lucas-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Southern touch
Thanks once again for threats, you can try to control this board and all opionions on it , But it just like touching a plane in flight My opinion its BS. Risk factor, Fear factor, It is one element of 3D that should be stoped.
If you are looking for that type of Risk you should become a skydiver and attemp low pulls see which one can pull the lowest the looser buys.

Flyfalcons

Let's keep it civil guys. No personal attacks please.

Sprink

Every time we land, and this applies to all fliers, we are guiding the plane towards us, or at least close enough that one big gust or a servo failure will quickly guide the plane into the pilots box.

Four years ago I was learning to fly. My legs, and more importantly my thumbs, were shaking with nerves and conentration just trying to get a 40 size trainer to go around in something vaguely like a circuit. And part of this training included flying the plane towards me at a low level so I could land the thing. Sounds bl**dy dangerous when you put it like that, but every one of us has been there, done that, and moved on to bigger and better things.

For the four years I have been a member at my club, as far as I know the only accidents to have occured all happened in the pitts while engines were being started or tuned. There have been some "near misses", but all have been with newbies or those with little skill.

Yes rudder touching is dangerous, but so is taking off and flying a circuit. That is the whole point.

southern_touch9

My Feedback: (3)

Threats?? You havent received a threat, I dont do threats and hide behind a computer its not my style. How about quoting the threat.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

startings dangerous, your right by that prop, hell building is dangerous, i've got a KNIFE!!!!! and every single plane i've build has been blooded by accident lol

i've see way more newbies doing typical newbie things which we all do than i've seen 3D go astray.
BAN THE NEWBIES! THEY WILL KILL US ALL!

Ian.W

LMAO

RC Havoc

My Feedback: (-1)

Ban the Newbies? How are they going to learn? Leanings a tough process man! You learn from your mistakes. Some more then others, but gotta learn somhow... I just help them out so they dont end up killing me. Usualy they listen, but every now and then you get a know it all. Then you let them finger it out themselves and back away

Mike_Mc

he was kidding.

Abraxxas

I cant come up with any more good points that havent already been touched upon by somebody earlier in this thread... but as the topic continues to brew replies and thoughts and so on, just one thing comes to mind. COMMON SENSE. If everybody used a little common sense, there would'nt be any issues. You can beat on the do's and donts of this hobby, that flight, anything in life for hours, but when it all comes down to it, it is a lack of using common sense that hinders the mind. Know your skill level, know your airplane, know your airspace, dont fly past your ability around others, be respectful, ask for help, check your batteries, and most of all HAVE FUN. If everybody did that, where would the problem be?

RC Havoc

My Feedback: (-1)

Mike... I know he was kidding

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

This is the silliest arguement without a doubt. Safety is NOT about jealousy. If you're touching the tail on the ground, you CAN break linkages, servo mounts, etc. Just how much control do you have then? And you're not the only one it can affect. That airplane can cover a lot of ground in a hurry if it leans over and heads towards the pits, the pilots, or whatever. In MOST cases however.. this just isn't that big a deal.

I don't have a problem with the rudder touching NEARLY as much as the idiots out there grabbing their airplanes in a hover. No matter how good a pilot you are, no matter how reliable your equipment is.. things CAN happen. A man was killed in Houston this past weekend when a helicopter got away from its pilot and hit him the neck. I've seen airplanes get away from Quique Somenzini as well with nearly disastrous results, and he is among the best there is at this game. All it takes is someone to turn on their radio on the same freq as you, and control is nonexistant.

3DFanatic

My Feedback: (5)

Building is very VERY dangerous.
*holds up finger with wing securely attached to it* Ow... And what idiot thought to make CA burn as it cures?? Is that supposed to add insult to injury or something?!?!

lucas-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Doug
Thankyou Doug, coming from someone who has called for a number TOC pilots over the years.
I could not agree more.
I think hearing it from you, and hopfully someother TOC pilots, just maybe they will figure it out.
This Stop telling us what to do, we will do whatever we want attitude, is not good for 3D or the sport.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

problem with telling people NOT to do something is they will go and do it, tell them how to do it safe is much better, ( kids, sex, need i say more )

jealousy: all the problems i hear from people are when they are the up and coming new hotshot pilot ( or wannabee ) but the old grumpys that can't do this stuff take offense to this style of flying, to a 3D pilot circuits being done where hes trying to hang are just as annoying.
i know of people that have been kicked out of clubs because this style was frowned apon.
me i'm lucky, no one minds me and the couple others that are following me, but we don't steal the field all day, everyone gets a fly, everyones happy.

