I have never seen a "3D" plane (50cc gasser or larger) get out of control and enter the pilot/pit area. (I prolly fly more than 75% of the people reading this post)

I have seen multiple other types do it too frequently.....

What ever the reason, what I have seen, (I am fairly well connected with the 3D crowd in SoCal), 3D pilots rarely crash, and when they do, it is
away from people and at a very slow speed.

Invariably, the joker who just stuffed his Saito 100 powered 18 pound P40 into a table in the pit area was complaining about how unsafe the 3D guys are 15 minutes before his Takeoff-stall-spin-crash

3D guys can be (well prolly are) just as arrogant and rude as the next sort of pilot... (Though Jet guys are prolly at the pinnacle of arrogance!! lol)...
but they (we?) oughta be hated 'cuz we are rude (if/when we are rude) rather than because we like to fly big (Scale) gas planes that plow thru the sky at peculiar AOA's

most probably because of a 3d pilot being inconsiderate and hogging up the runway.... thats why when i 3d i make sure im the only one up, or im flying with another 3d guy,,,,,,,but never when some non 3d plane is flying... im considerate and know when and when not to

I think that's the majority of it right there! Unfortunately, that seems to be common everywhere anymore...driving, waiting in line at the store, etc. No consideration for others; it's all about ME!

Dang cowboy and MJ, me thinks you hit the proverbial nail on the head. Respect for others is getting rare, not necessarily gone, but getting very rare. At least around my neck of the woods.

Our club has around 80 members with maybe 50% active. Any weekend during good flying weather it gets quite busy. If you are the only one in the air your welcome to fly 3D, hover at a safe distance from the pits or flight line or fly back and forth down the center of the runway. Unfortunately it took instituting a rule stating if there was more than one plane in the air circuits were mandatory and no reversing maneuvers. Too many accidents and close calls with guys attempting or flying 3D while others were flying. Unfortunately most of the incidents involved 3D style of flying where reversing maneuvers and abrupt pull ups to a hover or vertical path without any kind of warning cause a few bad mid airs. The general consensus from the many clubs I have flown at is that everyone else gets along together in the air except those attempting to fly 3D while others are flying. Accurate or not that is the perception. One of the biggest events here in Ontario has had to curtail 3D flying to a time slot as many of the rest of the pilots were stating they would not attend if the guys were allowed to fly 3D while the others were flying circuits. And for those of you who think scale flying is easy try researching and building a good scale model then fly the maneuvers in a proto type manner with judging and see where you come out.

In my opinion there is too much elitism and if everyone respected each other regardless of the discipline, time, money or type of model flown the sky’s would be much friendlier.


Dennis

I do not believe “Respect for others is getting rare, not necessarily gone, but getting very rare. At least around my neck of the woods.� , the reason (at least around me) is no one takes the first step…..talking. I fly just about everything I can, 3d, sports flying, pattern/imac, combat, experimental aircraft, I help train new pilots, ect. The first thing I did when I went to my field is just started talking with everyone, introduce yourself, make friends, always help out, admit your mistakes, and just be fun to fly with. Communication is the key, so many people show up to my field, never say a word to anyone else, fly, packup and go home, those tend to be the guys that get frustrated. Everyone I talk too, even if they don’t agree with me, know that I will offer them respect if they do the same. When I am flying 3d I let other pilots know that if they want to make a few passes over the runway to just call it out, I will get out of the way. That being said if everyone is flying the pattern I choose to fly another…non 3d… plane until things calm down.
All it takes is talking, helping people out, and some respect. Follow those and most people will not give you crap unless your deserve it.

It seems the general consensus here is that "3D" involves hovering. There are a significant lot more maneuvers that just that. Tumbles, Waterfalls, Blenders, Parachutes, Walls, Falling Leaf, harriers, Rolling maneuvers and many others are generally all considered 3D.

Would the club that mandates "circuits" accept a rolling circuit? Would they also accept (or not accept) IMAC routines?

The thing is that the pilot who spends most of his flight hovering his plane is generally annoying to most, especially as many of those tend to feel a need to constantly blip the throttle (usually because their choice of engine suffers from a poor mid range power curve).

As has been mentioned by so many, it is al about respect. True "3D" routines are no more and no less problematic to other flyers than any other aerobatic routine. In fact a flyer down low is less of a problem to other flyers as long as he stays down low and dosn't come near to other pilots. It is when he pulls up that the problems occur, same as a pilot practicing an IMAC routine will do f time to time or a Warbird pilot will do after a successful low pass down the runway.

Now I am going out to practise my rolling loops and knife edge spins - 3 mistakes high and along the aerobatic line.
(Is there such a thing as a rolling spin? - maybe around the pitch axis )

Hmmmmm........ Not being able to perform a simple loop if more than one plane was in the air would really suck.

doing a loop while in the pattern is similar to doing a U-turn in a busy street..... it increases the odds of a collision [:'(]

imagine you pour your heart and soul and tons of hard earned money into a $5,000 40%er or a 15k+ turbine jet and you get shot down by a 300 dollar funfly plane [:@]


when i feel the need to do a cuban 8, a spin, or something crazy, i just fly out of the pattern or do it above it.... id hate to be the guy that no one enjoys flying with,the guy who is frowned upon, or the guy who caused a crash

I guess that would rule out Immelman's and the split S, too! that wouldn't be much fun for me; those were some of the first aerobatic maneuvers I learned as a kid flying R/C...

this is why some clubs are a joke and why memberships are down overall. If someone tells me i can't do a loop, split-s or Immelman, I'm going to laugh.

