I've seen plenty of pictures and videos of guys doing 3D. And, I have to admit, many of these guys are 10 times better tham me when it comes to low down huckin' on the deck. I don't have the guts to get lower than about 50'. Not yet.

So, these guys are good. But, I don't understand why so many guys are standing out on the runway, only a few feet from the airplane when the rudder is only 1 or 2 feet off the runway. It looks dangerous to me. REALLY dangerous.

I don't know if Chip Hyde was the first guy to do it. Remember in the 2002 TOC when he hovered and torqued his pink Ultimate down low and he walked in a circle around it. The crowd went nuts. Was he the first guy to do this? Maybe thats where it got started?

I'm not knocking anyone. I love doing 3D, and I hope that eventually I'll get good enough to feel comfortable only inches off the deck. But, I don't understand why I see so many people standing so close to the planes. I don't think I'll be standing right next to my planes when I'm on the deck like that. I'm still fairly cautious around these beasts that swing 22" and 24" meat grinders at 7000RPM.

Any comments?

it IS dangerous..... but somewhere along the line...people thought it was "cool"...

oh well

For me, hovering close to the ground is considerably easier because you take a lot of the wind out of play & in general the closer you are to it the easier it is to control. Plus if you screw up you just chop the throttle & let it drop with very little or no damage (on my profile anyway)
I'm still relatively new to 3D, but I will routinely stand a few feet away from my foamies while hovering & torque rolling them & maybe it's psychological but it just seems so much easier when I'm closer. (plus the prop wash keeps you cool on a hot day)

Now, for my glow planes I also hover them right down to the deck but I don't walk anywhere near as close to them because of the meat grinder effect.

I will still walk out, but I leave myself plenty of room for mistakes & wind gusts. The foamy would still hurt & can injure but I'm not near as worried about it as I am a big 4 stroke coming at me.

Now, the foamy I can understand. You might end up with a stitch or two if the thing gets you, but I doubt you'd get seriously injured.

But, these big gassers with 100cc engines or even a 50cc engines hovering in your face? It just looks a bit maddening to me. That can kill you.

I'm not a safety nut, or one of those guys who is jealous because someone else can huck better than me. There's always somebody better than you--no matter what it is in life. Only a few guys are really "the best". I just don't understand why a guy needs to be only a couple feet away from a big plane like this. Maybe some day, I'll be good enough to hover down low, and only then will I realize the "cool factor" in standing so close.

Is it easier to see what the plane is doing? Easier to anticipate? Easier to keep ahead of it?

I certainly agree about the big ones. I am putting together my first gasser & I will certainly be flying it low & hovering it low but I can guarantee you I won't be walking very close to it. Even if I were a rock star 3D pilot I could still get hurt badly with a hard gust of wind, freq interference, equipment malfunction etc... so I'll always keep a safe distance away.

As for being easier; I find being very close helps maintain a constant attitude throughout you're hover. When the plane is belly to you or away it's hard to tell if it's leaning away or towards you the farther you are away and when the wing is towards you it's harder to tell if it's falling left or right.

I'm not a safety nut either, but I would never do anything that I felt was unsafe. Even with my foamy it took me many many flights before I got to the point that I'd get close to it.
I've seen some video's of kid's laying on the ground video taping somebody hovering a 40% plane over them. Look cool, yeah. potentially deadly, yeah!
I'm 32 though, so I guess I'm a bit past the indestructible phase of my life.

I'm 34. I'm not indestructable anymore either.

Referring to props as meat grinders do no one any favors...you or 3d pilots...so cut it out!





Actually, believe it or not, at some point you will become more comfortable close in. There is no doubt, as for as I am concerned, I can see minute responses much better close up and low. Of course, if you are not absolutely comfortable hovering or doing any other maneuver, whether it is four point roll or a simple landing, you are doing something wrong. What many do not consider is that an aircraft on landing approach is much more dangerous because of the energy it has if it hits you. A Typical 3D plane has far less energy on impact while in stalled 3D mode.

Next time you are on the flight line take a moment and consider how comfortable the other pilot is while landing. Hmmm...he could get crossed up and go full throttle in an attempt to make a save...[X(] (BTW seen many close calls while pilots are landing! )By the time a 3D pilot makes it to the level he can consistently hover and tork close in he will be a lot less likely to make such of a bad judgment call. I rarely see anything that can be remotely construed as a close call while competent 3d pilots maneuver close in.

Just the way it is.