now this IS true, if one of the board on the AMA did tail touch, grab and all the other things, he wouldn't want the rest of the guys there telling him not to do what he loves, so a compromise would be reached, that hasn't happened so we can only assume the board is made up of castor loving, left hand circuit flyers

you can loose control at any point in flying, whether that be a HUGE heavy warbird that would kill you with a glance, sports plane doing 70mph over the patch or that 200 mph delta, don't see them banned, in the hang you are most likely to fall over pretty soon, with the most chance of getting out of the way.
The heli accident is very tragic, but i bet there wont be a no hovering within 20' rule.

the !QUOT!nanny state!QUOT! is starting to annoy me here now, the memorial poppys no longer come with pins in case you hurt your self putting it on. gezzz we're remembering guys who got shot to bits for this country, and now they worry about a damn pin.

Sprink

I think that you would be surprised how much jealousy plays in things like this. However a bigger driver is probably simply due to lack of understanding of something new.

3D flying is new, only really gaining in poplularity over the last 2 or 3 years. Most of the people high up in organisations such as the AMA and the UKs BMFA will, almost by definition, have been in the hobby for years and years for them to get to their positions.

They will not see doing circuits, or other established modes of flying (even advanced ones like pylon racing or pattern flying) as dangerouse because they are established. Or if they do then because some of them do it and know it, they come up with sensible rules (like making pylon racers wear head protection).

With no or very few important people doing 3D flying of any kind, there is no understanding, so you get silly rules because someone has seen something and thought that is dangerous, lets ban it. No one is pushing the other way, which would result in more sensible rules.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

that happens in my club, one of the founder members considers all funflys wrong, ugly and pointless, he's from the pattern age. but he says it in a joking fashion and would never stop us flying them even tho as he's never done it he does consider it slightly unsafe.
which is understandable as when before these planes doing this, flying sub stall was impossible. pattern is totaly the ying to 3D's yang

i consider helis unsafe and i hate heli pilots spinning up on the edge of the patch right next to me then hovering at eye level, i've seen blade grips go for no reason. but they probably don't like me hanging next to them putting them to shame either lol

I don't fly helis, i don't go to the heli field, so to me this is new and unsafe which is the angle the main bodies view 3D at.
like full size flying i bet more people have died driving to the field than have died flying
and you can't blame 3D for the cut and lost fingers from starting.

lucas-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I think the ones that started 3D Jasen, Chip Hyde, Kirk Grey, and all the TOC pilots will disagree with you.
All I hear on this, is not so much the rule change because its dangerous to touch a plane in flight, but every one is ingorant but us.
If your going to make a valid point, please make one on the issue at hand.
Its sounds like a bunch of little kids whinning, because your not getting your way.
If your going to represent 3D have some class.

southern_touch9

My Feedback: (3)

The person who started 3D is Ququie not chip, kirk and certainly not jason (which for the record are all super pilots that can fly far better than I can (right now)). The rest of them just followed in his footsteps. Besides there is no more TOC and I have a good feeling from all of the younger talent that I have been seeing I feel that these guys might have a run for their money coming within the next 3-5 years. About 75% of this new talent is based on all out RAW 3D with enough precision added in the routine to make the pattern guys jealous
NOBODY on here argues that there is not some risk involved in tail touching or rudder grabs. And I would assume that nobody would argue against the fact that this risk can be avoided. However, any time there is an airplane in the air then a certain level of risk has been taken, the only way to eliminate all risk is to say at home in your shell. Its the clubs (organized or not) decision to decide what goes on. If the club is an AMA club they need to stick to all of the AMA rules. My club is not AMA b/c we dont want all of the Chiefs and Indians to say what we can and cant do. Instead we are a bunch of guys who go out there and have fun, we stay within our limits when others are present. We are yet to have a problem after 6 years of flying. Im not saying this is the best method for everybody but it has worked very well with our club. I think other clubs should try this and maybe have some kind of legal wavier that you sign when you join up saying that you cover your own @$$ if something happens. Anybody is welcome to show up and fly but we dont take kindly to those who come in and try to establish official rules. You will more than likely be asked to leave in a very southern style

Trombe

My Feedback: (1)

Are we still allowed to tail-touch water?

