bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Thanks Bob. That's lighter than the Fuji and more power. Now to call Brison and get it ordered.

Can someone weigh the Fuji with everything but the battery. I beleive he weight they give is engine only

drbebob

Hey Bob --- We are saying basically the same thing. I said that GP sorta copped out when they put a 1.6 on the plane, called it "the Ultimate 1.6" and then put 1.6 size gear on it. All along they must have known that it is a 50cc high performance bipe. I'm just saying that it is still a wonderful value and hard for me to complain about. The folks who want to put a 1.6 on it and putt around the field doing fast rolls would be complaining if they had heavier gear that they don't need. Hey, they are using the recommended motor. I'm sure GP looked at all this and decided on their marketing strategy knowing full we die hard aerobatics guys would go ahead with aftermarket parts to bring it up to our needs.
BTW, Maudib that gear you showed us looks great. Time to start a write-in campaign to get gear for the Ultimate.

Bob

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Possible the same gear. no pic though. Hopefully I'll hear back from them prettyy quickly

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

maudib - my collected spreadsheet weight is 1.5oz higher for the parts you listed... would you mind double-checking the bare ignition weight? And the standoffs, if you can?

I'm trying to make my spreadsheet "facts" and not speculations of manufacturers.
Thanks for any help.

I would love to have the bit-by-bit weight breakdown of the Fuji, also, if anyone has that.
And the 3W.... if anyone knows...

thevirginian

O.K. guys, bear with me. I don't even have my Ulti yet. Though, I received my Fuji today(must say I'm impressed). Give me a chance to check and test my gear first and if I see a potential problem with it upfront I will start my new company: "The "Ultimate Landing Gear Company". Seriously now, I should get my Ulti somewhat early December and I will check right away. Bubbagates, if you want, we could get in touch via e-mail and if you like send me your bad gear (both pieces). If I can use both parts I could possibly start with the molds since two are required and the molds are the most time consuming part of the project. How long it'll take me before the first set of legs will come out I don't know yet. Once the molds are done the rest is rather easy. Meantime let's keep the information flow going.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

thevirginian,

It seems that allot of us are interested in the gear and if you can get it pretty quickly I'll bet ou'll make out fairly well

Are you able to weigh your Fuji. I would but mines installed. Bob wants the weights for his spreadsheet and I'm curious to see how much weight I'm gonna lose by going to the Brison 3.2

thevirginian

I will weigh mine tomorrow at the office on a "precise" postal scale. I'll let you know.
BTW, Bubbagates, I sent you an e-mail.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Got it and replied

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

My engine with washer, 4 prop bolts and plug is: 47.95oz

Ignition is exactly 4 oz

Standoffs with front screws to attach to engine are 2.75 oz

I don't have the stock standoffs though... 3" I believe... I had cutom ones made that are 1.75" but they are a little beefier than the stock. I also forgot the screws that hold the standoffs to teh engine. But accorsing to a buddy his 3" stock length standoffs are 2.8oz with screws...

Before I weighed the engine in a plastic bag and the ignition in one too... I removed them this time.

I weighed all the components seperately, then together and the sum of the individual items equal the total weight.

54.7 oz or 3 lbs 6.7 oz.

This does not include a muffler/bolts (DA Stock muffler/bolts) is 5.2 stack uncut

Or a battery... but unless you are comparing to glow... batteries cancel out.

Hope this helps with the spreadsheet (even if just a little)

Not sure what distance this plane needs, but the prop hub is approximately 3.75" to the back of the tabs. The manual states 7" from firewall to prop hub, so a person needs to stand the engine off with 3.25"... either custom, or using stock 3" standoffs and 1/4" aircraft ply washers.

The Brison 3.2 is approx. 5 3/8" from back to prop hub so you'll need 1 5/8" spacing made from something.

It's obvious that these two engines are really close in weight.

gdeezer

Guys,

I just discovered RCU last week and this thread is awesome. I have a GP Ulitimate that I hope to assemble in January while on vacation. AI bought a Fuji 43 and after looking at these posts I will put it on my GP 1/3 scale Pitts. I have a DA 50 on my Aeroworks Katana that I seriously thought about putting on the Ultimate. ( This negatives about the Katana are true, worst ARF I ever had and I don't fly 3D!) Instead I got froggy and bought a new BME 50 (The wife doesn't know yet!). I will put the BME on Ultimate. Does anyone have any pics or suggestions on how they mounted their BME 50? What mount works? The guys at chief sold me a Hangar 9 2 piece metal mount. I did some measuring and will be approx 1-1 1/4 inches short, which means I will need some sort of standoff.