So, your simply saying that it's both a confidence factor, and a skill level?

Well, I hope to get my confidence up enough that some day I can hover down that low. But, I still don't think I'll be standing so cose.

I'm not saying people should quit doing it. It's kinda cool in a way, but I still think it's taking an unreasonable risk. If you want to take that risk, then it's America, and your free to do it.

I don't want to fight, or have an argument. I was just curious why so many guys are doing it so close. I wondered if there was an advantage--such as being able to react quicker to what the plane might be doing--because it's so close that you can see every angle, tilt and pitch forward or backward. From some of the responses, I guess that must be true.

I still don't have the nerve to go that low yet. Maybe by the end of the season or next season, if I fly a lot.

As someone who likes to catch his plane in a hover its all about attraction. I dont know what makes us do it. We see the plane there and we go towards the light I love to hover close enough to smell the glow fuel and sometimes I have to blink a few times to get the exhaust off my contacts. I have no idea why I do it but hovering a football field away from yourself just doesnt seem right. Guys that hover two mistakes high over the pattern and sustain it for less than a minute and then come on here saying they can hover and they are a 3D pro doesnt set well with me. Is it dangerous?? Sure. Will I stop doing it?? NO. Been tail touching for over 6 years now.

What's that about?
Calling them "meat grinders" don't do them justice. It pays to be cautious around props, even more so the bigger ones. NOT scared - just cautious.

Nobody's attacking 3D or any other flying, he just asked a question.

I like to stand close in also so I can see and anticipate better what the plane is doing. It's easy to miss small cues when you're too far away, like tuwood mentioned.

I personally do not mind tail touching and low high alpha manuevering, but I would much rather not see people touching their planes while doing these things. It is just a bad idea. WHEN something happens, it is going to be bad publicity for the hobby and then there will be more regulations and expenses due to higher AMA insurance rates.

Personally, I think we can do these manuevers safely & continue to have fun doing them, but keep a safe distance away. There was one comment made about simply throttling back and let the plane come down if there was some sort of issue arise. I feel comfortable saying that most of the giant scale guys WILL NOT do this with a 4 to 5 thousand dollar plane. They are more likely to throttle up to create more prop wash. If someone is standing close enough, this could become a serious problem in a hurry.

If you want t go out by yourself and be wreckless, then have at it. BUT when you have anyone else at the field, THEIR safety should come first.

I like to hover low, but I generally stay on the flightline and hover on the other side of the runway. It's our club rules and I am only talking about large stuff. With foamies under a pound, anything goes! I am not rich and I only have one GS plane right now, but if things got out of hand in a hover and I thought people might be in danger, I'd do everything in my power to stuff it before anyone got hurt.

Maybe some peopla are so good thats the only way they get the adrenaline rush that everyone comes to love with flying planes.



-Taylor-

Hovering on the deck a few feet away is really no different than any other RC flying we have been doing for years. First the loop, then the roll, then inverted flying and knife edge. Pretty soon the better flyers were doing these things right on the deck. It was once cool to see of you could scrape the rudder on the runway while making a low inverted pass. Our planes are better today allowing the 3D style of flying.

If we regulate this style of flying out of our hobby, so goes our best flyers. It's like asking a really good down hill skier to stay on the bunny slope. Like Taylor said, the better pilots are finding new ways to get their adrenaline rush.

Here's something that made me cringe a while back. There was a pretty new guy with a fancy glow heli at our field & he was standing about 5 feet away from it & hovering it in front of him. he kept pushing it the wrong way & having a rough time with it. I couldn't watch because I just knew something bad was going to happen.

So maybe it's somewhat equivalent to a heli pilot standing near his hovering heli except any newbie heli pilot can hover a heli but it takes a decent amount of skill for a 3D pilot to hover next to him so I don't worry near as much.

I AGREE 100%
[8D]...could not have said it any better...[8D]

So right! It amazes me that everyone doesn't make similar comparisons so that a true understanding will be the norm.

If you truly believe this, and if you convince others to agree, then we are in serious trouble. Not trying to pick a fight, but 3D flying is not the same thing. Most 3D manuevers are a stalled condition, so you are not really flying. It is not more than grossly over powering a plane and manipulating it. You could do the same thing to a 2x4, put control surfaces on it and an engine big enough to do it and I guarantee you it could hover.

