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3D flying.

Old 05-25-2006, 12:07 PM
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kzimmerman
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Default 3D flying.

Ok, this is supposed to be a forum about 3d flying right? So how come nobody talks about actually flying? We should get a list together of 3d manouvers, and how you learn them and apply them, for the novice 3d pilots (like me!)

What is the first 3d manouver that you attempt to do? I managed to hold a harrier for a little bit the other day, but experienced alot of wing rock. this is with a showtime 3d. What can I do to correct this? What are the steps that you go through to properly enter, maintain and exit a harrier? Experts, time to share your insights!
Old 05-25-2006, 06:43 PM
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Uncas
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Default RE: 3D flying.

K,

I agree, the forums are often more about the hardware... and mostly about building not performance.

As far as flying - I have started off with hovering and some inverted flat spins. For me, hovering has been really challenging. I am not good at harriers but I do know spoilerons really help.
Old 05-26-2006, 07:02 AM
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j.duncker
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Default RE: 3D flying.

Learn to prop hang.

Everything else comes from this IMHO.

Lots of info on set up around, then it is practice practice practice practice practice practice!
Old 05-26-2006, 07:28 AM
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McFlyboy
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Default RE: 3D flying.

Get a good shocky, a epp one if neccessary, then visit www.blaineaustin.com, www.teamflyingcirkus.com video page, and www.3drc.info manouvres section, and practise all those manouvres in the order that you feel you can accomplish them.

I started off with flat spins and hovering, then inverted flat spins, then HAKE(high alpha knife edge), walls and parachutes, then blenders, then whatever felt good at the time.

Where is the balance on your Showtime, further back sounds like a good idea, I just moved it back on my EF Edge and the harriers and hanging have got easier. Next time out I'll move it further and see if that helps more. Also, are you using full up ele to harrier? In the vids I've seen the showtime does a very nice at a not too high angle with only a little power on, I'll see if I can find the link.

EDIT: found it http://www.teamlawndart.com/Video/ShowTime2ndFlight.wmv

Getting into the harrier, slow the plane down by gently adding a little ele, and as the nose comes up adjust power to support the model in the nose high attitude. To maintain, I use rudder for turns, and aileron to hold the wing level, once the wing starts really rocking give it power and recover to height, before trying again. Exiting a stable hover is simply reduce the ele. and if need be add some power.

Hope that helps
Old 05-26-2006, 11:57 AM
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AeroDave
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Default RE: 3D flying.

Kz,
It seems there are so many websites with really good information about the moves and progressive instruction, that when someone asks about it they are simply given a link. That's a truly wonderful thing, but it has sort of ended the discussion, brainstorming, sharing of ideas and thats probably too bad. The harrier thing takes a lot of practice to get right. Some airplanes simply require you to hold up elevator, balance with power and watch. You steer with the rudder and keep the wings level, mostly in turns, with the ailerons. When I was at that stage I used to talk alot about planes that were good at harrier and those that weren't. Then I read something Kyle said about learning to harrier in G2 and how if you could do it on that sim it would be really easy with a real plane. So I spent a good bit of time figuring that out. For me, its kind of like torque rolling in that you have to learn to stay ahead of the airplane, anticipating rudder corrections, etc. Harrier is the same thing for me in controlling wing rock. You have to stay ahead of it and stay awake. Once I got a handle on this, i was amazed to find out most of my 3D plane would harrier just fine. So it wasn't the plane that was giving me problems, it was my technique
Old 05-26-2006, 12:10 PM
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kzimmerman
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Default RE: 3D flying.

Thanks guys,
How about a flat spin, how do you enter one of those? I've done regular spins, but not a flat spin. The guy that told me how to do it said to just bang the sticks into opposite corners up, after giving a little down elevator. The showtime spins okay, but I want to get a flat spin going. The balance point is about 1" back of where it recomends in the manual.

Kurt
Old 05-26-2006, 04:28 PM
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Barry Cazier
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Default RE: 3D flying.

Inverted flat spin....

Enter upright and high. Chop the throttle and give full down elevator and full left aileron and full right rudder. Wait, wait, wait....feed in a small amount of right aileron and about half throttle and maintain full down elevator and full right rudder. Wow...you're doing and inverted flat spin. If the plane is capable (the Showtime is not) you can feed in more throttle and a little less rudder and you have a rising flat spin. Coolest 3D maneuver ever. But you gotta have a UCD, Mayhem or maybe a profile to do it.

The key is feather the right aileron and advance the throttle and lessen the rudder all at the same time to make the spin pretty.

thanks
Barry

Old 05-27-2006, 08:37 AM
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Jack Hyde
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Default RE: 3D flying.

I enter a flat spin inverted, climbing steeply and at 1/2 throttle. Give it full rt rudder, then lots of down elevator (still neutral ailerons), then feed in right aileron until it flattens out. If I apply too much aileron too soon it flips out of the spin. Barry's method also works for me but I lose less altitude my way, not requiring the "wait for it, wait for it" part.
At our club flat spins are THE thing. One guy does spectacular invertad spins with a Cougar with oversized control surfaces. Nothing is better than my Burrito. It will flat spin upright also and climbs if I gas it..

For an upright flat spin, enter upright, climbing steeply , give it full left rudder, then a lot of up elevator, then feed in right aileron. It takes practice to get the timing right.
My UCD does rising inverted flat spins. I don't recall ever getting it to flat spin upright.
You can practice flat spins on a simulator. I use the Yak or Ultimate on APD and it works pretty much like real life, except most plane lose altiude faster on the sim.
Old 05-27-2006, 08:22 PM
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airborneSGT
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Default RE: 3D flying.

Checkout flyinggiants.com They have a cool ground school video series. Also www.downonthedeck.com another cool place.
Old 05-28-2006, 06:29 AM
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McFlyboy
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Default RE: 3D flying.

for some aircraft to upright flat spin, it can be a good idea to enter a regular spin first, then once spinning move the ailerons across and add some power. Most aircraft will inverted flat spin better than upright, and with a bit of juggling on the throttle and ailerons it can be a non-descending flat spin
Old 05-28-2006, 06:51 AM
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BlackB12
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Default RE: 3D flying.

I enter inverted flat spins with the up and over technique as I call it. While going vertical, chop the throttle and when it's almost slowed to a stop I add in full down and full right rudder, since mine flat spins inverted better to the right. This gets it into the spin almost immediately with my Goldberg Matrix. I then add a touch of power. My plane doesn't like ailerons in flat spins. So planes do.

Mike

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