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RE: Showtime
:)Sounds interesting, an electric Showtime. What was you weight ready to fly?
Also, I posted a review on the Showtime vs. the Yak vs. the Mayhem. I started another thread because I felt like there would be some real forceful comments and didn't want to cloud up a perfectly good thread. But I think someone needs to start reviews that are meaningful to people looking to compare the planes and purchase one. Certainly the current magazines are letting the consumers down in that department. Anyways, if you want, you certainly are welcome to look at it. Thanks, Barry |
RE: Showtime
RTF weight is 10lbs 3oz.
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RE: Showtime
OAK,
I notice on my showtime that the pull-pull wires for the rudder will have a lot of slop when the rudder is deflected, but it is tight when neutral. Is this normal with pull-pull setup? If your pull-pull does this it isn't setup right. The distance between the cable attach points at the servo must be the same as the distance between cable attach point on rudder horn. |
RE: Showtime
ORIGINAL: BoneDoc Just got my showtime today, and I'd thought I'd make a couple of comments. The kit looks fantastic, and well done. The CF gear, believe it or not, looks identical to the Extra 260 gear (other than the height and width). While the Extra gear looks rather flimsy for that size airplane, I think it might be just right for this one. Have you guys had any delamination issues with the gear? I might reinforce it with fiberglass strapping tape just to be on the safe side. The kit itself builds just like the Extra 260 (surprise surprise, same designer) other than CA hinges instead of robart-style, so much so that I bet I can do this without looking at the manual at all :):eek:. ... Can't wait to get started. So far have you guys found reinforcement issues? The issue I found was right behind the canopy were the plywood meets balsa stringers. on a semi hard landing the left side collapsed. When I repaired it the balsa was was soft and paper like. I hope this might just be an isolated quality control issue. (landing gear held up great) My suggestion would be to check it and if you wanted to beef it up use strips of 3/32 lite ply to bridge the balsa stringers (4) over the first bay should be far enough. and the area should be accesable enough without too much cussing! I put the Saito 100 on mine and she flies real nice. I'm not sure of the weight difference but the Saito 120 or the YS 110 might be the ideal engines for this plane. I can hover at 1/2 throttle but would like the extra power for the oops factor. I have not tried the SFGs yet. I am still tweaking the radio program for KE and straight up and down lines. Though I have to say that wihout SFGs hovering, KE and flat spins are amazing. The power of this rudder is outstanding. My next mod would be to upgrade the MG645 on the rudder. |
RE: Showtime
It seems to me that if you set up the pull pull for the rudder like the manual suggests, the mechanical advantage would be way off. According to the measurements in the manual, you set the control horn so the distance from the top of the horn to the surface is 3/4". That leaves about 5/8" from the hole to the surface. If you use the suggested servo arms, there's about 1"-1.5" from the servo center to the hole in the arm. I don't see how this would work. You'd max out deflection at around 50% servo throw.
The elevator setup appears to be off, too, but not as far. Ideally, there should be a 1:1 ratio in the distances at the servo and surface. To me, this is just inviting flutter, and is putting a much greater load on the servo than necessary. Maybe that's why such large servos are recommended...... |
RE: Showtime
1 Attachment(s)
OK Guys...Here's the finished product. [X(] Saito .91. (not concerned about 3D capabilities since I haven't graduated to that level yet).:eek: Weight comes in at 8.5 lbs. (including 6.2 oz on nose). I went with the pull-pull on rudder. (not worried about the slack in wires as long as they are tight in neutral pos.);) If all goes as planed, I will maiden this baby (along with my buddy's F-90) this afternoon or tomorrow. With all the rave from you guys, I'm very excited...Wish Me Luck!! :D
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RE: Showtime
Never mind on the control horn setup stuff. I wasn't thinking about the surface thickness. That rudder is pretty thick where the horn mounts, to the ratio is a lot closer than I first thought.
Anyway, I'm planning on putting a Saito 150 on mine. Got a pretty good deal on one, and since it weighs the same as the 120, it should work out fine. Rough calculations seem to make it come out around 9lbs 3oz. |
RE: Showtime
:)I'm thinking the Saito 150 will be a great engine on this plane. Let us know how you like it. Mine weighs 8lbs 12ozs with a YS 110 and I'm runing all the stock stuff except the tires. So I think your weight is very realistic.
