3dmike,
If you ever thought the Freestyle was going to be a FunFly/Profile type bird then you obviously did not buy the plane you wanted. I don't know why anyone would ever think the Freestyle would be good at funfly/profile type stuff. Just look at the airfoil. Do you think it would ever be good at high alpha? It is obviously built for more precision than all out funfly/profile. It is in this role that it shines and i highly reccomend it to anyone who wants a precision/3d, Artistic Aero craft.

I notice this is the problem a lot of people are having with the Funtana. They think that somehow its going to fly like a funfly/profile. This is not its role and it does not do this well.

Don't try to make a plane do what it was not designed for and then critisize it when it does not. This is no different than buying a flat bottomed trainer and trying to make it into a pattern ship.

To anyone who wants a profile/funfly type bird the Seduction Freestyle is not for you. Get a Flip or something instead.

Neil,

Keep up the good work, I want to see how it goes. Once I get my Capiche finished, hopefully in a few weeks, we will have to compare them. (just so every one knows, we both fly at the same club)

See you soon

Shadow

are you saying the freestyle doesnt like high alpha ?

if so that would make some 3d moves more tricky including the harrier...

does the wing rock also ? im surprised...

neil / sprink..... do be sure to get a selection of comparative pics and specs for our interest id love to know

Hey shadowspring. I disagree totally with what your saying. The seduction freestyle was designed for freestyle hence its name. To be precise it was aimed at the new precision 3d mixed with f3a class of artistic aerobatics. Trust me in it is designed to 3d and it fails to do in its stock form what its supposed to do. Thats why they released the ono special. Dont ask me why they didnt make the mods as standard. If you think a funfly profile is the only plane that 3d's well then youve got to fly some more planes. Ive flown giant planes that 3d like profiles.... In this case I wasn't expecting a profile but what I was expecting was an entry level artistic aerobatics plane that flew the pattern which then you could do advanced 3d with. You have to remember that 90% of 3d is not the hover where the profile funflys excell at, the plane has to be stable in the high alpha, which is the elevator or harrier in 3d terms. From my experience it is a unstable pig and really I was expecting more which I should have from the advertisments of one doing a harrier a foot off the ground. For the rolling 3d menouvers such as the high alpha rolling circle the roll authority is poor with the strip ailerons. You have to ask why did they include a full flying tail surface with at least 60% of it moving if it wasnt aimed at doing 3d.

With the funtana the thing should fly lke a funfly. If you have flown or see fly the 2m funtana you would understand that it flies like a profile with a full fuse. I see the problem is not the pilots expecting a 3d plane but the designer rushing out a model without the propper testing of airfoils, moments ect...

Gee, I feel really good about my seduction.. and I haven't even flown it yet!

Neil.

3dmike
Actualy i think you just proved my point. You wanted a plane that was good at high alpha and you were dissapointed that it was not good at high alpha, thus you think it is not a very good craft. I completely understand your dissapointment, you got something that did not fulfill your expectations. Expectations are the cause for more mental anguish than any other factor.

I on the other hand read the reviews and never expected it to be be good at high alpha manuevers, therefore i love it. I think it is the best pattern plane i have ever flown that is still stable enough to do some 3d.

The Seduction is really more of a pattern bird than a 3d bird. BTW that combo makes one hell of a capable Artistic Aerobatic plane. That is te reasin the AA website lists it as "probably the best in its class." That is exactly what i wanted with the Freestyle and that is exactly what i got.

The reason the Freestyle has small strip ailerons is exactly because it was never designed to be a slow flying high alpha model. Most of the AA planes that i am aware of follow the template of small strip ailerons.

Also the reason Pilot realesed the Seduction Wildstyle was to fill the gap in the product line for a high alpha capable plane.


Neil
Don't worry the Seduction is a beautiful flying ship, best i have ever flown. I did not find it to be as unstable as 3dmike reported. I even was able to do one of my first inverted harriers with it. There is a whole lot of very satisfied Seduction owners. When you and Sprink compare the two models you will find that it is much better at pattern while the Capiche is going to be better at 3d. I hope you did not expect it to be a 3d monster though.

mmmm shadow you are wilting.... there was a time you came out and said without doubt the seduction was way better than another plane we both know...

Recent posts reflect the first negative comments ive seen about the plane and in each case these are strengths of that other model.....without the loss of smooth pattern performance...

interesting eh....

I cant wait to see the result of the comparison...

of course we already have one from Ali (reliable as you know) so it will be interesting to see what occurs here..

of course no one will win cos it is so subjective to taste and capability...

(you read the you know what thread recently shadow.... another pilot flew and got happy.... mmm!)

