here's the stats:
1. Hanger 9 Edge 540, straight from the kit, no modifications
2. Saito 1.80
3. 11lbs
4. Futaba radio, Hitec Digitals
5. Balanced at center range, control throws as per manual.

Here's the problem I would like one you experts to solve. This thing is a tip stalling fool. Full up elevator stalls it out at any speed and I have reduced the elevator throw to nothing to try to prevent it. Slow speed maneauvers are next to impossible. Landings are controlled crashes. If the speed isn't kept up, it tip stalls to the ground. It is a terrible plane to land.
All I've read about are the virtues of this design andquite frankly, I don't see it. My CAP far surpasses this in performance

Any advise would be appreciated
steve

Hi,
I have a limited experience which is similar to yours.

A friend of mine (another 30+ year modeler and pilot) bought one of these about a year ago and I put a test flight on it. It was equipped with a Moki 1.8. The controls were set up for non-3d travels and I didn't watch the CG being checked on the bench, but he demonstrated a ball park check in the field that I did witness. The airplane had a wing waggle on climbout , but otherwise flew pattern type maneuvers very well.
I ended up with a flame out at altitude, inverted at 1/2 throttle and simply needed to make a 180 degree turn while the airspeed was up. No big deal right.... I didn't even pull aggressively and the airplane snapped. I immediately gave up the back pressure I was holding and even more gently concentrated on recovering level without a secondary stall. It snapped a different direction 3 times (total) and I managed to pancake the airplane with wings level and level flight attitude and the only damage apparent was a monokote tear and sprawled landing gear. Needless to say, it was sheer luck that I hit wings level. (or was it) The airplane was repaired to fly another day and on landing the wing collapsed downward.
I wasn't there to witness that, but the airplane needs a new wing. I had heard that the early runs of these airplanes had a wing structural problem. I've been flying and test flying all types of models for years (30+) and I've read alot of good about this airplane, but this was the worst tip stalling airplane that I have ever flown.
I can only believe that the set up, or the wing was the discrepancy. I would check both and pay alot of attention to: CG (check at the root near the fuselage), control travels, wing warp, and a washout check.... ) maybe you've done this thoroughly already and are satisfied....

Hope this helps....
Chris

Mine also seems to have a tendency to tip stall at slower speeds - especially on landing. Mine's a bit heavier - around 14lbs with a ZDZ 40.... figured the extra weight wasn't helping the tip-stall situation, but wow does it ever have vertical performance!

Anyway, I did a little experimenting that seems to be working out very well. What I did on mine was program in a 'landing mode' - actually used the "airbrake" program mix on my Futaba 9C. In this mode I've set both ailerons to go 'up' about 3/16", and the elevator to go 'down' just a tiny bit to offset the slight pitch-up tendency of raising both ailerons. Anyway, the theory is that this will effectively washout the wings..... seems to work. Lands just great now with no tip-stall! Still flying the rest of the flight in 'normal' mode, could try leaving the 'landing mode' on all of the time, I suppose.

Still continuing the experimentation, but so far so good.

BJH

I don't believe mine has ever tip stalled....In fact, when I stalled on a landing approach two months ago at five feet off the ground, the plane landed exactly on the belly....Didn't hit the wing until it had to balance after stopping on the runway (due to the landing gear no longer being in place...hehe)


I have a BME 44 in it, and am having a blast....(pun intended)

mines 12 lb and an absolute baby, i know of other 12lbers with the same comment.


I have 2 degrees down incidence on my horizontal stab, and the rest is all as it comes.


With full 3d rate and no spoilerons I've landed, as said above, stalled, and it didn't tip

It always drops the right wing first, so I tried to reflex the right aileron slightly with no effect.
To the best of my Robart incident meters, there is no warp in the wing.
I noticed last week end that the Edge would spin with aileron and elevator control only. Yes it was a stalled spin, it surprised me so much I repeted several times to verify. It was not a spiral.
I have about 30 flights on it now, but mt tets flight was almost identical to cd3217. My SAito died after just a few minutes of flight. I was high and over the end of the runway. The wind was about 12-15 mph. I decided to spiral down from where I was, which would put me right over the end of the runway. As soon as the edge came around into the wind, it snapped. I was able to recover from that ,but as soon as i grabbed some elevator , it snapped again. This time i was able to get it flat before it hit a recently plowed field. It took the landing gear and everything below the blue trim off the airplane.
Needles to say i am not happy with the Edge
steve

Yes (post # 6)

Yes its the h9 edge 120 size...if you look at some of the different posts you will see some guys are having a snap problem when at slower speeds..like slow landings and harrier..I believe that they have a twist in the wing...I have gotten most of that problem out of mine by lateral balence and seperate servos in the tail for the elevator...I only have 1 degree of twist in my wing i got an replacement wing and one panel has 2 degrees.so i sent it back havent recieved the new one yet.

