I need some help and I'm not sure where to start. First of all I have a cap with at Da 100 for power on it and I'm a little tail heavy. Every time I pull up into a hover to torque roll I have to give serious up elevator just to hold the plane vertical. I can torque roll pretty decent with other planes(especially with the electrics) and on average I can get at least ten or more revolutions. I'm stumped with this plane. I used to own a hanger 9 sukoi and I could t roll the heck out of it with no problems at all.(Man I really miss that plane!!!!)Even on high rates of at least 45 degress or more the plane wants to nose over. Is this a thrust issue? Do I need more down or up thrust or possibly right thrust? I tried to add up thrust but it really did not do much.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why this plane is soo hard to torque roll? Please help. I'm losing interest in this plane and really don't want to sell it. This plane just does not want to stay vertical when I hang it on the prop. Any help would be appreciated.

Odd, I will have mine going this weekend with the same combo, be interesting to see what it does. I would think its a thrust issue myself. My sukhoi just needs a few little jabs here and there to keep it straight.

John,

Please let me know how it goes. It really is strange. My sukhoi was really easy to hover or torque roll. I really miss that plane. Please keep me informed.

I will, could it be too tail heavy? Got any vid of it?

I have been flying mine all last year. I have it balanced at the aft CG according to the manual. It torque rolls really nice and I need little to no elevator when the plane is pure vertical. If it is leaning forward a bit then I need to be on the elevator.

I noticed when you get in the sweet spot the torque roll rate gets going pretty fast with a 27x10 Menz. For some reason I feel the 28x10 Menz slows the torque roll rate down a bit and softens the plane while hovering. I use the 28x10 now. I got a Mejzlik 27x10 to try but due to the weather I will have to wait to try it.

I know you said its a little tail heavy but from what you are describing it sounds noseheavy.
The DA-100 up front is heavier than the recomended motors for this plane. I know the plane flies great with the DA but there is still more weight on the firewall than originally intended.

My 33% Cap would lock in nicely in a TR without having to hold much back pressure.
ZDZ 80
CG just behind the tube.

I have my batteries aft of the wingtube and a couple ounces of lead on the tail. I'm sure that it is a little tail heavy. This plane needs a lot and I mean a lot of up elevator to hold vertical. As mentioned before, I do know how to torque roll Really!! I do!!. Thanks guys for the comments so far.

I've been flying CAP's for a few years now and I'd say that they need more up elevator to hold a TR than any of the other unlimited designs. I believe it is due to the low wing.

I agree with Wayne that you might not be as far back on the CG as you think. Try flying the plane and rolling inverted. How much down elevator does it need? If it is more than just breathing on the stick you can probably bring it back some more. I'd move the CG back a little at a time until it starts porpoising or "floating" with power off (when upright).

The H9 cap will require a great deal of up elevator until you really get the plane in the groove. You might even feel as though the plane is on its back a degree or so before it gets in the groove.

Good luck to you. Hope you find the groove, as the plane is a kick to 3D.

Joe

The plane will fall pretty hard when inverted but I'm also at the point that when I land I balloon once I chop the throttle. I'm a little concerned that if I start adding weight it will really be a pain to land due to stall or excessive ballooning. You guys really dont think the thrust is an issue here????. I will go back to the stock thrust settings and start adding weight in the tail. Wish me luck.

Do a thrust test next time you're out. Let us know what you find.

Joe

TurboBruce,

Check out this thread. JohnVH is setting his plane up with the same motor and is noseheavy.
Maybe you guys can compare notes...

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/H9_c...1520100/tm.htm

If you balloon when you chop the throttle then that's definitely a thrust issue, in this case too much down.
Take the "down" out and put some "up" and see if this improves things.

Stratos.-

Thrust and CG issues can be revealed by systematically observing the models behavior in flight. Assumptions are made with reference to the trim chart noted below. Such as the model is properly aligned, setup and square.

[link=http://www.rcaerobats.net/trim_chart.htm]Trim chart[/link]

I agree with Stratos. What he says is in the Up/Down thrust test #1. You have too much down thrust.

Joe

I will give the trim chart a try as well. It is too windy to fly today. I will have to wait until Saturday to find out. Thanks for the help so far guys.