Ian.W

Yes, i agree............the worst is where you use a damp kitch roll and glue your finger to that....OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It hurts loads.

Dave Matthews

Ok so here is something missing in this thread.

Here in the UK, we are all issued with insurance from all the modeling bodies wich state in the rule book (clearly printed) that no model upto 7 Kgs (15 lbs) should be flown at a distance closer than 30 Meters from any person, property and if the model is over & kgs (15 Lbs) this should be increased to 50 Meters with the model only that distance coming down to 30 meters wilst taking off and landing. So with this in mind and as the Pilot is a person, Guess we have some very long armed peolpe flying 3D being able to touch their model in flight. As for sending your buddy out to a model to touch it for you . . . . . . . . Are these guys insane !!!!????!!!! As for doing something just because a "TOP" flyer does it . . . . . That's not right or are you a lemming ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

I fly 3D, scale, sport, jets, helicopters, gliders, etc, etc, etc and it realy worries me when I am stood beside a fellow pilot and next thing a model is hovered infront of my face. Fine if you are out on a site on your own, but with other . . . . pure stupidity !

So what is the USA rule on a model to object recommeded distance whilst in flight and how long are arms in the USA ?????

Besides that as "dcronkhite" said tail touches can and do sometimes cause damage to an inflight model. And any model damaged in flight is a potential problem.

It has happened to me and after losing a model to this I stopped (cost too much) also at a major USA comp this year, a TOP pilot stripped 2 Futaba 5301's on the rudder the same way and very nearly lost his model.

Yes, it looks cool, but not the most sensible thing to do. So come on an lets be sensible in front of others and not hot shots.

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Safety and the lack thereof is not strictly relegated to the 3d crowd and I hope I don't give that impression. Trust me.. I push for safety first whether it's at an IMAC contest, fun fly, jet rally, slow-flyer fly-in, whatever.

I made a fair amount of noise a couple years ago about the stupidity of some pilots grabbing the tails on airplanes in hovers and so forth, and in response, I got pictures of those same people spraying cleaner on the tails and wiping them off with paper towels, people knocking hats off their heads with the rudder and other such nonsense.. Strangely, I got no pictures of the 40% Edge 540 that locked out, flew through the pits, and hit the front windshield of a van in the parking area. I got no pictures of the Goldberg Ultimate that got away from its pilot and crashed in the pits at my local club. And not surprisingly, I got no pictures of the 35% Extra 300L that crashed down upon its pilot in Washington when a sudden 'wind gust' got him out of position. He's lucky to be alive as that nice 28" prop crashed down only a foot from his head.

Basically the rationale I'm getting out of this thread is.. People are more upset about being told they can't do something, then the fact that it's just plain stupid and unsafe to do it. You know when I was growing up, my mother told me the burner on the stove was hot. I didn't need to stick my hand on it to find out myself. I guess maybe some of you do.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

i can't imagine not being able to fly my model closer than 30m, thats further than a swimming pool, even big planes look small at that distance. i knew it was a rule for crowd line but for pilots too? they get closer than that at Woodsprings and we know how safety mad they are there!
heres Ali hanging his Extra close in, and a Stingray doing 230mph passes over the runway with the Bumpy Green guys getting as close as they can.
if that wasn't enough then a full size heli landed half that distance to the crowd

southern_touch9

My Feedback: (3)

Come on Doug,
Your using a few isolated cases where this has happened. Lets compare the amount of these cases to the cases of High speed aircraft crashes into the pits and into cars, and beginners getting dumb thumbs. Without any info in front of me I think it would be safe to assume that % wise hovering down on the deck is a very small portion of out of control crashes into the pit area.

3DFanatic

My Feedback: (5)

Ian, yes. When you see smoke lifting from the joint, you know it's going to hurt