That's just 3 cases that I know of personally, and I never said hovering down low was a problem. It's not.. it's when people take it too far into the realm of stupidity and start grabbing the airplanes or bouncing them off the ground that things can get out of control. Seems to me like some of you are so worried about someone telling you that you can't do something, that you're missing the fact that the very thing they want you not to do is just plain dumb in the 1st place.

As for the actual rule.. you guys need to read it. People are forming opinions based upon incomplete/incorrect information. Here is the exact verbage..

Taken from the 2004 AMA Safety Code:

Rule 8:
With the exception of events flown under AMA Competition rules, after launch, except for pilots or helpers being used, no powered model may be flown closer than 25 feet to any person.

Rule 9:
Under no circumstances may a pilot or other person touch a powered model in flight, nor should any part of the model other than the landing gear intentionally touch the ground, except while landing.

so you can fly your own plane closer than 25 feet coz your the pilot?

Firstly, all of them in the pics should know better ! Anything can go wrong and the event co-ordinator knows that . . . . Just because Joe Bloggs can 'Handle' a model like this doesn't make it right at a show or anywhere else for that matter. When flying at the BMFA nats Showline, pilots who fly closer than the runway centre line get a sever b0ll0cking by the flight line CD, and rightly so too.

Imagine for one second what could happen with a Stingray doing 230mph and a linkage let's go . . . . . . Would that one be cool ? ?


FYI:
Just had a peek at the SAA (Scottish Aeromodellers Association) Safety Code and in it, it stipulates that any show model should be flown at lest 20 Meters from the FAR EDGE of the runway during any show. This ensures ALL persons are safe.

----> Flys at a non AMA field and will never fly at an AMA field, except for special competitions (IMAC, etc). I think I am gonna go to the sign shop and get the guys there to make some special stickers. I want the guy who always pisses on everything pissing on AMA. And pissing on "No tail grabs". I might even put one of these on my IMAC plane for next year. It wasnt too long ago that the super motorcross riders were called bad names for the outrageous way that they ride. Now they are involved in the X games and have become the most televised and publicized form of riding. The R/C industry as a whole has a real chance for exposure here with the new down on the deck style of flying. Instead the old farts are gonna try to push this kind of flying underground. It could come back to bite you in the butt one day [>:]

as far as i know all those are over the right side center line, but they arn't in the pilots box by the looks of it.
the full size spit got just as close, as did a full size last year that landed on the runway.
heres the heli that landed between the crowd line and runway.
umm large rockets, fired from the far side of the field, but whos to say they couldn't have fallen over when fired.
Sandown, now THATS!!!!! a dangerous place....

We had a incident at our club whare one of the neighbors got a scanner, would figure what Freq you were on and take out your plane. This went on for 6 years, nothing could be done to stop him.
AMA pulled the insurance for this sight because the members new it was going on so we had to find a new spot to fly.
We a dealing with Insurance companies. Unless you can find loyds of london to write you a special policy, your going to run into problems with this type of flying no mater whare you go, I guess if you own the property, you,ll be all right till somone gets hurt, then your open season. Don,t really think its old Farts trying to stop you, Its insurance companies that will not insure the flying sites. Take alook at what they done to our health insurance. Don,t think Dave BRown or anybody else that flys is trying to over throw 3D. Your fighting a no win battle, unless your willing to insureyourself.
There are companies that do just that, but they got millions. Now no one is going to stop anyone from flying a certain way, have at it. But its going to happen just a matter of when and to whom. Skill level has nothing to do with getting hit, striping servos.

[X(]

This is absolutely absurd that the AMA wants to get rid of tail touching. There are things that are more dangerous than a tail touch...such as a new pilot trying to fly a 200+ mph plane. To me, it seems to be more dangerous to hover 10 feet off the runway, because it can flip backwards into someone's face. If it is on the deck, it just falls, you pick up the plane and restart it. The AMA shouldn't prevent young pilots(and adults) from having fun. It isnt that dangerous.

This is nuts! This point should not even be argued. I enjoy learning and flying 3D as much as anyone but we have NO right to put others at risk.

Every active hobby has aspects of risk. For some of us it is the reason we find a hobby interesting. We risk money and sometimes personal injury. That is our right. Whether we ride dirtbikes, jump out of perfectly good airplanes with a sheet tied to our back or ski downhill at 70 mph. There are many interesting ways that mankind has developed to try to kill himself.

BUT - We have no right to injur any other person in our attempts to amuse ourselves. The AMA rule is set to insulate the hobby from those that wish to put themselves at risk from injuring other parties. It is very simple. If you are in violation of the AMA rules that you are bound by in order to be a member of an AMA club then you are not covered by the policy. You will still be personally liable though.

SO- If you don't mind loosing everything that you own and maybe half of everything that you make for the rest of your working life then assume the risk. It is your choice. If you kill yourself... Who cares? You as a dead person can not sue the club. Your estate can not sue the club because you were in violation of the rules. But if you injur another party, get your wallet ut and call your homeowners, which most likely now has an out since you were breaking a known safety rule set as a standard in the hobby.

But again - AMA has the right to protect others from your indulgences.

I don't agree with the rule as a whole but it can also be considered reasonable. I do believe that there are other aspects of the hobby that are equally dangerous but I also think anyone that rides a motorcycle in traffic with automobiles is an idiot also. But, I respect his right to choose his own death. Luckely motorcyles generally don't kill the wise that ride in automobiles.

And for those young'ns.... Your parents are liable for your actions and they can loose everything they own too.

