Mine enjoyed several flights today.

Needs more right thust, no question.

I'm gonna go to lipos that should loose me a bit of weight in the nose, casue its nose heavy, however its only noticable in a hover having to pump the elevator to keep it up.

Tight tight wingtip spins. Slow inverted flat spins. Does rolling harriers like a foamy.

There was some vid shot, I will try to post it when I get it.

sweeeeeet......................

YNOT,

That's awesome. I'm getting ready to load up and head to the field now for my maiden. Did you find the suggested "low rates" to be docile enough for a nervous pilot? I don't want too much throw on my trim flight

Also, you said it felt "noseheavy"... was that balanced at suggested CG or forward?

Tom

On my ZDZ 50 im only getting about 6 1/2 mins flying time on a 16oz tank. The guy I bought it off said it was still running quite rich but surely I should be getting more time that this?

Its had 15 tanks through it, 3 with me. Its not slobbering rich by any means but is definitly a bit on the rich side.

Angus

Hi Erik,
Instead of fuel tubing you can use a 1/2" gourmet from ace hardware. They are for 1/16th hole and it does a great job and looks finished. On project extra who cut the bulldog on Mike's Plane?
Thank you
Jim
If you need pic's let me know
My vision came out 15lb 12 oz.

FLIGHT REPORT!

Maidened my Vision today... WOOOOOOHOOOOOO! What an awesome plane... very much like the DV. Here's my report:

First off, let me say this was my first DA engine and I couldn't be happier. First flight only took 3 choke-on flips and 4-5 choke-off flips. Second flight only took ONE FLIP with NO CHOKE. Sweet. It ran great, getting 7150 rpms on an MSC 22*8 prop. Vertical climbs are like a rocket, even at my 16.7 pound AUW. Never faltered, never died, even on landings (no carb mod).

Now to the plane. First flight was a knee-knocking nerve fest (for no apparent reason) as I shook the ghosts from last years crash out of my mind. I was worried about nothing, this plane flies so easy it's obscene. Very stable, like it's on rails. Anyhow, first thing I noticed was ya can't taxi with rudder on low rates (Tailwheel doesn't turn enough). Flipped to high rates and it was fine.

Next, upon takeoff, it felt noseheavy and wanted to sink. It took about 4-5 clicks of up-trim to level her out. Next was about 1 or 2 clicks of right aileron and she was now on rails. First flight was uneventful as I didn't want to push it too hard until I got used to it and had confidence in the engine. First landing was easier than a trainer.

Second Flight. Now I was getting more comfortable, maybe too much Got a little wild with a high speed snap-roll doing a pass about 100ft over the runway and ended up inverted at 20 feet over the bean field with crap running donw my leg! I hammered elevator and pointed her up and all was OK... close call. Any other plane and I would have lost it. This plane can take as much elevator as you want to throw at it without snapping at all. Point it where you want to go and she cooperates.

I quickly found myself doing high-speed walls without a hint of a snap. Speaking of snaps, man, this thing can crank out the most beautiful snaps you ever saw when you want to. I found that I needed high rate rudder for knife edge, which had some coupling (pulled to the canopy a little). I'll mix that out next time.

I actually did my first ever "slow roll" today too! High speed, one roll that lasted the full length of our flying field! [8D] I only got two flights in cause a storm started moving in and it got too black to see. Anyhow, a couple more snap rolls and wingtip spins later, and I brought her in to load up in the truck.

Now, what did I learn besides this is an awesome plane? Right Thrust. Yes, it definitely needs more. I only notice it in a hover, where it will pull hard to the left. It doesn't torque roll excessively, just pulls left. Any speed on an upline and this goes away... but in a static hover, you are fighting with lots of right rudder input.

Secondly, the manual calls for a CG of 3.5 inches from the LE of the wingtip. I'm balanced at 4 inches and it still feels noseheavy. The nose wants to sink both when upright and inverted. I think that's also affecting the nose falling in a hover. With all the mods I did, I came up quite tailheavy, so I added a LOT of lead to the nose. My 16 pound plane turned into a 16.75 pounder with all that lead in the nose. I'm going to start removing it in 1-2 ounce increments and test it until it gets out of hand. I think I can easily remove 2 ounces, maybe 4-5 ounces and still not be noseheavy. That would get me back down to under 16.5 pounds.

Bottom line. Awesome plane, no snapping on high rate elevator, great speed envelope, tons of power, extremely axial rolls... but needs right thrust and need to move the CG back a little.

Wow! My DA is only using about 6 ounces per 10 minutes of flight. My 16 ounce tank would easily give me 20 minutes and have some left over. I never fly more than about 8-10 minutes which is only using about 1/4 of a 16 ounce tank. It's gonna take forever to break this engine in at that rate!

