To all the 3D bashers - Why don't you quit putting people in categories. A bad unsafe pilot is a category. A guy flying 3D can be the best or worst pilot at the field. Why do you get on here and bash a flying style that can be either safe, enjoyable and challenging or can be dangerous, boring and ugly depending on the pilot?????

Also, did it ever occur to you that the guy hovering or torque rolling is doing it over and over so he can get better, not for everyone's entertainment? It gets annoying when a pilot does endless touch and go's but guess what? He's learning and at some point he'll move on to other stuff.

I was almost hit by electric foam zagis and foam park flyer jets 3 times this past year. Do I get on here and bash park flyers or zagi flyers? No. It's the bad/unsafe pilots behind them that were the problem.

The thread starter gets on a 3D forum and calls the flying style unsafe. I think it is BS to start sh** like this. Go to a different forum and start a thread about unsafe or inconsiderate flying because that is what you are really talking about.

don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message it is a message that is true and should be debated or it will get worce

there seems to be enough intrest in my opinioun to be on the 3rd page of this post

Ive read this thread, and here is my opinion.

First of all, the problem is NOT 3D flying. The problem is with model aviation in general. New pilots are getting involved in model aviation without proper training. This isnt their fault. It's OUR fault.

Many new pilots see 3D flying and want to try it. They've never dealt with planes before, dont understand the dangers, risks, and dont know how to fly, or even how to get started.

They decide to go get a plane. They dont go to a respectable knowledgable hobby shop, they go to one of those department store hobby shops with a guy behind the counter that doesnt know jack diddly about airplanes (or online) and buy a 3D plane, proceed out to the field, take off, and promptly plant it in the deck.

Then they go get a simulator. They practice and keep smacking them in on the sim until they finally figure out how to keep it airborne. Then they go get another 3D plane......

AND THERE IT IS. A new pilot out flying 3D at the field with no proper training. They dont understand the engine, they dont understand aerodynamics, they dont understand the nuances and flying charectoristics of their airplane, they dont understand stall charectoristics, because that **** simulator cant teach you that.

Suppose by some odd chance this new pilot actually has the foresight to get training. So he goes to the hobby shop once again because he doesnt know anything about the AMA or clubs or anything. The clown behind the counter sells him a trainer, and tells him about some guy he knows that flys that can teach him. Enter Clown number 2. This self-proclaimed expert (actually a self taught needle tweaking throttle junkie) takes him out to the field and teaches him to fly circuits with a .46 powered trainer at full throttle. Then the guy starts trying to hover a .46 trainer because after all thats "Why I got started flying models". Eventually he kinda figures it out and gets a big 3D plane.

We really need to start getting involved with new pilots. When I go to the hobby shops, and I see people looking at the airplanes Ill go right over and start talking to them. 10 times out of 10, they are new pilots wanting to get started flying. Its like an open invitation to help them learn before they go out and kill someone. I've gone so far as to help them select airplanes, and tell them when and where we meet, how to get started, and offer them training assistance for FREE. Ill do everything I can to help them out, and so will all the local guys here. We thrive on this.

If your teaching someone to fly, before you even get them off the ground, they should be taught about how planes fly. You've got to teach them the basics. Aerodynamics, Engine tuning, how the controls work, WHY the controls work. How to maintain an airplane, what kind of fuel to use. Once you get them airborne, they need to learn throttle control, how to fly level and not gain altitude or lose altitude ...even in the turns. They need to learn stall recovery. They need to learn how to detect a stall. They need to learn how wind affects the plane, how to fly in crosswinds, how to land, how to takeoff, how to keep the plane out over the field and not over the pits. Club safety rules, AMA safety rules... ONLY and I do mean ONLY after they've learned these things should you start teaching them aerobatics. And NOT 3D aerobatics. They need to learn the basic aerobatics first. Rolls, Loops, Stall turns, Snap rolls, Slow rolls.

Eventually with time, you can teach them 3D maneuvers. If you do this, you will have a pilot that is fully capable of flying 3D maneuvers 10 ft off the deck without unnecessary threat to himself or anyone else.

In my opinion it is just as safe to hover a 40% extra a ft off the deck as it is to fly a .46 trainer 5 miles up...so long as the pilot has proper training.

Like it or not. 3D flying is here to stay, and its only going to get bigger and more popular. Instead of btching about it, get off your butt and go help them learn the right way....or shut up.


