I just recently finished my Mat Chapman Cap 232, and that plane tracks wonderfly in the air, but I'm having issues where it will snap in a turn if I'm trying to do a sharp turn... it wants to snap to the right. The wings are not warped, everything is lined up perfectly. Would some addittional nose weight help???? Is there something else I should be looking at??

Thanks!!
Deck

Plane specs:

Moki 1.8 w/ brison muff
73" wing I think.. or 72.. forgot

Check your elevator throws, and make sure you are using the recommended throws. Too much elev. will cause this plane to snap. Daz...

Almost all of today's scale aerobatic models are elevator sensitive because they are designed that way. Why, because 3D flight requires a very effective rudder and elevator. Usually, people don't get into too much trouble with an over sensitive rudder, but the elevator is another story.

When I'm flying a new aerobatic plane I set up the elevator at the lowest recommended elevator throw and I set up another rate that's 1/2-3/4 of that throw and I always dial in some expo. I also use the front of the CG range. This will greatly desensitize the elevator which is very important to me in the beginning. As I become more familiar with the plane I begin to move back the CG and then dial in more throw if I feel it's necessary. If you want 3D ability, I recommend you set up dual or triple rates so you can have wild throws while stalled and sane throws for everything else.

BTW, I've owned a couple Caps, an Edge 540, a Staudacher and a One Design. All of these planes had sensitive elevators.....nothing like the typical sport planes I was use to.

Wiz

The elevator throw listed in the H9 manual is excessive for normal (non 3D) flight. Set your elevator throw so you can get a clean snap when you want it not when the plane wants it. You will find another thread about this subject from a few weeks ago.
"TMills" has a very good reply in that thread that you will find helpful.

Mike Wiz: Amen brother!

Last Saturday I flew my new WM 1.20 Extra 300s for the first time. On every other plane that I have owned (fun flys, stiks, combat stuff), I set the control throws to 'as much as I could get' on high rates and basically 50% to 75% of that for low rates. What a mistake! The first sharp bank-and-yank put the Extra into a nasty snap about 75' off the ground. Luckily I realized what had happened and let off the elevator and recovered (barely)...but it could have resulted in a crash that most likely would have totalled the plane.

I guess what they say is true: Experience is something you needed right before you get it!

-Tom

Here's a link to the other post. I found it so helpful and informative that I printed it out. Definitely a must for setting these things up.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...035&forumid=31

Mikee

Mike,

Good info it that thread. Thanks for the link. I still do it a little different than Tim, but his recomendation is a good one too.

Wiz

Mike;

Posts timing was perfect for me. I've been flying a lot of bank and yank planes and just recently started getting into some of the aerobatic planes. My first experience with this stuff was with a Wattage Sporty, it's a 30 inch fully aerobatic electric that's setup pretty much like an Extra. It's short coupled and setup wrong it's one of the snap happiest planes around. With the correct CG and elevator throw it's a *****cat that'll do anything in the book short of hovering. Learned a lot from that plane (the hard way naturally). I just started applying what I'd learned from it to a Model Tech Sukhoi (.46 size) that's also got a snap happy rep when I ran across the post. So it kind of reinforced what I'd experienced and helped alot to put it all together. Appreciate your input too.

Thanks

Mike

when flying a plane[ or heli] like this i often use up to 40%
expodential on the elevator and 30% on the aileron
i use as much throws as possible but tone it down with expo
i don't use dual rates it takes to long/hassle to switch back and forth during flight
if you don't pull on the sticks hard............ it wont snap
planes like these are meant to react as they do

I run a little selectable reflex off a switch on my Extra. Durring normal flight the ailerons are in the normal position. Before a landing aproach, i flip the switch and the ailerons both go up 1/8 inch to create the washout needed for a little safety margin. Works great.

Has anyone tried flaperon settings. Where ailerons work up and down oppisite of the elevator. Or does this create an even more dangerous snap situtation? BTW mine seems to snap to the right also on hard banks off power... could it be lateral balance or does this plane just like falling off to the right?

I find the recommended low rate to be a little high also. only time I need high rate is in stalled 3D like manuvers.

Hi Toymaker,

Using flaperon for reflex sounds like a great idea!! If the ailerons go up a little when the elevator goes up, and down when the elevator goes down, it creates washout for normal and inverted flight, and only when you need it. Nice, i'll have to give it a try.

The way I read it, toymaker asks about aileron (flap/spoileron) movement opposite to what the elevator is doing, and shmo46 answers with moving elevator and aileron the same directions...I'm confused...

Seems to me that engaging spoilerons in slow flight will create the safety margin, and using flaperons may increase the speed at which a snap occurs.

Jezzzzz.... am I cunfusing the issue....

Yes, I meant flaperons... flaps down with up elevator/flaps up with down elevator, like the way the control line guys do it. It increases lift, but will it increase the stall of the wingtips causing them to drop.

I have used it on other planes with straight wings with success but am hesitant to try it on this 25% Cap 232. On my other plane I used it on you have to stay on the power when using it though because it caused the airplane to slow down more.

I would think reflexing the ailerons up would kill lift increasing stall tendancies and making the airplane land hotter.

I just found the answer to my question on a different forum.


Here it is:

Drooping the ailerons will make the model unresponsive to ailerons at slow speed, cause major adverse yaw and susceptible to tip stalls.

Does anyone use dual rates? On my cap i set the low rate for the elevator so it will not snap at full stick. Takes some experimenting. I set the high rate for 3D and, with experience, it will become 2nd nature to switch bace and forth while you're flying.

From replies I have read it seems that most people prefer setting a lot of expo rather than use dual rates because they don't want to flip the switch. I have dual rates setup on mine for high (not 3D) and low, but I fly almost exclusively on high with -50% expo on the elevator. The only reason I'm using dual rates is I'm still trying to determine the best elevator throw. Presently my plane snaps unexpectedly more than I like on the high rate (which is already considerably less than the manuals high rate).

I'm still having a lot of problems with my cap.... On low rates, I probably have about 1/2" of throw, and it still snaps like crazy when I give it elevator, and I almost put it into a tree doing a demo today because when I pulled out of a spin, it snapped and lost a lot of altitude trying to do a gentle pull-out.

I remember way back in the days of my Top Flight P-40 that it used to snap a lot.. and I ended up adjusting the linkages so the ailerons were up a very little when centered, and it made a world of difference.. I'm thinking about mixing a minute amount of spoilerons mixed into the elevator and try that..

I REALLY need as much help as I can get with this one....... it'll be a sweeet flying plane after that's done.. that Moki 1.8 is really singing now

Thanks a ton!!!
deck

move cg forward...... nose heavy
check engine thrust angle/check wing incidence

Sooo.. I should be making it a little bit more nose heavy>??? I'm sorry for being sooo dense but I'll be the first to admit that I am ... I'm just curious because I also fly a little Goldberg Extra 300, and I have that balanced pretty tailheavy, and it REALLY flys nicely. SOrry for all the questions

Your elevator is overly sensative, correct? I would double check the CG. If it's near the rearward part of the recomended range...or behind it I would move in forward. If the CG is pretty good (Smack on center or just in front of center) I would lower the travel of the elevator.

If you are using a computer radio you might try dialing in 20-30%.

Do only one of these things at a time and then fly. Make these adjustments in small increments so you get a feel for how they affect the performance of the plane.

Also, double check that each elevator half is centered in the same position and that they have exactly the same throw.

Once you get it so you are comfortable flying then you can concentrate on dialing it in, but as long as your afraid of the way it handles it's going to be tough to dial in anything.

Wiz