HAPPY DAYS TO YOU ALL

Knowing Neil's flying style (ie flat out!) I think he will love the freestyle for the reasons Shadow says.

I will (hopefully) love my Capiche, I tend to prefer to fly slower.

I suspect that Neil will prefer his Freestyle to my Capiche, and I will prefer my Capiche to the Freestyle. I say this as both are kits, and you always end up with an attachment to planes you have built from a kit/plan. Also we will set up both to our own preferences (though having said that we both like using lots of expo etc)

On the other hand, neither of us are "3D monsters", I would say we are both good sport pilots. I'm looking to improve my 3D and general flying skills, hence the Capiche, and I think that Neil is the same.

Before eveyone starts flinging too much mud, I suspect that for both of us the planes will be far better than anything else we have flown before.

I will start a new thread when we do the comparisons.

ill look forward to seeing the comparisons you make between the two.
time to settle the argument!!!!!

I very much doubt it will settle any arguments. But that is the fun of RCU.[8D]

Still planning on getting the Wildstyle at some point. Plenty of other planes and things to sort out before then.

i'm still getting a kick outta the fact he had a plastic linked control surface on a plane of that size and cost..[:-]
hehehe learnt that one years ago. BOOM

Once again Sprink you have proven yourself to be a wise man!!!

Archie
You have to remember that i made those comments when you were breaking every rule on rcu, spamming, advertising, etc....I was fed up with it. You still need to do the correct thing and pay for the advertising like everyone else. I really have no idea which model is better nor if i would rather have the Capiche. If the Capiche is superior then i would love to have one, as i really enjoy my freestyle. I actually hope it is better, that way i'll be able to upgrade when i have to retire the freestyle. If you havn't noticed i am keepin tabs on the reviews by Sprink.

Philly
I certainly learned my lesson.
I only used that crap because i didn't have the 2mm metal clevis that would fit the carbon rods. I don't care if i have to fly to Guatamala to pick up the correct clevis i ain't using those plane busters again!!!!!

It was my most violent crash to date. It almost buried itself in the damn field.[]

I reall ywould be interested in plans of it. I have build from the same type lans a komacro so I don't think that I will have problems with this one

My engine mount has snapped while running the engine in. Can someone tell me where I might be able to get a replacement, I don't fancy drilling any more holes in the bulk head.

A new engine mount and a couple of evenings work and I can try this model out. Any help would be much appreciated.

Nealy there...

Problem sorted.

Its exactly the same as a Radio active 46-61 long mount.

Well done Neil, hope to see it soon. Certainly looking good. Are you going to paint the cowl or leave it clear?

Thanks

I will run it without the cowl for the fist few flights so I can see if I'm happy with the performance (I'm using an ASP 61 four stroke).

If alls well I will cut and paint the cowl, probably white and chrome to match the fuz.

Should be ready to fly next weekend. Hows your Capiche going sprink?

Nearly done the basic building work, hope to start covering it over the weekend or on Monday.

Looks like the ASP is a fine motor to snap the mount!!!
The Seduction mount is really thick, i think overkill.

Glad you made it without an injury.

ive just read the disscusion on this aircraft and some mixed opinions,i remember starting a thread on the seduction when i first built mine,i must agree though the high alpha stuff is slightly unstable,but with up ailerons mixed in for parachute wings dont rock,but high alpha knifeedge is out of the question,also trying to stop it tourque rolling in the hover due to small ailerons,but apart from that blenders,flat upright spins are cool and rolling harriers with flicks thrown in.anyway theres my veiw after around 60 flights.
mike

If you have had it for 60 flights you must be enjoying it.

Flight Report:


Excellent..

Had 7 flights today on my Seduction Freestyle and loved every minute of it. I'm using Futaba 148 servos and yet its smooth response is that of a plane with all the latest sevos and linkages.

I set the C of G to 200mm from the trailing edge of the wing, which is 10mm further forward than recommended on the plans. This was due to the use of an ASP 61 Four stroke which didn't have the ability to draw the fuel from the centre of the Fuz.

The engine went well, but a little bit more power won't go a miss. It will prop-hang, but without much reserve.

This plane is superb. Only the stickers to put on now.

Come on Sprink, get your Capche finished so we can compare them.

Neil

Neil you can feel confident on moving the cg back with confidence. I have mine at about 170mm and it shows no sign of being a tail heavy bird.

You need to try a wing tip spin using opposite aileron and rudder and full down. Reflex mix also helps. Does the most beautiful wing tip spin I havel ever seen.

I have retired my Magic Extra today because after about 30 flight on my seduction I was shocked at how terrible the Magic Extra was in comparison. Gonna go the profile route as a true throw around.

I will try the new C of G positions tomorrow.

What is a reflex mix?

Neil