No whining, no complaining....just go help them...THEY NEED YOUR HELP.

no whining that is what i have been saying unfotunintly a large percentage of the newcomers don't want to go through the full learning experance they want 3D NOW|||

well I was bored when I started this post I wanted to shake the tree to see what fell out I got a lot more than I thought I would in 1 day

Probably wouldn't have.

i've only been flying 7 months so i don't know.. when did 3d actually hit? and i don't care when some guy first hovered a plane in the 60s.. i mean when did it take over?

i have noticed that 3d can, (not that it always does by any means) attract more wild, macho individuals. before it hit, i would guess things were a bit more calm.

3D hasn't taken over. Nothing will take over. That's the wrong mindset to have about it, because that's where the bad blood comes from. Nobody needs to run down, or belittle, or fear somebody else because they have different tastes, or styles. The guy with the 3D profile isn't going to beat you up. He came out there for the exact same reason you did. And if he puts you in danger, beat HIM up.

I think you misinterpret things. The guy correcting your spelling was joking and so was I. I could care less if you could spell...
Then you talk about egos again and it is right after my post, again. And again, I hope you are not talking about me....I am a pretty modest fellow at the field.

Iam not going after any one personaly I do belive that we all have egos to a sertan extent I do fly 3D prety good what I don't do is any hovering or low rolling harrier's when the flightline is busy but i have found a lot of that happening and the attitude is I'm good don't worry about it or they just look at you like your crazey and just want to ruin there fun

Why don't you address the problem at your field then. The 3D flyers at my field are the more experienced flyers. You're not going to solve the problem at your field by bashing 3D flyers everywhere else. If your field has a problem, quit typing and start getting involved where you can have an impact. Have you brought this up at your club meetings or your field? What was the response?

As far as 3 pages of posts....every time a thread like this is started it happens. It's been beat like a dead horse over and over again. So what your thread did was stir the pot.

Why not go to the scale forum and ask why they can barely fly their trainer but they buy a scale warbird with a heavy wingloading and attempt to fly it? See, not all scale flyers do this but the ones who do are dangerous.....hence the problem again here is flying beyond their skill, not scale or 3D.

aviti

wedon't have a problem at my field because we use good flying edikit if you red the post I have stated that at giant scale events were people come from all over 3D flying has become a problem and beginers want to fly 3D before they have the nessary skills to do so safely

as for the scale guys i agree with you thanks for the idea;;;;

wow.... What a bunch of cry baby pee pants circle fliers seem to post here.

3D seems to upset the older fliers because they are threatened that thier old lady like sewing circle or flightclub politics might be in jeapordy if a style of flying takes over that they don't like, or hate because they lack the ability to do it or learn how to.

I do understand some of the concerns, especially those trying to 3D that can barely land a trainer. but you know what? if they are flying dangerous at your club, THAT IS YOUR OWN FAULT FOR LETTING THEM!

My flying club isn't very 3D friendly, and until i got good enough to show them what can be done with 3D, they didn't allow me to do it low or near the runway. I would go to the field on offdays by myself and learn 3D on the deck. Now even some of the circle fliers enjoy watching 3D...

Instead of crying about it, embrace 3D and the fact that it is here to stay, and make it safe at your club.

Wrong!

RIGHT!

Cry baby, pee pants circle fliers? Wow! You REALLY told them. Let that be a lesson to you, you cry baby, pee pants circle fliers!

I feel like I've stumbled into a pre-teen chat I bet the next person to disagree with something gets called a butt-wipe.

Circle fliers, 3D fliers who cares? I think we all fly for one reason, because it's fun. I'm big into 3D, anymore that's all I do, but if someone wants to fly in a circle for 10 minutes then what's it too me? As long as someone is flying safe I really don't care what they do. For me and a lot of other pilots this sport is about getting your mind off your job etc..., not about holding a perfect hover or figure 8. I think most agree that dangerous pilots come from a person by person basis and not a flying style. If someone is flying in a dangerous manner tell them so! In a nice way of course. If they don't care and they don't listen then start to get nasty to the point of asking them to not come back. When it comes to dangerous pilots don't just talk about it when they're gone, do something about it, call them on it!

OK,
I only read a few of the responces.
To say you HATE something is a bit extreme, don't you think?

