Has anyone else flying the Lanier 80" CAP232 ARF had the wing flutter? Mine fluttered today and was destroyed in the ensueing crash. I couldn't pull out and it would not stop. The wing tips were actualing traveling up and down about 6 inches and making a horrendous noise.

We did have a flyer bring a brand new Lanier Edge 540 to the field (the 73 inch ARF). It did the same thing. The whole wing started fluttering like mad on takeoff. One of our best pilots was doing the honors and got out of the throttle and literally milked it back. It had flutterd the wing so hard, it bent the aluminum wing tube.

Whoa.

I'll be maidening my 73" edge in a month or two. Can you guys describe the aileron control setups you used? Naturally, I don't want to see flutter on the first flight.

Thanks.

As far as aileron linkages, the plane made two flights. The first flight it fluttered the wings and suffered a rough landing. There was some slop in the aileron linkages, so things were repaired, Dubro HD servo arms were used with 4-40 hardware, Hitec 605 servos. Before the second flight the ailerons were checked over VERY WELL and everything was nice and tight.

Second flight, same thing. It wasn't just the ailerons fluttering, it was the whole wing. The wingtips were oscillating a good 5 inches or more up and down. It was milked back with superhuman effort as anything above 1/3 throttle caused it to start fluttering the whole wing again. After getting it on the ground, the wing tube was bent from the violence of the flutter.

This model had an OS 160FX on it.

I have seen control surface flutter and even lost my 4-star 40 to aileron flutter on a stupid downhill speed pass. BUT I have never seen anything like this. It wasn't control surface flutter, It was the whole wing flopping up and down in resonance. Spooky.

That's scary. I've read/heard of many of these planes flying, but never this type of flutter. I wonder what the owner and/or Lanier has to say about the problem or fix.

I have the Lanier 80" CAP (ARF, not the kit) and have had no probs so far. My ailerons are sealed, and I have single 80+ in. oz. servos in each wing half.

What is yours powered with? Mine has a FOX 3.2 on it.

sorry to hear of your probs....

Could it have something to do with how the wing halves are connected? (I'm not familiar with how it's constructed). Or, what about the mounting points.

Let us know when you figure this one out.

Mike

Mike,
the wings plug in on a 1" dia. aluminum tube. The tube survived the crash intact. The wing is straight and could probably be repaired if there was a fuselage left to mate it to. I would be skeptical of repairing the wing though after such severe flutter. The wing tips (both) were traveling a good 4-6" up and down. I had JR4131 servos on the ailerons, 90+ oz.in. of torque. Engine was a Brison 3.2 which sustained major damage. Both aileron servos and one rudder and elevator servo had gears stripped, not just a few teeth off the gears either. the only thing I can figure out so far is that the wing stalled and the ensuing turbulence caused the wing to flutter. It must have fluttered at a harmonic frequency of the wing as it would not stop as the aircraft slowed down.

Lanier has not responded to any of my e-mails with questions on this airplane. From past experience this is nothing new.

Marco

I got the Edge 540 ARF 73" with probably 40 flights on it with not narry a problem....actually it is a AWESOME plane!!
the blenders it will do are unbelievable!!!

T28Pilot,
A friend of mine has the Edge540 and it flies great. He had some problems to begin with but sealing hinge gaps took care of any flutter. He powered his with a FPE2.4 engine. Very fun airplane.

The 80" CAP232 was a good flying airplane, too.

Marco

I know that on my (not flown) cap arf the wing incidence and stab incidence were WAY off. The wings were off by almost 2 degrees and in different directions and the stab was off a good 1.5 degrees. I also noticed on mine that one of the wings was not tight on the tube and could be moved up and down a bit. I would not be surprised these could have caused the problem but who knows.

Terry,

My wing tube sockets were loose in the wing panels to begin with. After contacting Lanier they offered a fix but would not replace the wings. I begrudgingly applied the fix and both wings were rock solid. I never bothered to check incidences as the airplanes flew great, floated in for landings, and showed no bad tendencies at all. Stalls were straight ahead and level with no inclination to drop a wing. I also had sealed the aileron hinge gaps. I don't know what to do. Lanier is not answering my e-mail. I wouldn't mind another CAP but I hesitate to spend over $400 on kit and not know why there is a problem.

Marco

Marco,

Thanks...what was the fix that worked for you? I am not surprised Lanier didn't help you. They basically told me that I was on my own. I will certainly never purchase anything from them again...good or not.

