Hey guys, I have a H9 33% Cap 232 that is giving me a hell of a time to torque roll. I have tried everything from moving the CG aft (as best as I can...will explain later), to expo, increasing throw, etc. I think the problem is the engine weight. I have a 3w100 (heavier version) that has great power, but the plane just refuses to stay in the hover a turn or two. I have to fight it the whole time. There is no "sweet spot". I think that with that heavy mass of engine up front, there is not enough control authority to maintain the manuver. I have been practicing this since June, so I feel confident in my abilities. I can TR all day on G2, but I know that sims are a different ball game. I am running JR 4721's on all surfaces (120 oz), and a 3w 26x10. I am going to try a Menzjlik 28 x10 as a final resort. Back to the CG problem, I have moved my batteries back as far as possible (including smoke battery), and the CG is still at the forward limit. There is no leeway with the heavy 100 up front. I felt that if I put the new light 100 up front, this should allow me to move the CG back a bit and maybe that will help. I believe the new motor is about 1.5 pounds lighter. By the way, flying weight is 28 lbs.(smoke,nicads,) Any suggestions would be appreciated. I know practice, practice practice, but I honestly think this heavy engine is my problem.

Pull the smoke system, which i assume is up front. This will lighten the plane. You can put it back in later when you get you TR problem figured. Dont try a Mejzlik for hovering. It will work, but those props are designed for IMAC. Stick with the 3W prop, but try a 27x10. I think that the ultimate solution is aft CG, and less weight. How much control throw do you have?? you should have at least 45 degrees of throw.

I have 45 degrees on the elevators, 60 on the rudders. I have noticed most pics of the H9 Cap TR'in in a slight tilt towards the Canopy. This doesn't seem to work on mine. Like I said, I can roll it once or twice, but I am really working hard on the controls. The nose always wants to fall to either canopy or belly, doesn't matter. I've reduced the expo, and still had to really stay on the inputs. I know most guys who TR this plane are using DA 100's or the lighter 3w, so that is why I was leaning towards getting the lighter engine. (1.5 lb weight reduction is huge). i'll try pulling the smoke. I have the pump set up right under the tanks on the CG, and the battery is in back. I also have some room on the elevator horns to increase the throw, I think I'll try that too.. I estimate that I might get 55-60. Thanks for your help, any more suggestions would be great.

Do you have right thrust in the engine? I cant TR a plane with no right thrust...

There is 2.5 deg right built into the firewall. THanks

The G2 not the same as a cap, find someone that knows how to TR a Cap let them fly it see whats wrong. Might save you alot of work for nothing.

My pet peeve after setting up the plane is the throttle curve. By that I mean that when I move the stick one click I want to hear a change in engine rpm of at least a couple of hundred. This allows me to fine tune the harrier, hover and T/R for different conditions. From profile to 40%, the wind usually dictates what's needed in those maneuvers for me. Can you hold it steady in a hover without moving or pulsing the throttle? If you're really working hard my first impression is that you may be chasin the throttle. I like to move the throttle as little as possible to keep the other sticks under control. JR and Futaba handle the solutions to the curve differently. I have both the 9ZAPS and the 10X and work it out on both, no problem.
Anyway, just my views and they work for me.
Happy Holidays_bob

klbass

I would tend to agree with 3dbatixkid, in that you need the C of G to be well aft. If the throws are on 3d rates then this should be the solution. All my planes that can TR do so with about 5 degrees of tilt towards the canopy too. I assume the model is balanced laterally too, and not right wing heavy? Good Luck

Hey Klbass
Where Is your CG now? I have moved mine back to 6" from LE of wing tip. I am using a DA100/27x10 3W prop and It Is easy to hover. I don't think the weight of your engine is the probem though, the 3W 100 Is a strong engine and should pull the snot out of that plane! what size (length) arms are you using on your servos? I do enjoy this plane.

Doug

Hey STomper, I am sure my CG is the issue which is related to the 3w. Right now with the smoke removed, batteries as far aft as possible, I am at 4 3/4. That is why I must get the lighter engine. That 7 lbs up front will not allow the CG I need. I could ad weight to the tail, but I don't want to do that. Some addtional items that I found, are my tires. They are C.B.Tatone's which Tower says they are 5.3 ounces each. So I'll be trading those out. I am considering a pair of CF landing gear also. Elevator arms are 1 inch Hanger9's and H9 11/4 on the rudder. I noticed that the Cap on the ************* website was at a CG of 5.5. Right now there is no way I can get that CG with the engine weight. I am sure the 5.8 lb 3w will help out tremendously. Thanks for the CG info. That gives me something to go by.

Sorry about that moderator. Forgot to not mention that website.

Heres another idea. Make sure that you are running a wood prop, and also take the spinnner off. That way you are doin anything you can to get the CG back. Heck, add weight to the tail, and see if it fixes it. You can always take the weight off.

I'm flying a 1/4 scale cap 232 at 5.75" back , so it looks like you are quite nose heavy

OK guys thanks for all the suggestions. I have pulled the smoke, pulled the spinner, pulled the wheel pants, and traded my tires for some Dave Brown Lites. That dropped the weight by 26 oz. Now my CG is at 5.5 from wing tip L.E. I added 1 oz of weight to the tail. I'll start from here and let you know how it flys.

Hey all the suggestions worked! The plane hovers much better. THanks for all the help!.

Hanger 9 designed that plane around the GT80 which comes in around the same weight of your 3W. Just keep playing with the CG.

Oops.........looks like I should have read through the whole post. You seem to have gotten it figured out.

Have fun...........Mark

i used to have problems with my 39% edge. the first thing you have to do is get the plane in the right attitude. The plane will look like it is going to fall over on it's back but this is the correct position. you will have to keep it there to keep the tork roll going. The 26x10 prop is the one to stick with. The 28in prop will only make things worse.

Should have read all the post. Looks like you got it figured out.

I'd just like to say a few things here to anyone else who might be having a problem.

Try knife edge flight, and mix in appropriate elevator to track in knife edge good. This will help in torque rolls when you input rudder.
Practice
As mentioned, if you are looking at 3D (including torque rolling) you must have an aft CG, it will make things a LOT easier.
Practice
3W props are Mejzlik props that 3W has bought and applied their own decals to (as is my understanding). But prop choice is a matter of personal preference.
Practice
One quick hint, if you notice you start to fall out of a torque roll, you may have blanked out the tail. How many times have you started to fall out of a T.R. with full elevator and little rudder authority? Airflow coming off the elevators at their extreme deflection makes the rudder useless. Perhaps try easing up on the elevator just a bit at the onset of a fall out. Easier said than done though when you're contesting P.I.O.