (620 mi) closed-circuit record in March 1939, carrying a 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) payload at a speed of 517 km/h (320 mph).

The first five prototypes had conventionally operating dual-strut leg rearwards-retracting main gear, but starting with the V6 prototype, a main gear design debuted that twisted the new, single-leg main gear strut through 90° during the retraction sequence, much like that of the American Curtiss P-40 Warhawk fighter. This feature allowed the main wheels to end up above the lower end of the strut when fully retracted and was adopted as standard for all future production Ju 88s, and only minimally modified for the later Ju 188 and 388 developments of it. These single-leg landing gear struts also made use of stacks of conical Belleville washers inside them, as their main form of suspension for takeoffs and landings.

By 1938, radical modifications from the first prototype began to produce a "heavy" dive bomber. The wings were strengthened, dive brakes were added, the fuselage was extended and the number of crewmen was increased to four. Due to these advances, the Ju 88 was to enter the war as a medium bomber.

Hydro Junkie

Nope, not the JU-88 but, then again, maybe this will help:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
4) The redesign increased the plane's payload and crew without hurting performance
5) This aircraft had multiple configurations leading to several different ways it could be and was used. One way was, shall we say, highly innovative
6) This aircraft had twin engines(you got that part right Ernie)
7) This aircraft normally carried a crew of 5 though, at times, it did operate with more people on board
8) A famous officer used one of these planes as his personal transport aircraft(just a little trivia thrown in for good measure)
Good Luck

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Well, having missed that one, and with my obsession showing, how about The White Whale? The C-123? Converting a glider into a transport aircraft must count as being pretty innovative. Thanks; Ernie P.


The Fairchild C-123 Provider is an American military transport aircraft designed by Chase Aircraft and subsequently built by Fairchild Aircraft for the United States Air Force. In addition to its USAF service, which included later service with the Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard, it also went on to serve most notably with the United States Coast Guard and various air forces in South East Asia. During the Vietnam War, the aircraft was used to spray Agent Orange. Design and development

The XC-123 prototype.The C-123 Provider was designed originally as an assault glider aircraft for the United States Air Force (USAF) by Chase Aircraft as the XCG-20 (Chase designation MS-8 Avitruc) Two powered variants of the XCG-20 were developed during the early 1950s, as the XC-123 and XC-123A. The only difference between the two was the type of engines used. The XC-123 used two Pratt & Whitney R-2800-23 air-cooled radial piston engines, while the XC-123A was fitted with four General Electric J47-GE-11 turbojets, in two pods. The XC-123A also has the distinction, while only experimental, of being the USAF first jet-powered military transport. While the piston-powered XC-123 was initially well regarded for tactical transport for its ruggedness and reliability and ability to operate from short and unimproved airstrips, the turbojet-powered XC-123A – designed for high-speed transport between USAF bases for critical parts and personnel – was found unable to operate from short and rough airstrips. There was also no practical speed advantage due to the wing and fuselage design, and a drastic reduction in range. Only the one turbojet-powered test and evaluation version was built.

A number of C-123s were configured as VIP transports, including General William Westmoreland's White Whale. The C-123 also gained notoriety for its use in "Operation Ranch Hand" defoliation operations in Vietnam. Oddly enough, the USAF had officially chosen not to procure the VC-123C VIP transport, opting instead for the Convair VC-131D.

Hydro Junkie

Not the C-123. Looks like it's time for another clue:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
4) The redesign increased the plane's payload and crew without hurting performance
5) This aircraft had multiple configurations leading to several different ways it could be and was used. One way was, shall we say, highly innovative
6) This aircraft had twin engines(you got that part right Ernie)
7) This aircraft normally carried a crew of 5 though, at times, it did operate with more people on board
8) A famous officer used one of these planes as his personal transport aircraft(just a little trivia thrown in for good measure)
9) One version of this plane, optimized for ground attack, had the pilot controlled forward weapons significantly increased over the other versions
10) All the other configurations had a longer fuselage than the one from clue #9
11) Another version, applicable to clue #10, was equipped with a weapon of the same size as a well known armored vehicle
Good Luck

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Okay; if this doesn't do it, it will be three strikes and I'm out. Thanks; Ernie P.




Answer: The Fairchild C-119 Flying Boxcar


The Fairchild C-119 Flying Boxcar (Navy and Marine Corps designation R4Q) was an American military transport aircraft developed from the World War II-era FairchildC-82 Packet, designed to carry cargo, personnel, litterpatients, and mechanized equipment, and to drop cargo and troops by parachute. The first C-119 made its initial flight in November 1947, and by the time production ceased in 1955, more than 1,100 C-119s had been built. Its cargo-hauling ability and unusual twin-boom design earned it the nickname "Flying Boxcar".

Development

The Air Force C-119 and Navy R4Q was initially a redesign of the earlier C-82 Packet, built between 1945 and 1948. The Packet provided service to the Air Force's Tactical Air Command and Military Air Transport Service for nearly nine years during which time its design was found to have several serious problems. All of these were addressed in the C-119.In contrast to the C-82, the cockpit was moved forward to fit flush with the nose rather than its previous location over the cargo compartment. This resulted in more usable cargo space and larger loads than the C-82 could accommodate.