my sugestion to you is lighten the plane up and lateral balance it move the elevator servos to the rear..Good luck...By the way I love this plane Im running the O.S 160 w/ mesjlix 18/8 and 18/6..the apc is ok but the carbonfiber prop is worth the 40 bucks..and its 1.5 oz lighter.
you can get them at desertaircraft.com

scott

try this post
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthrea...3034&forumid=57

I hate to break it to you guys..But i would bet you do have a twist in your wing or the lateral balance is incorrect...or both

Example..I have O.S. 160 and it took
1 3/4 oz on the left wing tip..Check it again

Scott

Possible..... I took the time to mount all my batteries on the left hand side of the fuz, balanced perfectly

I had this problem with my Gas powered Giles and what I did was move the CG rearward and the problem went away. It is slightly tail heavy, and it flys a lot slower that it did in the past. With the straight wing of the Edge, you should be able to land at a crawl.

Welsh3D,

What engine? What direction is it mounted

Scott

Welsh3D,

Why the 2 degs down..id love to know the reasoning...always willing to learn

Scott

question? 2 degree down in the stab will bring the wing into a higher angle and promote stall, won't it? This airplane should be zero/zero. I feel as others have said, that there is a warp or twist somewhere I haven't found. I'm going to check lateral trim again.

skerlock: i already have 12oz lead in the nose, moving the servos aft will require more lead. can't lighten it that way. I agree with your premiss, i feel it's too heavy, but there's not much there to eliminate to lighten it up.

you may not believe this but this plane does not fly good with the cg set at the recomended spot. MOVE the cg back and that baby will fly like a dream. my first flight on my edge was a horror. lickily my moki never faulted or this plane wood of been balsa dust also!!!! i don't know why with the cg back it flies better but wow what a differnece. i think that since the horizontal stabilezer is symetrical you have to load it more. i dont know maybe that is rubbish. but if you'll move your cg back around 6 to 7 inches you'll be impressed with the flight charactreistics of this plane. the tip stall will leave and you'll never see it again mine did.

let us know what you do i real curious to as of this this fixes all the edges and that the book is wrong on the cg!

Chad

thanks for the input

Steve Percifiel, 12 oz... Wow....What is the weight diff between the os 160 and the saito you are running.. I had 4.0 oz in the tail before i moved 4.0 oz of servos back to replace it...Im shocked..I have my battery zip-tied to the foreward wing mount block moved my rudder servo under the rear wing mount block..and my tank is as far back as it will go....my C.G. is at the manufactures rear most position I went 1/4 inch further back and it was so pitch sensitive..THAT OTHER GUYS RULER MUST BE OFF....THERES NO WAY THAT PLANE WILL FLY AT 6-7 INCHES FROM THE LEADING EDGE..LOL

Scott

SKERLOCK: My Saito has to be heavier than your 1.60, which makes even less sense with all the weight i've added. I'm going back to basics and redo all the balances. I've go to be missing something, i know no 2 will be identical, but that's too much difference. MIne is 100% stock, so I've not done anything to add tail weight. I'll remeasure everything and see what happens
steve

When I had a saito on my Edge, it balanced in the forward end of the recommended range without extra weight, with two elevator servos in the cockpit area....

And flew just fine....

I then decided to go nuts and replace the saito 180 with a BME 44....LOL

Mine flew just like yours, until I sold it and the guy that bought it crashed it the first flight.

Steve Percifiel: I rember there was that 1/4 " spacer between the fire wall I had to use acording to the instructions..Did you use it? It might help are you sure you placed the thrust plate (the thing the prop tightens against.cant think of the name) the proper distance from the fire wall.

Scott

I have worked theses problems out of my plane it is workable

Scott

i told you all would'nt believe me ! but if you think about this plane has a symetrical tail. if you load the tail you unload the wing in turn eliminating the tip stall. and yes the plane will fly with the cg back even further. i fly 3d and found the way i set my cg is start out with manafactures recomended setting and move it back until that bad boy porpus on landing and then remove just a little tail wieght . yea hah that will make hovering a breeze! harries less harry and so on and so forth. Damn now you made made give up a secret.
Chad

SKERLOCK: I didn't need the spacer to get the prop washer at the spedified distance.It might be wise to use it or a thicker one to move the engine forward and then fill the spinner gap with another spacer. Could eliminate some weight that way.

The Hangar 9 is an absolute beauty to fly. With correctly set rates on elevator (non 3D) I can pull unlimited vertical from takeoff.
Elevator servos on the bay, rudder servo on the bay, battery above the fuel tank(24oz), engine saito 180 with pitts muffler.
I fixed the old wings, play it a little gently, still have the new wings, will use them once/if I get the decals.
cg : about 5" from the leading edge.
Had it for about 18months. simply love it, what else can I say.
Ah, no additional weight added. Weight is 12lbs.