Well I rebalanced it and guess what? Yes you guys were right. The plane was balanced at 4 3/4 inches from the leading edge. I moved the batteries back and brought the ignition battery to the wing tube. I added two ounces of lead to the tail and it just about balances at 5 and 3/4 inches behind the leading edge. I think this will be a good start. How far back are you guys with your CG?
Is anyone having ballooning issues while trying to land? How about the plane snapping out of a loop in low rates? I have had all of these problems in the past with this plane and now it seems that I wasn't even tail heavy but still had these problems. Thanks for the info so far.

I had to go through a whole ordeal with improving the hovering abilities with this plane.

It had a 3W 100 old version on it and I traded it out to a DA 100. With the trade, it became nose heavy (the 3W was much heavier, but the DA had to be spaced farther off of the firewall...moving the engine weight farther forward that with the 3W, making it more nose heavy even with CF gear). To move the wieght aft, I didn't want to put any dead weight in it, so some battery boxes were rigged up aft of the CG. One in the tail near the servos, and one on the 2nd former in the fuse...that CG is now adjustable.The plane is a dual reciever setup, 2 batteries can fit in the very aft box, or one battery can go in the aft box and the other battery can go in the more forward box or even closer to the CG.
well the boxes came out very nice and worked fantastic...but the CG was way too far back with even one battery in the farthest box and one in the other box. The plane balloned on landing like crazy...but the hovering was pretty much effortless. I moved one battery in front of the CG and left one in the aft box, but have not been able to test that out yet. I love the setup because there is a lot of room to work, it has a hatch in the back now and all. I should get pictures one of these days.

So to answer your question, with the aft CG I am having balloning problems and I am having the plane snap out of loops(I expected that). The CG I had with it balloning a great deal, was behind the recommended marks, I don't know where it is at the moment. I will have to get on that soon and try to help you out.

I went to the field today and all I can say is WOW!!!
What a world of difference the cg made. The plane still balloons on landings but it isn't that bad and is managable. The plane required Way less elevator input and I will be back in action with my torque rolling soon. Thanks alot for all of the good info guys, it really helped me out alot. FYI, my cg is now set at 5 3/4 inches. I may try 6 inches back next week. Total of 4oz in the tail. Thanks again!!

Bruce

Hey Bruce, I put the maidens on mine today, it too required a fair bit of up elevator. Little bit of the nature of the beats I guess. Man this is a ROCKET though!! I need to weigh mine yet, but holy moly does it move out.

Mine weights 26lbs even.

I have all my 3d planes very tail heavy, I just put in 3-4 clicks of down elevator trim for landings, especially when landing into a stiff wind, is this a common practice?

I would say no.

Hey John have you flown your cap anymore lately? How do you like it? I had the Sukhoi before and I think I liked it a little better than the cap. The cap is a very loose plane when you want it to be though. I love my cap now that I have resolved some cg issues and I can get back to putting her on the deck. What is your cg at? I need to put mine on a diet at 26lbs. A lighter ignition battery and some carbon for the landing gear for starters. Your cap does the best harriers that you have ever seen right??? That is by far the best trick in the caps bag. No wing rock at all ever in a harrier.

Bruce, it harriers great, about like my sukhoi, I love my sukhoi, the cap is different, and probably a little wilder IMO, but I also have alot of horsepower on it as my sukhoi needs a DA100 instead of the zdz80.

My cap is 23.5lbs, weighed it today! I was happy.

As far as a favorite, dont have one yet, I like both!

My CG is just behind the forward most CG recomended, Its going to take the batteries in the tail to get it back to the aft CG point, but the way it flew saturday Im not changing a thing!!!

Have not flown it since sat. The weather looks better on wed, so hopefully then!

23.5lbs WOW!!
How did you get it so light?? I'm using 3 2150 mah NIMH batteries. Are you using Duralights or Powerflights? Are you sure about your scale? That number does not add up considering Wayne had a ZDZ 80 and his also was 23.5 lbs.

Well, Im just using the bathroom scale, same one I weigh all my planes on and they seem to be in the ballpark.. It has CF gear and tailwheel and spinner, 2 2700 nimh's for the single rx, one more for the engine, one matchbox for the rudder, one servo per aileron instead of two, and all servo's are 8611's, no pilot, cut all foam out of canopy, aluminum stand offs, Am I sure about the scale no, has it been fairly close before? Yes! It cant be far from that number.