The C-119 also featured more powerful engines, and a wider and stronger airframe. The first C-119 prototype (called the XC-82B) first flew in November 1947, with deliveries of C-119Bs from Fairchild's Hagerstown, Maryland factory beginning in December 1949. In 1951, Henry J. Kaiser was awarded a contract to assemble additional C-119s at the Kaiser-Frazer automotive factory located in the former B-24 plant at Willow Run Airport in Belleville, Michigan. Initially, the Kaiser-built C-119F differed from the Fairchild aircraft by the use of Wright R-3350-85 Duplex Cyclone engines in place of Fairchild's use of the Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Majorradial engine. Kaiser built 71 C-119s at Willow Run in 1952 and 1953 (AF Ser. No. 51-8098 to 51-8168) before converting the factory for a planned production of the ChaseC-123 that never eventuated.

The Kaiser sub-contract was frowned upon by Fairchild, and efforts were made through political channels to stop Kaiser's production, which may have proven successful. Following Kaiser's termination of C-119 production the contract for the C-123 was instead awarded to Fairchild. Most Kaiser-built aircraft were issued to the U.S. Marine Corps as R4Qs, with several later turned over to the South Vietnameseair force in the 1970s.

The AC-119G "Shadow" gunship variant was fitted with four six-barrel 7.62Χ51mm NATOminiguns, armor plating, flare launchers, and night-capableinfrared equipment. Like the AC-130 that succeeded it, the AC-119 proved to be a potent weapon. The AC-119 was made more deadly by the introduction of the AC-119K "Stinger" version, which featured the addition of two General Electric M61 Vulcan20 mmcannon, improved avionics, and two underwing-mounted General Electric J85-GE-17 turbojet engines, adding nearly 6,000 lbf (27 kN) of thrust.Other major variants included the EC-119J, used for satellite tracking, and the YC-119H Skyvan prototype, with larger wings and tail.In civilian use, many C-119s feature the "Jet-Pack" modification, which incorporates a 3,400 lbf (15,000 N) Westinghouse J34 turbojet engine in a nacelle above the fuselage.

The Fairchild AC-119G Shadow and AC-119K Stinger were twin-engine piston-powered gunships developed by the United States during the Vietnam War. They replaced the Douglas AC-47 Spooky and operated alongside the early versions of the AC-130 Spectre gunship.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Lockheed AC-130?

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Pretty sure the AC-130 doesn't line up with clue 6, Buddy. You know the amazing part about my two missed guesses? Both of my misses were right in line with all the clues provided up until that point. It always surprises me how many "wrong" guesses still match all the clues. Thanks; Ernie P.

6) This aircraft had twin engines

Hydro Junkie

And neither one of you got it. Time for another clue:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
4) The redesign increased the plane's payload and crew without hurting performance
5) This aircraft had multiple configurations leading to several different ways it could be and was used. One way was, shall we say, highly innovative
6) This aircraft had twin engines(you got that part right Ernie)
7) This aircraft normally carried a crew of 5 though, at times, it did operate with more people on board
8) A famous officer used one of these planes as his personal transport aircraft(just a little trivia thrown in for good measure)
9) One version of this plane, optimized for ground attack, had the pilot controlled forward weapons significantly increased over the other versions
10) All the other configurations had a longer fuselage than the one from clue #9
11) Another version, applicable to clue #10, was equipped with a weapon of the same size as a well known armored vehicle
12) This plane used two radial engines with three bladed electric props
Good Luck

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Oh..... You mean like really, really, really famous. And maybe more than one famous General?? Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

Are you trying to get me to name names? Maybe later and, just for good measure, I'll add a link to a picture of the still existing aircraft. In the meantime, it's clue time again:
I'm looking for an aircraft:
1) This aircraft was based on an earlier unaccepted design that had a crew of three
2) In it's first configuration, it was also deemed "unacceptable" by it's country's military
3) After two substantial design changes, it was accepted by the military
4) The redesign increased the plane's payload and crew without hurting performance
5) This aircraft had multiple configurations leading to several different ways it could be and was used. One way was, shall we say, highly innovative
6) This aircraft had twin engines(you got that part right Ernie)
7) This aircraft normally carried a crew of 5 though, at times, it did operate with more people on board
8) A famous officer used one of these planes as his personal transport aircraft(just a little trivia thrown in for good measure)
9) One version of this plane, optimized for ground attack, had the pilot controlled forward weapons significantly increased over the other versions
10) All the other configurations had a longer fuselage than the one from clue #9
11) Another version, applicable to clue #10, was equipped with a weapon of the same size as a well known armored vehicle
12) This plane used two radial engines with three bladed electric props
13) This plane could, depending on the configuration and mission requirements, carry a torpedo or over a ton of internal and/or a ton of external ordinance.
14) This plane was operated by more than one service in it's parent country and by over a dozen countries world wide
15) This plane was produced, in several variants, in numbers exceeding 9,000 examples
Good Luck