Cheers,

Tom

JZer.
Tell them the rest Jimmy!! We bashed the plane over the winter, tried to do everything we could to keep it under or just at 16 pounds. With the help of Gene @ Troybuilt, it finished out at 15lbs 12oz. Thats with 1-1/2" cut off of the nose, carbon fiber landing gear, wing tube and Li-ions for power, duals that is. So we could have saved a little more if we had used a stock DA muffler instead of the pitts and another ounce or two if we chose not to run redundant batteries. But Jim had a great day flying and it looked really light flying in some decent wind. Now that he pretty much has it trimmed out its about time to wring it out. Next time we need to take more than one gallon of fuel with us, used it all up on trim flights and check and double checks.

Angus,
That sounds a little rich alright, we were getting about 15 minutes out of the DA on a 20 ounce tank, with a few to spare for aborted landings. What prop are you running and what RPM does it show?

Overall its a great flying plane, Jim will have to give you a real report when he gets it back out next weekend.

Bashedit,

Ive still to tach it out but its swinging a Menz S 22X8. Id say that prop is really a bit small for the ZDZ as it really unloads in the air and the tips are beginning to sing. I was just going to stick with it meantime though as there is not much ground clearance and the next size up, sticking to 8 inch pitch, is the 24X8 in the Menz range. Its only had 15 tanks through it but I will probably start to lean it out a touch to see how it goes.

Aye totally!!

Angus

Angus,
I noticed when balancing a bunch of props, mine and a few friends, had about a dozen and started comparing, that the Menz is sort of a cheater. The 24x8 was really a 23-1/2x8, but the MSC's, Mezlik's, BME, NX and Zingers are all the same length as stated. May be part of it, take a look at your plug and see if its black, should be tan if mixture is correct. Can you see the tank when filling to be sure its full? I don't think I'd feel comfortable without getting at least 12 minutes to a tank. These fly so nice its easy to lose track of time!!

I have yet to start the build on my but over the weekend at the field I heard some disturbing news in relation to the wing tube folding on this plane, has this issue been address in this thread as of yet? Has anyone heard of this or had it happen to them yet? And has Chip Hyde found a soluation to this yet?

Thanks
Blackie

I have never heard of this before. I doubt Chip plans to do anything if it's a single occurence... until it happens more than once? Hard to tell what might have caused it, but so far mine has held up

Tom

I have seen it, due to full throttle walls. Answer is Carbon Tube to fix it.

this sucks, I have been waiting on DA to get my engine back, its now on its way, but we have had over two weeks of sunny flying weather here. Ugh. Its been killing me to go without my engine, but I decided to send it back for the new mods, but man that UPS truck cant get here fast enough.

Full throttle walls eh. Beastly.

Measured my prop. Its a good 21 3/4 inch so not far away from the stated diameter. Anyone tried the Chip Hyde 22X8 wooden prop? Also checked my main needle setting compared to what the manufacturer says and its in the right area so I dont know why its burning so much fuel. Will still lean it out a bit.

How long do these petrol engines take to run in by the way?

Angus

My bud has one of the CHP props on his DV, seems to work just as good as a Menz. Hard to tell any huge difference. I got an NX prop to try on mine once I am back in the saddle.

Angus B.... I've been using the MSC prop for a year, like it alot. Use one of Chips new woodies on my DV (22x8) and I'm going to Buy three more of the same from Chip. I think it is a better prop for 3D than the MSC. I picked up about 300 rpm with the CHP prop. If you don't have Chips " Quite Pipe" yet I'd highly recommend it also. I think it adds power and performance. And it is Quite. Good luck with your choice.
greg

Thanks for the heads up... that doesn't surprise me. A full throttle wall is an unbelievable strain on any airframe, I don't consider that to be a "fault"... just a normal limitation. I'll be sure to keep my walls slowed down... or get a CF tube

Tom

I talked to Chip at Toledo about replacing the tube with a CF tube. He said no need. The weight diff was about an ounce and that the CF tube broke and the stock tube bent with the same amount of pressure.

YNOT

Good point on the tube. I just figure I will not press my luck with full throttle ones in any event.

From what I understood a CF tube for this plane was not yet available, after reading some of the response's it appears there are. It would also appear that this incident of the tube bending has only happned once, I was led to believe it was a common issue.

Edit in
If there is a CF tube available for this place can someone please direct me to where I might get one at?

Thanks
Blackie

Blackie, try here for all the Vision CF upgrades etc: http://www.probuild-uk.co.uk/product...on_upgrade.php

Claim a 100g saving over the stock alu one.

Angus

Call Gene at Troybuiltmodels.com

He was suppose to get back to me on the carbon tubes, they should be in by now.

Yes, call Gene, that's where I got one. Make sure you measure your tube so you know how long it needs to be, I think the one I got was 31-3/8". They're pretty strong, I can't imagine breaking one!

The alu ones strong aswell. I use it for chin ups.

Angus

I need some for my Vision and my DV. this is going to hurt the wallet.

LOL LOL Appentarly you dont weigh but 20 lbs. here s apic of the vision 3-d after doing a wall.

Holy crap! That's too bad... don't think I'd be smilin' and laughin' if that were my Vision!

I think I'll keep my walls down to 1/2 throttle

Tom