You guys are plain silly. When more than one plane is in the air maneuvers that end with one going in the same direction as the circuit are fine. Loops, rolls, low passes, and spins just about any maneuver is acceptable. What is not acceptable is doing any maneuver right in front and forcing others in the circuit to maneuver to avoid you.

Dennis

I saw this thread and couldn't resist the post.

I don't 'hate' 3D but I also either fly alone or with a friend so I don't have the issues some of you do with people hovering over the runway.

For me, the whole 3D thing just doesn't do it. I like airplanes when they're flying on the wing, not hanging on the prop. A flying airplane has a grace and elegance about it that the 3D thing doesn't have for me. It obviously takes considerable skill, but it's a skill I've never had any desire to learn. I've got a couple of Extras that are considered '3d' planes but I have the CG in a sane location with reasonable control throws and fly them in a manner that I call 'faux precision' (and I love the way they fly...my favorite plane of all time, the Extra). Things like big loops, slow rolls, point rolls, and flat spins are what do it for me. 3D just doesn't float my boat.

I was actually wondering whether 3D was starting to fade away a little bit. I haven't seen nearly as many new 3D machines being released as I did a few years ago.

I'm actually more intrigued by 3D heli flying but that's a skill set that I have neither the time, patience, or bank account to support.

I often thought racing motorcycles was safer than riding on the street. On the track we were all at least trying to go in the same direction.

jess

If I was stuck with some knee jerk, candy-ass club like that, it wouldn't be for too long.

Exactly the attitude that gets you and the discipline you fly so endeared to the club. Guys who display such immature attitude and disregard for the wants and needs of others in the club usually get their butt turfed and end up whining about it. Don't boo hoo when you get what you deserve. Most likely this is a troll anyways to try and start a ***** fest. Have a nice day and try not to get yer knickers so bunched up.

Dennis

I think the general problem is: some people need LOTS of rules to ensure their safety, well being, and happiness, and there are others who think all rules are there to be broken. I, for one, think a few rules for safety are OK, but I wouldn't be hangin' around a club much where all you could do was left circuits with an occasional roll. Sounds like a NASCAR event lol

actually, there's lots of new 3D models. Several airframes have been released over the past year from Extreme Flight, 3dhs, and PA with several more in the works.

I'm actually starting to enjoy this getting flamed stuff so here goes. Most (not all) of the complainers about 3D are those whose flying skills are severly lacking and they start this static to keep the attention from being focused on them. Premeptive whining so to speak. Most (not all) of the truly exceptional 3D flyers out there participate in other forms of competition including IMAC and/or pattern and most are highly competitive and win regularly at these competitions.

I have personally been in the air doing 3D with 3 others flying 3D with me all of this taking place in a space much smaller than a football field. I felt less threatened with losing my multi-thousand dollar aircraft than I do with some rookie that hasn't learned or doesn't care to learn to see more than just his/her aircraft in the air. Kinda goes hand in hand with the ME ME ME mentality common to the younger generation but in this case extends to all age groups. Instead of learning to share the field with flyers of all types, they choose to encourage rules to prohibit that which THEY (read ME ME ME) do NOT like. Hate 3D all you like but you really need to take a look in the mirror to see where the real problems lie.

I participate in many forms of flying and am willing to share my airspace with like minded folks who will give me airspace for whatever type of aviation I am doing that day as I extend the same courtesy to them.

Point taken, but to me those are all pretty much 3D specific companies. I was thinking more along the lines of your Horizon or Hobbico brands that tend to release more of the 'current trend'.

My favorite and most versatile plane that I have is a PA Extra MX, by the way. That thing is fantabulous!

I've had maybe 40 midairs, and 93% were while only flying a left hand pattern without loops or rolls with two or three other guys also flying the exact same pattern, so I don't think flying a simple left hand pattern is the key. Of course that was during pylon racing where stuff happens quickly.

But in normal sport flying, I depend on hearing where the other airplanes are in the air to avoid them. Helo's in front of me, hovering 3D, and electrics tend to void my system of situational awareness. People coming up and wanting to hold long detailed conversions also mess with maintaining a mental picture of the airspace. But normally it is quite easy to track three or four other airplanes while flying your own IF YOU CAN HEAR ALL OF THEM.

So you're saying "loud pipes save lives" ? j/k, don't wanna get all the Harley riders pissed at me. I know what you mean though; when I'm flying an electric, I have a much harder time handling my plane if I can't hear what it's doing. We had a hearing-impaired young man in our club last year; I was impressed with his ability to cope with multiple flyers in the air. Just what he was used to though...

how about using a caller/spotter?

WOW.. I am lucky.. I belong to a club that just has members who overall practice courtesy and we have warbirds, foamies,helis, 3D electrics, 3D gas planes... everything.. and everyone gets along...

of course.. we banned flying lawnmowers and seemed to fix most of the problems!!

lol

Lucky here too. My club also has a mixture of about everything. We even allow flying lawnmowers.

We pretty much have one rule. Don't fly over the pit area. It's been working just fine for the last 35 years.

+1 Right on Dave