Great hobby... I still love the 3D stuff and I and the wild bunch I fly around all still try to maintain a high level of safety towards others as we act like fools.

Bean

I still think I have a point.... Or I'm un-noticed!!! WHOOHOO!!!

Nobody wants to put anyone else at risk but the question remains. Is tail touching putting others at risk more than any other low alt. move?

I believe this point will get argued 'till the end of time... along with gun laws, speed limits, why you called in sick for work yesterday and why your wife makes you put the seat down when you want to leave it up. Those who are going to touch their tails are going to touch their tails, those who dont like it are going to continue disliking it as I dislike the fact that my AR15 must remain semi-automatic [&o] . Rather than fight about it lets encourage the fact that if you are going to willingly generate a considerate risk in the name of fun, do it in a way, time or place that puts ONLY YOU at risk... because if I'm going to get a 9000rpm propeller to the head, I'd like thank myself... not you.

You missed two important points to this rule:

1) It only applies to public displays. This separation rule does not apply to normal club flying.

2) It only applies to spectators. Pilots, callers, flightline controllers etc are allowed in the 30 metre safety zone, but should not cross over the flightline.

Having said that I do think lots of good points are being raised in this and the AMD v 3D thread (despite the whinning).

At the moment I cant hover well enough to ethier touch the tail on the ground or catch/touch the plane while in mid air, so for me it is rather all academic.

On the other hand, I doubt I would be willing to do either anyway. I don't wish to damage my plane banging the tail on the ground, and I don't beleive that taking my hands of my tranny at any moment when I am needing all four control imputs is anything other than a stupid thing to do.

However, I see no problem with getting the tail to knock free moving items (eg balloons) or getting someone else (assuming know what they are doing, in terms of both ability and risk) catching a plane out of the air.

There is risk, and then there is being plain dumb. The AMA rule is attempting to determine where the cross over is. And we are argueing whether they have got it right or not. Personally I don't think they have, but it needs amending, not throwing out or ignoring.

Sounds like a bunch of outlaws to me. Rules mean nothing to most of you.

No problem. Just fly at other than AMA "controlled" sites. Drop your AMA affiliation, quit your clubs, and go to the park and do whatever you want.

Just be sure you are heavily insured.

I just don't see how tail touching is so important to everyone.

I hover (a little . . . . just learning) but "pushin the limit" seems foolish and irresponsible to me.

JMHO . . . . flame suit on and prepared for the heat.

Viper

I have made this point in other fourms, but I'll bring it up again. The rule is ridiculous, because in public displays all the crowd wowing comes from close in 3D.

I'm big into 3D, does that make me dangerous? NO

I torkroll over the runway, does that make me dangerous? NO

I rudder touch. Does that make me dangerous? NO

I'm 11 years old, Does that make me dangerous? NO WAY

As long as people have the skill for what they want to do, they should be able to do it without getting yelled at or breaking rules. What's more dangerous? An out of control beginner[X(], or a responsible 3D'er gently tapping his tail on the runway[8D]? I have nearly been hit by out of control beginners, but have never heard of or seen any accident resulting from 3D. I 3D airplanes responsibly, and I fly my heli responsibly. AMA should'nt make rules like these, that should be up to the clubs! Can we do anything about this?


3D-kid330

[8D]JR radios are the ONLY way to fly!

If we cant touch the ground, then why dont we dip our tails in a bucket of water??


3D-kid330

[8D]JR radios are the ONLY way to fly!

My field is so soggy in the winter, I can tailtouch all I want and not hit the ground

ABout the 55+ guys... There was an incident a while back at my club where a guy (flying a Sig LT 25 with a 40 FX) went vertical at full throttle. Somehow, the plane reversed course while the pilot still thought is was going vertical. Anywho, I'm happily flying my Kaos around when I see a yellow blob streaking for the runway. THe thought that went through my mind was "Whoops, that one's had it!". At the last instant, the yellow blob changed course...right for the pilot boxes. By aonlooker account, his wingtip was a mere foot from my shin. Give it some though, LT 25 with 40 FX going straight down at full throttle. It had to have been doing 60 easy. If that thing was one more foot to the left, I'd have had a broken leg. (And somehow while dodging airplanes and shouting things that you get deleted here if I repeated them, I managed to save my airplane )

As a footnote, In the past year, I have been nearly hit 3 times (none of them by myself, thank you peanut gallery). And none of the 3 pilots were attempting 3D maneuvers. I know 4 3D flyers at my club (myself included), and none of us have come close to hitting anything or anybody.

Rule 9:
Under no circumstances may a pilot or other person touch a powered model in flight, nor should any part of the model other than the landing gear intentionally touch the ground, except while landing.

---
Simple Solution?
Install a wire tripod on the rear of the plane - that way you can use it as "landing gear" and also have vertical takeoff's!

Weight

if he had of hit you, you would have been in trouble for touching his model whilst in flight!
i know how you felt tho, i've spent many a day running from disintegrating VMARS and wayward Trainers/Super 60's

only ducked from my Pheonix once but with that planes reactions i didn't need to. Think you see me flinch in my Cougar hang vid, first time in 0 wind and pointing it at you is weird.

Hey folks!

Interesting thread. I'm coming in a bit late, but I saw reference to the folks from the flying cirkus ( http://www.flyingcirkus.com ) hovering a plane on top of a person laying on the deck. Well, I did some research on this topic and found that they were actually using a lipstick cam mounted to a 20' boom to film that shot. Nice effect, it seemed to have worked. What a great video.

Happy 3d'ing

Wiredinoc