I think you'll really love this plane. I think it's awesome. I did break a SFG today however. Landing was just slightly rough and I touched the SFG. On a grass strip it's difficult to keep from bumping them once in a while. Also my landing gear has delamenated slightly. I'm gonna CA glue it tonight. I think it'll be ok. I'm hot and cold on the carbon fiber landing gear craze. The look very nice but seem to be weak and break. It's just a matter of time. Maybe aluminum would be better. The only planes I know that have carbon fiber gear art this one, the H9 Extra 260 and the Yak. All three of these planes seem to be having the delamenating issue. It looks so beautiful but then it cracks. So far on the Yak my CA'd gear is holding up fine and I expect this one to also. But it's a shame to have these break so easily. Anyways had 3 great flight today. Still getting used to the SFGs but I like how they fly. Make most 3D stuff easier. And today I was doing great KE. Nice, slow and high alpha. And they don't take much rudder. Also hover is very easy with the SFGs. Anyways, had a great flying day today. Thanks, Barry |
RE: Showtime
Pull Pull set-ups............there seem to be a few comments here about slack developing when deflected and someone commented on distance between attachment points at servo vs attachment points at control surface.
Through trial and error and other modellers advice I've learned a few things about this. Recently read an article that confirmed what I learned. Will look for the article and post where it is because it was a great explanation and will probably do better than I will try to here. For full mechanical advantage the distance between the attachment points of the cable at the servo and at the control surface should be equal. This will also result in a proportional movement of control surface to the movement of the servo arm. These measurments can be different and will not result in slack developing on one side when surface is deflected. Only down-side of these distances being different is that you won't be getting full mechanical advantage. No different than using standard control rod and using the closest hole to the center at the servo and the middle hole on the control horn. The cause of the slack developing is another issue. If the attachment points at the control surface are not in line with the hinge line and the attachment points at the servo are in line with the servo output shaft you will get slack when deflecting the surface. If you want to you can off-set the attachment points but, you must make sure that the off-set is equal at both ends. Extreme wrong thing to do is to off-set at the surface behind the hing line and off-set at the servo ahead of the output shaft and you'll have serious problems unless you've used rubber bands for your cables:) If you off-set only one end of the system then you will get differential throw. Hope this helps and if anyone else has tips for pull-pull systems I'd love to hear them. OK so back to the point of this thread..............anyone want a used FT90?? I'm selling mine to be replaced with the ST4D Cheers, Dave |
RE: Showtime
Barry,
So how does the SFG make hovering easier? I have a Saito 150 that I will slap on mine. So far, I had to enlarge the mounting holes on the engine mount to make it wide enough for the 150. I hope it will hold:). Seems solid enough. So is your SFG repairable? |
RE: Showtime
:)BoneDoc. I'm not sure exactly why hovering is easier but it is. It must have something to do with not letting it fall out on the sides as easy because the SFGs. won't let it fall as easy. Don't know for sure, but I find it considerbly easier. I leave the rudder on low rates with the SFGs and the elevator on high.
Already got the SFG repaired. Pulled the covering off and glued with CA glue and recovered. I have a feeling this is going to be a common repair. Also repaired the carbon fiber landing gear. Used CA glue and let it wick in the cracks. Hopefully it will hold. Had to do the same think with the Yak gear and it seems to be holding fine. At least so far. I think the Saito 150 will be an excellent engine. You having to enlarge the holes makes me think people are right with there comments (seanychen and Ian W.) that maybe predrilling the firewall isn't the best way. Anyways, good luck, Thanks Barry |
RE: Showtime
Flew the ST for the first time yesterday evening. AWESOME ! The plane is very crisp. Goes where you point it, and it stays there. Didn't fly with the SFG's yet but without them this plane will knife edgd the full length of the runway, without ANY roll coupling...just hold in rudder and that's it. Flys pattern maneuvers like a champ.
Seem to come in for landing pretty hot and has a long roll out. I think I need some breaks..lol. I'll adjust. First flight needed zero trim. I did need to tame the low rate ailerons somewhat and increase the elevator low rate just slightly. The Saito .91 has plenty of power to pull it along. Verticals have a lot to be desired though. I'm not really into 3D, so I'm thrilled with the performance. :) I was a little concerned about the "tall" tail wheel, but it didn't seem to be an issue. Got in three good flights, along with test flying my buddy's F-90. (I'll take the ST) :D Can't wait to break this one in and get comfortable with it. I'm sure it will teach me a lot. I hope to get out next weekend to test out the SFG's. On the last flight, as I was taxing back, the left wheel pant worked loose and fell off as it approached. No Damage! Real antsy get get this baby out again today, but the forcast is calling for thunder showerswhere I fly, so...[&o] This is a Great flying airplane...Great Job Mike! ;) |
RE: Showtime
Putting together my Showtime with a YS110. After reading some of the comments, I decided to use the pull-pull setup. But after spending a couple of hours trying to thread the wire through that tiny brass tub, I'm about to give up and get a replacement from the hobby store. Any of you guys have the same problem?
