ORIGINAL: SAVAGEJIM

I am curious for the MWC rules and how they would work for RC. Aside form the rules already in play, do these rules have historical specs and performance data as thier reasoning?

Also, as for armament and defenses, both of these warships have the same defenses (about 4in of armor at the belt). Another thing to consider is steel quality. During the time that Japan was industrializing and even well after WW1, Japan had no natural resources, no steel. They imported all their steel and didnt have enough all the time. So, to make more steel, they cut their steel with other less than perfect addetives, like copper (when tungsten, nickle, molybdenum, etc. is required with as mush sulfur elimitation as possible). So, Japanese armor plating is most likely not as good as German steel (the Germans were perfectionists as far as materials and everything productio-wise). That same 4in german plate might have had better mechanical performance (better protection) than the Japanese 4in plate. Additionally, I do not know if Japan specially treated their steels like the Americans did (annealing for tempering and making one side of the plate harder and the other side of the plate softer for superior mechnical performance).

The maneuvering performances are a bit differnt though. The Mogami if I remember, easily busted 30knots (I cannot remember the design spec speed or its sea trial speed). The Graf Spee was maybe 27 knots? So, turning radius aside, the speed of the Mogami will allow it to dictate its firing position.

As for armament, the Graf Spee has a serios advantage. Being on the verge of being a very light battlecruiser, it mounted 11in guns where the Mogami had 8in guns when refitted (though it mounted more barrels, even in the 2x turrets.

If I remember correctly, the German 11in guns had a much better performance than the Japanese 8in guns. The ballistics of the 11in allowed them to shoot much further, and if they score a hit, they went through the 10cm armor much more easily than what the 8in proectiles would. So, the damage of the Graf Spee would have been absolutely devastating to the Mogami (or other heavy cruiser as a matter of fact). Due to the longer range of the 11in guns, the Graf Spee can engage other cruisers well before that can engage it back. The other cuisers, a Mogami for example, would be more nimble as far as speed goes, but they have to charge in some ways under fire before they too can engage the Graff Spee back.

I am curoius if MWC ruls takes all this into account.

ORIGINAL: paladin

sarge, where are you getting the hull?

Joe

ORIGINAL: SAVAGEJIM

I am curious for the MWC rules and how they would work for RC. Aside form the rules already in play, do these rules have historical specs and performance data as thier reasoning?

...

I am curoius if MWC ruls takes all this into account.

ORIGINAL: Sarges_heroes2003


in short, NO. It does not. ... I suggest U actually go read the rules and info on the mwc site before going further. It would have saved u all that typing.

ORIGINAL: johnmCA72


MWC (& IRCWCC) allow only 1 caliber of gun & 1 thickness of "armor". Big Gun & Queen's Own generally allow a variety of each, but with limitations. Nobody accounts for the variety of armament & armor to the depth you describe.

The big issues are administration, reference, & testing for compliance. Everything that's required has to have a corresponding test & some sort of credible (or at least agreed-upon) reference to test against. As a practical matter, you can't go into so much detail that the process gets bogged down & there wouldn't be time for anything but testing ("judging"?). The object, after all, is to get ships (& people) into combat, so there's a real need to keep the certification process streamlined & moving.

JM

ORIGINAL: Sarges_heroes2003

check out Navy Field. better than board games and is free to play.

P.S.the rules are at MWCI. org :shrug: thought every one knew that.

ORIGINAL: johnmCA72


Only those who are in MWC should be expected to know that. I realize that you (they) don't like to acknowledge it, but there are other formats around.

JM

ORIGINAL: Sarges_heroes2003


Ohh I know there are other formats around but they also put there rules up on there web site for all to read. I meant our rules were on the website and its really easy to find. I did not reallize at the time, but most people coming into this don't go right to the rules to figure out how this is gona be done. they just want some one to come allong and tell them about it while they tell of there exploding torpedoes that blow up 2k grand ships into tooth pick sized shrapnel. Those usually didn't think it out, and think it would have been cool.

ORIGINAL: SAVAGEJIM

If you read my post, my questions were to SEEK the rules. Yes I did give much more info than there are rules for, but it should have been very clear that I am not here to see the $2000 models to be destroyed into toothpicks.

I am sorry, but your pessimisim and the way it appeared to come off at me is not conducive to promoting your hobby that I am very interested in learning about.

Again, I am not one of these guys who is here to see firecrackers and small cannons blowing up expensive models. If you would have given the website address or link in your first reply to me and at least had a neutral tone in that reply, I would not have felt as uncomfortable as I do now.

You could have simply said "You can find our rules at www.MWCI.org " and that would have been exactly what I am looking for.

Sorry for drifting off topic, it's just that I am very fascinated by the history of the Deutchland cruisers (the Graf Spee in particular) and I have played several table top simulations of the final battle of the Graf Spee off of Uruguay. Hearing about the possibility of recreating battles using floating models really fascinates me.

ORIGINAL: SAVAGEJIM

...

Sorry for drifting off topic, it's just that I am very fascinated by the history of the Deutchland cruisers (the Graf Spee in particular) and I have played several table top simulations of the final battle of the Graf Spee off of Uruguay. Hearing about the possibility of recreating battles using floating models really fascinates me.

ORIGINAL: Sarges_heroes2003

...

ORIGINAL: Sarges_heroes2003

At the top of this forum is some thing called a stickie. stickified is a list of all known combat clubs and MWCI is the first on the list. U skipped right past it. That is why I am coming across as an ass to you but people that don't go look for the rules in the first place are not the kind of people we want in the clubs. People like you don't use FAQ's or Stickies or read forum rules before asking your questions. You seem to think that we should run to your post and answere as long as this holds your attention. We put stickies in forums for a reason, do not skip them.
U see the answeres to your questions were put out there for you to read to your harts content but no u came here and demanded we all come to u. U may not realize it but the club is watching new members, and we are grading u. U have failed the first part of the test. U see we don't need to keep new members coming in, we can do just fine with out you. We are more concerned with the type of people we have coming in than just numbers. We want buddies for battlers not dicks & ass hats.
U will not do well in this hobby if you are not a Indipendant type who can do quality work on there own, but has no problem conforming to the rules. DOing things by the book. that sort of thing. so since you come accross to me as some kind of Kid teen that probably thinks the world revolves around you I say, "**** OFF!!" we don't want you. try back in about 10 years maybe 20 for you.