I believe that is when you mix the ailerons to move in unison with the elevater. At least I think that it is called reflex mix.

Also if you are looking to do elevaters you need to do them inverted. when done upright the wings rock a little. That is fine with me though as they look better inverted anyway. Especially when I exit a blender.

flew my new capiche today and i can honestly say there is no comparison the c50 walks all over the seduction,i flown my seduction for around 70 flights now and the transition betwen manouvers aposed to the capiche is not good i can tourque roll the c50 then climb up slighty then wak full up ele and she will just float back down with ease,try that with seduction and its all over the place.but its stil good for other things just noy high alpha stuff.
cheers mike

Tried the relex mix today and it felt less stable. This could be because the C of G is still forward.
Loving every minute of this plane

Interesting comments Surrey... I was gonna ask for your comments on comparison... there seem to be very few pilots that weve found here that have flown both and the subject of comparison was brought up by Shadow ages ago.... so far weve only found two people I think that have flown both and they both preferred the C50. Those who have flown the Seduction and not the C50 cant believe the C50 is better... so it will be interesting to see what Neil / Sprink have to say, and now it comes out that you have had one too...
It saves me spending the time putting one together... Ill get another C50 together instead. Anyway Im going off topic here and would ask you Surrey to put your C50 flight feedback on the C50 thread when you are ready.

Neil... looking good....lets see some low level stuff ! And Sprink, we need you to get your C50 ready so you can swap and compare !

Neil keeps badgering me about getting my C50 finished as well. You lot are worse than my girlfriend. LOL

If the C50 is supposed to be better than the Freestyle, I'll cant wait, as the Feestyle doesn't seem to be lacking anything much. Neil was certainly enjoying himself yesterday. He was doing some lovely prop hanging, which given the strong wind we had (about 10 to 15 mph) was impressive. In fact the wind didn't seem to bother it that much at all.

Neil has definately been seduced (get it?) by the Freestyle. He got his Acro Wot out and had a flight, and as soon as he landed it got put to one side and the Freestyle got ready again.

Is C50 the new way of saying Capiche without actually saying capiche?

you gotta keep up with this hip cool street language Simon

Incidentally, I definately want a Wildstyle now.

I believe the fatter wing section on the Seduction will make it better at prop hanging, but perhaps at the expense of other manouvres.... we'll see...

Anyone know exactly what the Seduction wing section is? (NACA 064A 14?)

There are definetly some tradeoffs in terms of the high alpha performance of the Freestyle. Inverted it does high alpha fairly well but upright is not very good at all. Flat spins and tumbles like a beast. It will flat spin in stick positions that seem counterintuitive. I can even get in to an inverted climbing spin with very little effort. It is unbelievably stable in a hover. I hardly ever have to use rudder.

The lack of high alpha performance is not a set back to me at all, as that is not my forte at this time. I just bought a profile as a high alpha trainer so i'll be there in not too long at all. Hopefully by then Archie can get a US distributor set up, so i can give the Capiche a try. Its out of my price range at this time as it will cost about $250 to get one delivered. I can get the Seductions delivered to the US for $150 as a comparison. If archie can't get them distributed then i might have to go with the Wildstyle which will probably be superior in high alpha to the C50 but nowhere near the precision.

Surrey3styla,
Thanks for the info. It was largely due to your reccomendation that i got the Freestyle in the first place so now that you like the C50 as well i hope i can find a way to get one. Very encouraging news. More Capable toys!!!!!

Now here’s for my pennies worth.

I much prefer the Seduction FS to the C50. I have been flying mine now (seduction) for over a year and love it. I find the knife edge at all speed great. It will high alpha in KE no problem. I can get the speed right down. I got a little pitching to the canopy which I mixed out. The up right Harrier was a little rocky but stable, it is only 50� span!

A flying buddy has build the C50 and made me fly it to test it. I don’t know if it is his build, he usually builds well, but it was terrible. The transition on the square loop snapped out. The KE was not good, just didn’t feel right, non of the locked in feel of the seduction, more like my kyosho Cap with a longer turning moment and all the drag of the airframe. After and out side loop the front of the wing mount pulled out so I was left with a very unstable plane which I only just got back. I hope that it was his build, it sure didn’t inspire me to build one.