The gear discusiion has me concerned. I went to the Supergear sit and I think I will order one. Their add is telling. I had 2 carbon fiber gears from Graphtech and they ended up like the picture.

Thanks in advance for any good advice.

iflywhenican

My Feedback: (1)

I used 1 1/2" standoffs with my Brison 3.2, that puts me at 6 3/4" to the front of the prop hub. I found nylon spacers at Lowe's that worked perfect for the setup. They are machined for 10-32 bolts.
I was afraid if I went further out to the prop hub that I would be nose-heavy, was the reason that I went with the figures. Turned out on the money for CG.

I went back and did some changing in my battery setup last night. I went with (2) 2500 MA 6 volt nimh's for the control and a 2500 nimh 4.8 volt for the ign. So now in the side view pic that I posted, there are three MPI switches. I fab'd a "ladder" and glued it in for 3 switches.

I will re-weigh again, because I know my total is more now. Just hope it ain't much.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

iflywhenican,

That's great info. I went to order the Brison last night and they did not answer the phone so I'll try to get to them sometime today. Those nylon spacers that you found, were they in those drawers in the isle when the nuts and bolts are?

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Some guys will say the GP nylon mounts are fine fr a BME 50... I personally don't like the idea...

The H9 Aluminum mounts are the "defacto" standard for BME mounting and if you are saying you aren't reaching the 7" then you'll need to cut some aircraft play spacers for underneath the H9 mounts.

Simply trace the pattern of the base on some 1/4" aircraft ply and cut just to the line so you have about a encil line thickness larger all the way around. You can drill a few small lightening holes in the center if you wish.

So in the end you'll have two bars of ply spacers, one for under each side.

The Supergear site lists a 30% gear which I believe is the Goldberg 30% gear and may not fit... it may also be one piece instead of two... Then again, it may fit the bill just right and need only a little fitting...

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Can someone weigh the spinner that is included? Base, cone and center screw in total?

And it's a 4" spinner?

iflywhenican

My Feedback: (1)

Yep, they sure are. They also have the 4-40 all thread rod in different length's.
You may have to order from Kangke in NY to get your engine. 1 (631) 274-3296

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Ordering form Kangke is even better. The last few times I've ordered from them I had it in 2 days.

I used the 4-40 rods (12 inch) to mount my Tru-Turn Ultimate spinner. I could not use the stock spinner as it required 3 ounces of weight to balance it, it was that far out.

The Tru-Turn spinner came with a 4.5inch bolt but it was about 1/2 inch too short with the Fuji spinner bolt so I mounted the back plate, prop, spinner bolt, screwed in the 4-40 rod, slid the spinner over it, threaded a nut on it, then cut the rod about 1/16th inch past the nut. I then took off the nut which cleaned up the threads for me then I put a drop of thick CA on the threads and threaded a nylon lock nut on the rod and tightened it down. Now I have a custom spinner bolt that is easy to remove and with the nylon lock nut does not look to bad.

I'll hit Lowes in the next few days and get the spacers. I have multiple lengths of 10/32 bolts so that's no problem

thevirginian

O.K. I weighted my Fuji with everything (muffler, bolts, ignintion, spark plug): it came out 3.7# which is still better what Fuji advertised on weight. That's not too bad. I believe this new motor, once broken in, will make a good powerhouse.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

OK,

Now I am really wondering about the weight of mine and the scales I used. [&:][X(]

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Guys, why don't we just weigh this plane after we have made all the mods and adjusts to it ?. I too am weight conscience [ especially my AUW just after the holiday season ! ] but in the end if were only talking one or two ounces....... would such a small amount really be critical. I did all I could on mine and came out to about sixteen and a half pounds. when I added the smoke system, it came up to a little over seventeen pounds. Not much can you do . Plus were looking at a possibly heavier new main gear when we get that resolved. Once all the "bugs" are worked out of this, we will have one swell flying plane ! [ woke up with no pains, feels GREAT !] MM.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Guys who don't have one yet may be interested in knowing what options they have before they order all this stuff...

There is always savings to be had:

I have a 4" white fiberglass spinner 3.65oz should save a couple from the stock
Use all 5945's to save another 1.5 oz
Using a 12 oz tank might save a little... maybe an oz
Use a 2 oz lighter engine
Selecting a lighter wood prop might save 1 oz (I have an MSC and BME 22x8... the BME is almost a full oz lighter)
Using Chip Hyde control horns instead of stock could easily save 2 oz...

It's not that big a deal really... but if a guy has the FujiIMVAC 43, then he's at the upper limit at 16 lbs and may be disappointed in the performance. So any weight savings is performance gained.