The only other problem I've had is one of the 8-32 control horns was actually 10-32. So rather than wait for a replacement, I had to pick up a set at the hobby store. Otherwise, the plane looks good. Great info in this thread which I've gone over a couple of times. |
RE: Showtime
Ed42d, I don't know about everyone else but I don't even try to use those little brass sleeves anymore. Just run down to walmart & get some of the approriate size from the fishing section. Been using them for years & never a problem. Cheaper too.
You guys remember a few pages back when I said I was going to use a new reciever from Polk hobby? Well let me tell you how it went. [>:] I can't really blame this on any particular thing yet as I haven't got it sorted out yet but My Showtime maiden was pretty much a disaster. Spent most of yesterday tying up loose ends on the plane and finally went out to fly it around 5:30 in the evening. A thunder storm was coming and the wind was kicking up pretty good as well. 15 & up if I had to guess. The range check was a little short but not what I would consider unacceptable. And last but not least, I had a 15X4 prop for the Saito 100, which probably should have been a 16X4. Well, I guess the real last straw was my son telling me over & over again that he thought I probably shouldn't do the maiden because of the wind & the fact that he could see lightning in the distance (remember the thunderstorm?) Anyways, I took off & saw the plane was just a little tail heavy for my tastes but not to bad. The wind really affected it a lot, evidently it was blowing even more up there (50-100 ft.) then it was down on the ground. Anyways, after a few minutes of fighting the wind and the plane I brought her in for a landing. I looked everthing over & all seemed to be well so I kicked her back up again. A couple of big circles around the field and the planes seemed to become very mushy on the sticks. All of the sudden I saw both ailerons fluttering violently & I do mean violently. I immediatly killed the throttle & let the plane kinda flop down to the ground. It came down just over a rise in the field & out of my sight but it was a soft landing I know 'cause it came down flat & it wasn't that high up, less then 20 feet. Anyways, when I got to the plane the only damage was to the horizontal stabilizers (& the landing gear block) Both horizontal stabilizers were destroyed & the elevators were ripped out by the hinges. It appears that they were fluttering too and it looks like the stabs just exploded. There is no apparent impact damage other then the landing gear block & the ailerons and wings appear to be OK. I am at a loss as to what happened. The plane wasn't flying fast at all so I am wondering if the wind could have been a factor or maybe, somehow, that never before tried radio could have been a factor. I had company all day today so I never got a chance to look at the plane today & the rain started yesterday before I had a chance to do more then a cursory inspection after the fact. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow. The good news is the stabilizers are apparently all that is damaged so if Horizon has them in stock, it shouldn't take long to repair it. |
RE: Showtime
do i need to set up a pull pull with the ys 110?
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RE: Showtime
:)cstevec...Man your story is just flat weird. I don't even know what to say except man, I'm sorry for what happened. The flutter scares me a bit. So far (about 25 flights) I haven't had anything close to that. I can't see how the wind would cause flutter especially with a 4W pitch prop. I wouldn't think you could go fast enough to cause a problem. I've made some serious full speed (level) pasess with a 6 pitch prop just to see what would happen and no flutter at all. I do have metal gear servos. What servos are you using? That possibly could be part of the problem. I used Dubro pinned hinges that I epoxyed in. What hinges did you use? Wow, that's just bazar.
zurgreturns... I used the pull/pull with mine. I have the battery just barely ahead of the CG so my guess is yes, you'll need to use the pull/pull. Thanks Barry |
RE: Showtime
Has anyone else noticed any problems with the alignment of the SFGs? The ones on my right wing are not in the same plane. The one on the bottom is shifted about 3/16" toward the wingtip at the LE of the SFG. It seems like the hole that the pin fits into wasn't drilled in the right spot. I'm going to fix it before I fly it, but it made me think about what YNOT said about his fluttering. This may have been the cause. I think I'll also replace the hinges with the Radio South ones. They seem to be a lot more sturdy.
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RE: Showtime
:)My SFGs are a little off. Also, they are not exactly straight up and down. I have to trim the plane differnently when I use them but it doesn't seem to be a problem. Also, I definetly try to keep the speed lower when I fly with them, but I haven't noticed flutter with them on but I'm pretty cautious with them on about speed. They are designed to help the plane in slow manuevers so that's how I use them. They sure make the plane fun though. But I enjoy flying it without them also. And I think you better get good at repairing them, I've already had to repair one.