I understand where you are coming from. Having only flown for a couple of years 1 learning , 1 3D, I have witnessed some hap-hazard flying. Mind you not all was performed by 3D "pilots". I have seen everything from reckless helis' , trainers, and, experienced scale pilots, along with a few 3D pilots.

Now,
I've been known to get it down on the deck and have a mishap, and have witnessed some mishaps on video, performed by more experienced pilots than I.

Don't get me wrong , anyone learning 3D would benifit from some foamy and flight sim stick time , but not everyone can afford electric or sim programs.

If you happen to see someone in a bad situation maybe, just maybe, you could offer up an area to practice. Or see if someone could loan a sim to such a person.

I am a Profile Brotherhood member and have yet to meet someone who flys or wants to fly 3D intentionally want to cause harm to anyone at any time. Remember, you once wanted to fly well and had many accidents learning to do so. Just because someone wants to fly 3D out of the gate doesn't mean you exile that person from flying . It just means that person needs a little help from veteran fliers such as yourself and any other pilots who may want this great hobby to grow.

I hope this doesn't start a big bashing event as others have had happen here. Good Luck and keep'em interested.

I think safety can be a problem no matter how you fly.

3D flyers make me feel unsafe when they hover close to me when I am flying. Sometimes small electrics are in this category as well.

"Pattern" flyers make feel unsafe when they fly fast & low when I am flying.

Other flyers try to push a bad situation when they should just dump the plane.

Some people are not careful when they set up their planes and create a hazard for those in the pit area.

I prefer IMAC,FAI,Patten,Scale Aero stuff I suppose because that is what I am good at. I find the 3D stuff fun to watch (sometimes) but find it very distracting when trying to accomplish a nice rolling circle with a 3D guy in a hover 5 feet from the pilots box. I agree there should be room in this hobby for everyone and I NEVER voice complaint about the 3D guys.

Hello Bob Laine, I used to fly against you in the pattern wars when I lived in Augusta,Ga.

Hello Mu2Driver, I worked for Mitsubishi for a numbers of years as a Field Service Rep.

Frank Baity
AMA 38026

Fbaity, Hello to you. Hope everythings going great with you these days. Nice to see you on the threads. Where are you living at now?

Bob,

I now live in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Frank

Ga Lee get a life losers....

I'm sick of this 3D is Junk and unsafe stuff.

Yesterday a little girl was almost hit by a WWII Bi-Plane that some Joe was flying. He put in the wrong input on a flyby! Now I really dubt he was 3D'ing

I know I'm gonna get flamed an all

Congrats to the cough cough websites cough cough that don't allow this B/S


Just for you, next time I'm hovering my plane I'm gonna grab the rudder with my hand and dance around.


Now yall can start fussing me...... I'll be outside flying.

Peace OUT!!!!! Winers

Oh yea and yall you guys that are taking up for 3D. Way-To-GO!!!




I am not saying that your stupid or a loser if you fly warbirds. I'm just saying it would be nice to stop bashing 3D and all live in harmony. Joe-Nall is great with that.

This whole issue revolves around the guys at your field...If it is a fly-in, rules and regulations pertaining to this should be posted...If you are flying with 5 other planes in the air, and you bring it down on the deck, you're the idiot, and they have the rigth to tell you that....But if you're up alone, adn someone comes up...then they're the idiot.....

Another curiosity question.....Where is the line drawn? How about when I do a very low, fast flyby? What if its inverted? There's a first for everything...Those who are no good at flying 3D will wreck all their planes and go home....Those who take a little risk here and there, which should be kept in moderation, either have a hard time learning, or they are brave and will gain something from it...

What I hate about 3-D is the fact that it has doubled or even tripled the number of flyers at our field over the last couple of years. It really sucks that our membership is up because of it and that planes are flying off the shelves at the hobby shops. Heck I cant even get a YS 1.10 because they are constantly sold out. Ya 3-D is really been bad for the hobby. When I first started flying about eight years ago, I could go to the field with the retired circle flyers and get all the 3-D flying in I wanted. The Circle flyers used to dig how I would practice hovering and blenders and knife edge and what ever else I was trying to learn. But now our field is full of all kinds of flyers trying to learn how to fly 3-D, its just terrible. I had to start flying at a dry lake bed just so that I could hover by myself. Its too nerve wracking hovering next to others.