I am sure it is good plane though

Cheers

Kris

Kris1,
Where did you get the CF landing gear and how did you install them?

Did you cut them in half and then use 4 screws?

I alway thought that the use of a non swept back gear would not look right, but seeing yours makes me want to try the benifits of lighter stronger gear.

Crikey Kris... that doesnt sound anything like the C50 I know !

Kris. I'm real interested in the difference between the wing sections on these Seductions and Capiche 50's.

Can you work out the % sections from the plan? measure the thickest part of the root section, divide by the cord at root and x100. Then do the same for the tip.

I have a set of Capiche plans......(just curious Arch!)

if the front mount broke sounds like he didn't fill it in with balsa as required in the instructions.
as for the twisting out, sounds like a weak elevator joiner like i had, but mine was still perfect in KE, just 3% mix on ailerons, but it changes in different wind conditions anyway.
thinks to check.. did he line up the engine mount with the little hole in the firewall, did he get the firewall the right way round to start with? ( puts the hole on the right side )
Sounds like he got something really wrong.

Careful fellas, this is a Seduction thread. We don't want to be seduced into making it a C*****e thread.

Perhaps this needs to be discussed in the Capiche 50 thread, which has been a bit quite recently.

Could a few more people back me up on how wonderful and impressed they are with the Seduction with comments on how to improve it, rather than comparing it with the "kind of like a" Cap plane.

Its great to hear positive and negative things about different planes, but surely there is another style of plane out there worth building.

Pilot kits are extremely straight forward to build and there must be dozens of planes with the same building techniques (CAD etc) that can be likened to both of these planes.

Neil

Neil. In my opinion the Seduction is certainly one of the prettiest planes in its size and class if asthetics floats your boat.

Simon.

If I wasn't worried about asthetics then a profile is better still.

Simon,
The way in which the Seduction looks and the lines it carves out is my favorite thing about the plane. Sometimes aerobatics is less about how much you can do versus how you can make it look. Many occasions i mess up with the Seduction but to everyone around they think i tried to do that. It just looks good.

Mixed in with all these very smooth beautiful lines is an extremely aggressive model. Very snappy when you want it to be with incredible roll rate. After about 30 flights i am just now catching up with the speed at whic it rolls. This from someone that has flown many pattern planes and 3d planes at very high rates.

Glad to see that everyone posting here has nothing but positive intensions. I think everyone has lightened up a little!! Good to see.

Hey Neil, I'm impressed with your Seduction. I would get one if I didnt have the Capiche on the building board. I think it looks good. I really like the swept back undercarriage.

It seems to me that whatever we say about Freestyle v C50, both beat pretty much all other sport planes with out even trying. Watching Neil's reaction when he flew his Acrowot on Sunday (the mainstay of UK sport planes for the last 20 years or so) was a good example. I was clear it just did not compete.

I was at Ali's on Saturday. He had Seduction kits in stock.

Sprink. Freestyle seems to be the latest flying fad. I reckon early next year you'll be seeing more of this type of plane available - probably some good artf's as well.

Don't believe quality kit suppliers saying that you can't get the weight down in artf....its bull. The far eastern and cheq manufacturers will build in contest grade balsa if you want....it just increases the unit price accordingly. But would you be willing to pay £20 more to loose half a pound in weight on an arf? i know I would.

Damn right.

I would pay more than that gladly for half a pound!!!


I think one thing is clear from all this debate as well. We have two awesome toys to play with. Who in the world could ever be unhappy about that. Oops maybe someone who sells them. Arc***!

what about the Top Models Kabriolin ( Freestyle lookalike ) or the Predator from the same company whicl looks more Capicheish ( umm would that make it a Capicheiche )
a friend wants a Kabriolin even tho he's just brought a SH Freestyle, also has a Wildcard 3D and a Seduction Wildstyle on the way, any flight reports on the Kabriolin?