FLYING an airplane means that the plane has enough momentum that if you were to completely chop the throttle it would not just fall out of the sky. An inverted pass over the runway low enough to bump the rudder might cause the plane to crash, but in the same direction as it was travelling. A hover over the runway low enough to bump the rudder will cause the plane to fall in the direction of it's CG if more power is not applied, here's the important part, WHICH COULD BE ANY DIRECTION. Obviously we know that this can be done successfully, but it is dangerous. We need to maintain a level of safety......we need to keep our distance

Don't get me wrong, I love to 3D, but we NEED to keep it safe.

I disagree with this.

The problem with this assumption is that the pilot hovering down low and near is being reckless. The fact is, that he/she is probably just good, and most likely far safer and less reckless than any of the new pilots, and most of the very occasional pilots trying some new aerobatic maneuver like a roll or flying inverted. Think about all the crashes you have seen out at the field that just missed somebody or hit somebody's car. I bet it wasn't the hovering pilot. Yes, hovering looks scary and is only done by the best pilots, but I wonder, is that pilot really less safe than anyone else out at the field?

Using this credo, new pilots & old guys loosing their sight & reflexes should not be allowed to fly at any fly in, or when others are at the field.

Wings.....


The very first XFC, Darren Eaton was flying a 35% Ohio Models EDGE. Flying a low harrier manuever, he got low enough he bumped the left elevator counter balance on the ground and BROKE IT OFF! Obviously he hit it HARDER THAN HE INTENDED. Instead of continueing his flight, he quickly landed. Checked the servo out to make sure it was ok, GLUED THE COUNTER BALANCE BACK TOGETHER and flew it the next round. THIS is what I am talking about. He obviously is a good pilot or else he would not have been invited to fly at the XFC. He was obviously responsible enough to know that he had to get the plane out of the air after a mishap. He obviously was smart enough to know that the servo should be examined before flying it again.......more importantaly, while flying 3d manuevers, HE DID IT SAFELY.

This is all that I am saying. I am not saying that the pilots doing these things are reckless. Things happen. When they do, how safe you are being will be the difference between a mishap and what could be a huge loss

I disagree with your statement:

I disagree with this.

The problem with this assumption is that the pilot hovering down low and near is being reckless.

I HOVER inches off the runway all the time but I will not touch
my plane or let others near it at the time...

it feels good. thats why people do it.

when i hover low, or walk on the field, i am out of the way of anyone else flying. i walk the whole way to the end of the flightline. if i want to walk out i make sure no one else is flying at the time. i don't want to get hit by a low pass. i have crashed my funtana while 1 foot off the deck. i lost the groove and it started getting away from me. the first INSTINCTIVE reaction was to point it away from every other human there. and since it was instinctive, it went into play instantly. after that, i was trying to save it. it ended up a harrier landing that ripped the gear out. there was no more danger to the people at the feild than when anyone else flew in circles and landed.

now i am almost finished with my first big plane, 50cc. whenever the feel gets right, i will have it down low also. but with the feel to hover it safely is also the feel of being able to save it safely. there is no good way to say if a pilot is qualified to do this stuff barring an extensive one-on-one program to see the pilots ability and that his aircraft is safe. i sure hope that feilds dont try to ban this stuff. whenever i do it, other peoples safety is on my mind, because i LOVE TO FLY!

and it is a much more connected feel when you are 3 feet away. i feel my reactions become the most instinctive when it's close. and the engine sounds great.

I think some walk out onto the runway close to there plane because they think it looks cool and they are defying danger or death. Yeah okay. You want to feel some danger, run across the freeway during rush hour. Just because a couple of guys that get paid to fly someones airplanes does it doesnt make it right or safe. Just stupid. Yeah I know and all you guys that can hover just like the pros, just remember those guys dont pay for any of there gear. So when they dump its no big deal. So go right ahead and tap your rudder on the ground while hovering. Just dont do it while Im on the flightline. Or better yet why dont you just hover your big gasser in your back yard like that dumb___ did on the video with all those people in the pool. That was real cool. He had to be the best pilot ever because he could hover that big gasser over thoses peoples heads. Im sure all the manufaturers were rushing to give him one of their planes for him to fly. Oh well happy hucking.

I do it just because. It is easier to do some down on the deck stuff nice and low and close to the plane. I think most people who are that comfortable doing those things with their planes have a lot of stick time with them and know how they will react. If all else fails there is the kill switch. Lets see if I have the choice between loosing a couple grand or more or being dead/injured. Not really a choice because no matter how cool the plane is, its a toy.

Why?
Simple answer:

It makes for better pictures.