Terry

Terry and Marco,
I have dealt with Wayne at Lanier and he has been very helpful. When I needed clarification with building instructions or spare parts he was there. I have never had a problem with their customer service. Why don't you pick up the phone and give them a call? Perhaps they are not receiving your e-mails. Lanier has been in business along time and I am sure that they will help you. Most of their kits are warrantied against material defects for 90 days. Try not to draw any conclusions till you've talked to someone.

I got to go with Giant Scale...call Lanier....Great people always to deal with.....

Thumbs up to Wayne at Lanier.

He will go the extra mile.

Call him

Per a conversation with Lanier a few months ago, some of the earlier CAP's wings did not have the plywood brace on the wing tube outboard end installed because of a factory oversight. The only thing bracing the wing tube at the outboard end is the foam of the wing core itself. I found this on my plane. After inspecting a second wing set that had the plywood bracing, it is a small ply doughnut glued to the foam core in a hollowed out area in the wing. Not much glue was used and it easily broke free. I installed a larger ply brace that extended to the wing skins.

I would assume that if you had a kit without the bracing or one with and one or both broke free, this would allow the wing tube to eventually wallow out the foam and cause the wing to oscillate.

The reason I checked in the first place was a previous posting in this forum. Otherwise I would have probably lost this plane.

Giant Scale,

I did call Lanier and informed them about all the problems with my kit. When I gave them the list of design and manufacturing problems there response was "thanks for the info". The best they would do is send me a piece of covering to patch the area where I had to cut the saddle to get the stab to fit right. There may be some great customer service people at Lanier but I did not talk to them.

I am used to fixing a few things on arf kits and doing upgrades..etc....but.....the cap arf kit that I got was junk and I mean junk. The construction is so suspect that I did not fly it and don't think I should have to spend hundreds of dollars and countless hours fixing Lanier's mistakes. This kit should have never been sold and sending me a piece of covering just doesn't cut it. The kit costs quite a bit of money and I have talked with at least a dozen people who had similar experiences with this kit.

The bottom line is this kit should have never made it on the truck and should have been replaced at Lanier's expense with one that was properly designed and put together. I have little patience for companies that put out less than adequate kits and don't support them.

If you've had good luck with them then by all means continue buying from them but they will never see another dollar from me.

Marco, has Lanier replied yet at all?
Hopefully, they would at least have some comment.
Hopefully they realize there are many people out here with Lanier products that have a little pucker factor and need them to reply.

Ok I got to get in on the Lanier Customer Service. I have one of the Lanier 1.20 Edges and after several flights on it the paint on the cowl started coming off because of some fuel getting on it. I thought that the cowl should be fuel proof since the plane was designed for glow motors. When I called them they told me that they would not replace the cowl but I could repaint it with Lustercote paint. I then sanded down the cowl where the spots were for touch up and then was going to clear the entire cowl. As soon as the red touched the other paint it blistered and peeled up to no end. I then contacted Lanier again to let them know that now my cowl was worse off then when I started. They told me that they could sell me a new cowl for close to $60. I laughed at them and told them that I had done what they had told me the first time and now they cowl was pretty much ruined (could have stripped all the paint off and reprimed and repainted everything, but its an ARF). Finally after many many calls to them we worked it out so that I had to give them a credit card and they would ship me a cowl and if they did not have the old one back in 30 days of them shipping me the new one then they were going to charge me. Now I stick to H9 products. Hell I can buy a new cowl for the 1/3 Extra for $29 from my LHS. Lanier almost got my business on the 30% Edge but I am glad I actually had to deal with them before I gave them any more business


Chris Puckett
Puckett Model Aviation

Lanier, a once great company, has unfortunately lost touch with the sport. Dealing with them is like playing Russian Roulette.

Lanier CAP 232 28%
I have several flights on mine and have done every stupid maneuver I can think of without any problems.
G-62 on ignitation in the nose, Hitec 605 on the ailerons with 40/40 rods and ball links.
All of the control surfaces are sealed and it came in at 19lbs.
Flies great and a lot of fun.

Did Lanier do a wing fix? Mine has a sleeve inside of wing that runs the full lenght of the tube,is that ok Marco? Thanks Gerald

I do not know if Lanier has fixed the wing problem or not. I have not yet replaced my kit and if I do it will not be with another Lanier kit. I think the Hangar 9 80" CAP232 ARF looks better aand is definitely built far superior to the Lanier ARF.

Guys,

I would skip Lanier all together. Get an Aeroworks kit for a little more, and you can't go wrong. Lighter, stronger, lower wing loading...the list goes on.

Then you'll know you won't have problems. I've got too much money in servos and engine to trust them to a suspect airframe. Remember, the airframe is the cheapest part when we're dealing with large airplanes.

Steve