Thanks Barry |
RE: Showtime
ORIGINAL: cstevec Ed42d, I don't know about everyone else but I don't even try to use those little brass sleeves anymore. Just run down to walmart & get some of the approriate size from the fishing section. Been using them for years & never a problem. Cheaper too. You guys remember a few pages back when I said I was going to use a new reciever from Polk hobby? Well let me tell you how it went. [>:] I can't really blame this on any particular thing yet as I haven't got it sorted out yet but My Showtime maiden was pretty much a disaster. Spent most of yesterday tying up loose ends on the plane and finally went out to fly it around 5:30 in the evening. A thunder storm was coming and the wind was kicking up pretty good as well. 15 & up if I had to guess. The range check was a little short but not what I would consider unacceptable. And last but not least, I had a 15X4 prop for the Saito 100, which probably should have been a 16X4. Well, I guess the real last straw was my son telling me over & over again that he thought I probably shouldn't do the maiden because of the wind & the fact that he could see lightning in the distance (remember the thunderstorm?) Anyways, I took off & saw the plane was just a little tail heavy for my tastes but not to bad. The wind really affected it a lot, evidently it was blowing even more up there (50-100 ft.) then it was down on the ground. Anyways, after a few minutes of fighting the wind and the plane I brought her in for a landing. I looked everthing over & all seemed to be well so I kicked her back up again. A couple of big circles around the field and the planes seemed to become very mushy on the sticks. All of the sudden I saw both ailerons fluttering violently & I do mean violently. I immediatly killed the throttle & let the plane kinda flop down to the ground. It came down just over a rise in the field & out of my sight but it was a soft landing I know 'cause it came down flat & it wasn't that high up, less then 20 feet. Anyways, when I got to the plane the only damage was to the horizontal stabilizers (& the landing gear block) Both horizontal stabilizers were destroyed & the elevators were ripped out by the hinges. It appears that they were fluttering too and it looks like the stabs just exploded. There is no apparent impact damage other then the landing gear block & the ailerons and wings appear to be OK. I am at a loss as to what happened. The plane wasn't flying fast at all so I am wondering if the wind could have been a factor or maybe, somehow, that never before tried radio could have been a factor. I had company all day today so I never got a chance to look at the plane today & the rain started yesterday before I had a chance to do more then a cursory inspection after the fact. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow. The good news is the stabilizers are apparently all that is damaged so if Horizon has them in stock, it shouldn't take long to repair it. |
RE: Showtime
As far as speed....I can say that if done correctly....flutter is not a problem. With such large surfaces proper mechanical advantage and sealed hinge gaps are a MUST!!!! My friend who had the ST with the O.S. 1.08 on it finally got some fuel delivery problems taken care of....lets just say full throttle passes are just awsome. Speeds have to be at 80mph or a bit more. They are blistering for this plane. No hint of flutter so far. Low KE passes are a thing of beauty done wide open. I wish I had the camera with me today so I could have shot some vid.....maybe next weekend.
Neo Out!!!! www.teamlawndart.com |
RE: Showtime
How do sealed hingelines stop flutter ?
The only thing they can do in this respect, is to act as a braking device-that is - stop the free movement of the surfaces If the rest of the setup is loosy -then this damping "may" help. I fly my 50cc EFYAK wide open-it has huge ailerons and the engine turns 8340 in level flight on Mejzlic 22x8- (on board tattle tale tach records rpm )so it is movin - no sealed ailerons or elevators Good linkages and JR8411 servos hold well I am assembling the Showtime this week -using a Saito 100 and a big dose of nitro- Looking forward to it -- |
RE: Showtime
Yes, I finally got the os1.08 up to it's full power... something with the carb... took it apart & put it back together... works great... No idea what it was. (before you guys ask... yes I have a filter)
Ok back to the ST... I did the old flutter test with out the SFG's... ya know... a very large full speed split "S"... I did not come back on the throttle... heart went in throat, Showtime didn't even twitch. As for the knife edge passes... Video is needed. I ll have Neo shoot some this sat/sun Scott |
RE: Showtime
I use a ys 110 on my showtime with APC 16x4w prop.
It fly really well for 3d. Does any body know if this prop is too small that can cause damage to the engine. What prop is best for this engine and for 3d flight ? (most of the time I fly on the mid range r.p.m and not with full throttle). Thank you guys. Eran |
RE: Showtime
With my setup Saito 100 & APC 15X4 I stopped tuning at 9800 on the ground. The prop went supersonic in the air but air speed was probably less then 40 mph. With the wind across the surfaces, maybe 55-60. Maybe. There is no alop in any of the surfaces and all of the normal stuff was done, don't think I overlooked anything.
Flutter is not something I am real familiar with as the only plane I have that really flutters is a little Ace Ultimate I seriously overpowered but when it occurs on that plane you see some very high speed surface movement and you can hear it too. On the showtime it occured with the plane maybe 100 yds. away and I could see the ailerons but didn't notice the tail. When I got to the plane the tail was torn up but the ailerons looked fine. It started raining just as I got to the plane so as I said I didn't look it over very well. I will check it out tonight though and let you know what I find. |
RE: Showtime
Theres a showtime at my LHS with my name on it. Hopfully I can get my dad to take me there tonight. He is getting it for me to replace my Harrier. I was going to get a new harrier but i was not to impressed with it. Took me all day to read this thread 25 pages!!!
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