I want to learn to how to do harriers and torque rolls. What is the best plane to get for this that I can put my BME 50 on?

DP Edge 540, Extra 330 or Ultimate. If you are builders - your way to Aeroworks Edge 29% kit or Colombo Anderson Extras.

The GP patty wagstaff would do the trick. The hanger9 cap would also work as well. Define your search a bit. Are you looking for an arf or a build.

With the BME 50 you should be looking at an all up weight no greater than 23 lbs. for serious 3D. I would also be looking for a plane with the size between 28-31%. If a 33% falls in this weight range then go for it but be careful sometimes the weights can be deceiving (example if it says from 22-25lbs I wouldnt go with it) YOu are looking for something around the 17lb mark for all out 3D.

I would advise against the DP models to learn 3D on. They do 3D good but their not the easiest. I would suggest some of the aeroworks models, some of the new extreme flight r/c models, the columbo anderson models, the Kangke Laser, a 30% Carden or something of that nature.

Really it doesnt matter which model you pick. The extra 330 is popular now and so is the Edge 540. Any of the high performance aerobatic line will do just fine. I would kinda stay away from the bipes for learning. They are temperamental to set up for a harrier without dropping a wing.

Gotta be a typo. A 23lb generally is in the 100cc engine class.

I know you probobly dont need the engine on it but check out this link, This is close to what you should be looking for and a pretty good deal if you ask me.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...304&forumid=11]

I think 23 lbs would be better with a 100cc class engine not a 50cc. 80" or more at 15 lbs should be a very good target for your engine. From that, I don't know of any ARFs that come up in this weight range. Maybe scratch building a stick built aircraft with light materials would be an all out way to go...

The reason I say 23 Max is b/c I have a giant stinger with a G-62 (about the same power as the BME) and it comes in around 22.5 lbs. I can 3D this plane very well for its draggy ability. Torque rolls, flat spins, K.E. spins, harriers rock like crazy but what do you expect it was designed before 3D was well known. 17lbs is a good target for a BME 50.

smallfly,
i already have the wagstaff extra, but I'm scared to try anything with it cause it looks too good to crash. How well does yours harrier? Is there alot of wing rocking? I definitely want an arf, I'm no kit builder

The Wagstaff Extra is a great flying IMAC platform, but it's not the best at 3-D work. You should check out the Kangke Texas Hurricane (looks just like an Edge 540) I have a Brison 3.2 in mine and the combo is killer, my son has one with a Brison 2.4 and even thats enough power to accelerate vertically. Harriers and elevators are stable, torque rolls and hovers are a natural, blenders go around so fast it almost stops coming down. Mine weighs about 15 pounds ready to go. Run a search on it, I think you'll find most owners agree with me.

I heard they were good planes, I may try one of those.

I just love it when people chime in the GP patty wagstaff wont do 3D well, ask wgeffon or Jwilliams, both have flown mine and 3d'd the holy he!! out of it, elevators, harriers, harrier rolls, torque rolls, evidently somebody forgot to tell my patty she cant 3d. On a perfectly calm day the wings will rock a little in harrier until you find the right throttle- nose high setting then it will lock in, you just have to keep it there. It helps to add spoileron to up elevator in harriers. with a little wind it is less work. If your still hesitant to try these tricks with patty, get yourself a profile sledge put a 50 size 2 stroke on it and parctice with that. It is a great 3d trainer. Keep your BME 50 on your patty and when your ready she will be ready.
Her's a pic of wayne flying my patty, he has just elevator'd it to the ground and is now harriering on the deck

My partnet and I both have one of these coming in November...

Wild Hare RC's 84" Edge... around 16 lbs with a BME 50...

http://www.wildharerc.com

I ordered one of those last week. Tom says hey will be in Nov. 1. You think it will be a good 3d plane?

smallfly,
what control throws do you use for 3d on your extra?

Without a doubt! I love my AW 33% Edge... This oughtta haul with a 50cc engine... heck... my Patty doesn't have as much wing area... (78" vs. 84")

And the control surfaces look plenty for 3D... I guess we'll see, but my money is on YES!

There is a guy in my club that can do almost every 3-D manuver you can think of with a clipped wing Taylor, that doesn't make it a good 3-D platform. I have flown several PW Extras, I own two different lasers, two Hurricanes and just sold my 35% Carden. I have flown them back to back along with several Ultimates, Pitts, and Wild Hare Giles. The Hurricane and the Carden were the best of the bunch.

claysmith: As much as you can get. I use the longest dubro arms on the servos and the innermost holes on the horns. And If your looking at other planes look at the extreme flight yak 54 due later this year. It is 87", is built to fly with a strong 50 cc gasser and will weigh around 16lbs. I saw it at toledo and know people that have flown it. Those that have flown it said it is the closest thing they have flown to a 40%'r in a small package.

Really don't understand why people think the DP Extra can't handle a 50. I'm on my third one with a DA50.

First one was the version 1 with FPE 2.4, bolly 20 x 10 at 15.75 lbs. great 3D plane but didn't like the vertical performance. Sold that complete to one of the guys I fly with.

Second one was version 1 with the BME 50 bolly 22 x 10 16.75 lbs. It did all the 3D maneuvers and had great vertical performance. Sold the engine and then the plane.

Third one is the version 3. Much lighter, by at least one lb. with DA50 mejzlik 23 x 8, 15 lbs.

I'm new to 3D and have a few buddies that fly 33% and have helped along the way. This is all in one year.

As stated by DPM "Extra 330L 3D"

Great trainer for 3D.

Tho I'll admit the planes DP makes are good flyers, I won't own another DP product.

Very lousy customer service and unwillingness to admit human error.

I believe he DOES build his planes more on the light and less on the sturdy side too, then denies that it REQUIRES the proper engine for 3D.

A person or company that's not willing to admit their mistakes and then make good on them simply isn't going to live off any of my money.

There are WAY too many great planes out there to have to deal with arrogance and disrespect from manufacturers....

YMMV

Mordib,

Great reason not to buy from DP. It is a great plane for 3D and stronger then you might think. I've seen my buddy drop the thing from 8' onto grass field and nothing happened to the plane.

I definitely agree with you on his faults. There are many other choices out there. I choose to live with the faults and fly his plane.

Thanks.

That wild hare Edge looks awesome, I'm in in the process of looking to buy an 80+ in 3D capable machine... my 13lb Cap232 72in is not cutting it. I was looking at the 80in Katana from giantscaleplanes.com but that edge might just be better...

Do you guys think it will pull out of a hover well enough running a DA50? THat would be my only concern at 16-17 lbs...

That DA-50 should put out around 30 lbs of thrust... 2:1 power ratio is a GOOD thing...

The plane ought to climb out of a hover with authority...

Check the Patty Wagstaff threads... they are running 16.5 lbs (mine does) and guys are real happy with the power...

Tom (at Wild Hare) quotes the Edge at 17 lbs even with a heavy G-62 in the nose... I'm pretty sure the DA weighs 1.5 lbs (actually 23 oz.) less... That's 15.5 lbs... I'd bet we'll see some 15 lb'ers....

Being a gas newbie I wasn't sure... those are some impressive numbers even with the DA50... I was thinking about a ZDZ 60... 6 lbs more thrust and a similar price tag make it a tempting propazition.. though I have heard lots about the reliability of the DA50 and havent heard much about the ZDZ...

ZDZ is a great motor. There was some beef about the carbs on their 100cc and 50cc motors. That has all been fixed and everyone I know is VERY happy with their ZDZ motor.

"the edge just might be better."

You bet your sweet *&^%$^%$ it is!!