On a 50cc powered bird, you won't have any issues with that and so then no, saving 1/4 lb might no be worth the effort.

If these guys are coming in at 14.5 with the Fuji, it might be gotten to 14.25 or even 14lbs... and that's MUCH better than 16.5 lbs on a 43... and the wingloading would be about 15% better... that's a significant decrease...

Bottom line is if you can save just 1 oz in 8 areas of the plane... you dropped 1/2 lb. And in a 50cc size aircraft like this... it would be easy to do just watching what items you select/use.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Maudib and MM,

I could not agree more with both of you. I have yet to go on a fact finding tour to find out why I am way heavier that the others but I will find it. I'm holding off until I get the new landing gear so I can weigh the difference between the two, but on a known good scale

In any case, I'm am moving up to the 50CC Brison as soon as I decide what muffler (J&A or Bisson) to use. Noise limits are a factor at my field.

thevirginian

Bubbagates,
what scale have you been using? What was your weight on the Fuji? Can't be that much off. I am in between the numbers Fuji and Tower advertise. So I figure I maybe right on the money with my weighing. If you are scratching your head why and where you are heavier, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that is is mainly in the ARF itself. I noticed the same with my Funtana 90. Mine was built extremly light. I followed the entire thread in here where people argued about what motor and where it balances, etc. I came to believe there were up to almost 1.5 pounds difference in weight! I guess some of those Chinese Kids who build those ARFs use more some less glue on the joints. Then there is the choice of wood. Some balsa do weigh more than others. The same applies to plywood. I also believe that is another reason manufactures give us a fairly broad range of weight. Otherwise they could narrow it down to more realistic numbers. Just my opinion.

thevirginian

On a different note:
I plan on using six HS5624 on ailerons and elevators and one HS5645 for the rudder. What you guys think? Donalds-Hobby got them on sale in bulks of four.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

If you fly 3D, the 5645 will not be enough for the rudder alone. Strongly recommends at LEAST the 5945 and better yet the 5955... You could also use a JR 8611a or the Futaba 9152.

I'd also go with 5945's on the elevators as well.

The 5625's will be fine for the ailerons... fast too...


Think about it... a servo rated at 125 oz in, being pressured with 125 oz in is working at full capacity, drawing the greatest load and generating a high amount of heat... this is stressful on a servo.

Now take a 180 oz in servo and stress it to 125 oz in... it's only working 65% or so, drawing less current and generating less heat. Plus you gain tighter lash in the gears, faster response and even more torque for when you need it. If you upgrade to 5945's over the 5645's, you'll spend maybe $100 more.

Twist DOnald's arm... I'm sure he'll give you the 4X price since you are buyinf 4X 5625 servos too... well... maybe...

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I never did weigh the Fuji so I cannot say what it really is. The first scale I used was a $30 fish scale from Walmart and that's the one that showed 16.5 pounds. One of the others was a postal scale at the local UPS store, another was a doctors triple beam at the rehab center that I go to to visit my father at and the other one was a drive on pallet scale where a friend of mine works. All three scales came within an ounce of each other at 16 pounds. I hear ya about the Funtana90. I had the same thing because I had one from the first run that came with all the ribs broken in both wings and H9 werre out of stock for 4 months so I had to repair them.

I know my pilot figure weighs at least 3 to 4 ounces, I run dual Fromeco Li-ION 2400MaH batts but combined and according to the weight they say right on the packs they are 6.6 ounces (3.3 each). My little 10lb postal scale says the regulators/switches (Fromeco Super Regulated switches) come in at 4 ounce for both. I used the smart-fly optical kill switch which is 1 ounce, no choke servo My ignition battery can be changed out to a smaller one

I used the heavier Dubro servo arms for all the Hitechs and the really heavy APC 20X8 prop. I did replace the spinner as I did not like the amount of weight it needed. I do not have a weight on the Tru-Turn but it's a tad heavier since it's a full Ultimate spinner versus the standard spinner that comes with the plane.

I'm fairly convinced I have a plane that is using heavier wood but since there is only a very small handful of us using the Fuji then right now it's hard to say.

As I already mentioned, The Fuji pulls it along nicely but no where near what Dick said his would do. A 1/4 throttle level line then pull to vertical and then go to full throttle yields about a 100 - 150 foot climb until it really starts to slow down. Hi Alpha KE required all of the throttle to hold it there.

For those that are just popping in here, let me state again, this plane is a sweetie, mine appears to be heavy for whatever reason I have yet to find out. Most others, even with same weight 50Cc engines are coming in at least 1lb lighter if not more. I plan on keeping it for a very long time.