RE: GP Cap 232
 

It flies nice! Sort of modified as you can see. It has a Turnigy HP50 in it. It's a copy of a DA50, mounting, mufflers etc., even looks like a DA50. This plane is a rocket!!!

RE: GP Cap 232
 

dox,
Sorry about your wing failing, but I think it may be time to let it go. My cap has 300+ flights on it with a 50cc and it is in awesome shape. Snaps are awesome. I do think a 50cc is a bit much for it as well. Although, mine is way too much fun to consider putting anything else on it. You can see from the video that my wing is plenty strong. You got a bad piece of wood, plain and simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA9g2WfBK8s

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I have nothing further to add on the wing front except that my wing hasn't flown and therefore hasn't failed - but I can see how, as designed, it easily could.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Nice flyng on the video. I like those waterfalls. Where does your cap balance out?

Later,

Dan

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Glad you like the video.

It's actually pretty close to the nose heavy recommendation. I flew it for a while in IMAC and needed the CG forward to get it to track straight. It is set up so that on a 45 inverted upline it flies straight hands off. The power is what is whipping it around in the waterfalls.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Did I tell you that I also think tyour knife edge snaps are the bomb. What a great manuver for a some what routine pass. I'm going to practice that one this season. I'm temped to cheat and use the snap roll button on the jr9503 .. but you really need to time the exit. Everytime I use the switch my exits suck and I tend to over snap.


WRAM show yesterday .. Signs of the time.. The show is getting smaller and smaller, Vendors in the same phyical booths they have been in for years.. WRAM.. you got to mixit up a little... But all in all it's a sign that the Winter in the NE is leaving and thats why we all like the show. Picked up lots of stock up stuff.. Diappointed that the DA engines weren't discounted a penny for the show, but I did order a cool 15cc gasser from KMP for my H9 60 mustang.


Anyway... Now that I've seen your video I'm a little more inspired to get my CAP back up in the air for this season.

Later All,

Dan

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Thanks, Dan
The KE snap is one of my favorite maneuvers especially the 1 1/2 snap, it just looks cool. Enjoy your cap Dan, nothing else snaps like a cap.

One trick on the KE snaps is to use very little elevator. The KE snaps react a little different than the straight and level snaps. You already have the stab partially blanketed so it doesn't take much elevator to get it to come around.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I'll try that with a little less elevator. I think that manuver is just jaw dropping. Keep the vids coming.

Thanks,

Dan

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hi Guys,

Well, i got a response from Great Planes. Apparently they believe that the glue joint was poor on the wings. They dont believe that there is any product issues here at all. There was a suggestion in their response that there are areas where no glue could be seen on the joint. This would stand to reason since they are looking a sheared rib, not a delaminated joint.

There is one photo (the sixth one) at the bottom left where this conclusion might be drawn. What they are really looking at though is the delamination of the factory produced joint. There are two pieces of timber that make up the last rib on each wing. This photo reveals a delamination of this factory joint.

THis is the end of it as far as i am concerned. I am thankful i still have all my gear in one piece. I thought i would give you guys an update.

cheers

RE: GP Cap 232
 

For what it's worth...

I thought the glue joint looked good. The only place I could have seen a failure is where the wing pegs mate with the second, hidden plate. Take a look behind the wing pegs and see if you hit the hidden hole.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I can remember reading way way way back, that someone had put this plane together and was flying it without gluing the wing together. I never heard that he had any trouble with that, not that I would recomend it. Maybe he will read this and update us on the status just for curiosity sake.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

i can remember same thing as you, but i won't do that too...no problem for my beautiful cap..

Stephane

RE: GP Cap 232
 

For Great planes to say that the glue joint failed is WRONG there were 3 other very experienced pilots up at the field that day and all said it was the product that had failed
One builds jets the other has years of scratch building, myself Fly and build large scale war birds 100inch plus
This plane was flown round at half throttle for the flight and there was no real stresses put on this model at all, even if there was a 20cc engine mounted it still would have failed.
This was a trim flight only.
The wing was joined together with Z epoxy 30 minute glue and if you look at the photos closely you will see that it is the other half of the wings rib still attached and that it is the timber that has torn
My back ground is Carpentry joinery and anybody with half a brain can see the results
Shame on Great Plane for not admitting to this poor quality product and a least sending Dan a new set of wings for free
The reason I know this is because I am the Pilot that flew it that day and if a product fails not due to poor construction, you would think that a company would back up there product and service the correct way .
WELL GREAT PLANES SINCE THERE IS NO SERVICE WHEN IT IS CLEAR IT’S A FAILED PRODUCT I WILL NEVER RECOMMEND YOUR PRODUCT AGAIN NOR WILL I BUY IT.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I am beginning to suspect there is a part of the story we are not getting.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hi ! I dont agree with you P47,

I have flown this model for more than 200 flights with some severe structural stress and my wing hasn'nt really given any problem. This model has also gone through serious crash when one of my high speed inverted low pass went wrong but, my wing still held through even though I lost almost 4 inches of fuselage behind firewall. I have rebuilt that part and used it again for last 1 year.

On the construction side, I would not really recommend anybody using 30 min. epoxy on high stress stuctural joints as sometimes I find that it does not really give enough "wetting" time for epoxy to bond properly with both the surfaces.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hi
It’s not to say that all of these models are poorly designed, if you look at the photos it clearly shows separation with the timber not the glue join so what I am trying to say is that the timber in this case was of poor quality the glue did not give way at all and the plane was flown around half throttle at the time with no high stress.
I suppose you have to see it in real life to get the picture and there is no other story to be told at all.
It could be one in a million but it doesn't detract the fact the fault is in the timber and in this case shows no delimitation of the epoxy glue at all.
Best regards

RE: GP Cap 232
 

JR,
I looked at your photos and one thing struck me as odd. The wing joiner on your model does not look like it's made of plywood like mine is. You mention that it's a hardwood, but it looks more like balsa to me - I'm not there to see it or touch it, but regardless I believe the wing joiner material is the root cause of your wing failure.

Have you contacted GP and asked them about the wing joiner? The factory may have accidently substituted the wrong materail for your plane.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I think your right! It does look like balsa!

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I have another set of wings on order which are due to arrive anyday. I would be interested to check what i get for the brace. It could be that the wrong material was packed.

I referred to the brace as hardwood because that is what GP's documentation said.

It maybe of some interest for you to know that Balsa wood is in fact a hardwood (determined by wood structure not density). I would like to think that GP use a different type of hardwood for their brace arrangements!

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I've had 2 of these Caps. Both wing joiners were plywood. Not balsa.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Sometimes the manufacturers change something without checking with GP first. Needless to say, if you get the next set of wings with a "hardwood" joiner, I would not put it together and talk to them and us.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Well i got the wings and it arrived with a hardwood joiner. It certainly isnt plywood. This thing has spooked me quite alot. I am not sure i would put the 50cc back on this model

I was thinking about replacing the joiner with aluminium.

Has anyone run a DLE 30 in this model? If so how did it go and what size prop were u running?

RE: GP Cap 232
 

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Aluminum isn't a bad idea ... I would prolly try some carbon fiber also. But like we all said .. We haven't had that problem.


I'm running a ZDZ 40 in mine with a 20X8 prop. With that engine it's got all the power you need. I think the DLE30 would also be a good choice.

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RE: GP Cap 232
 

,
Holy smokes Jeff! You're right! That is not plywood!

Whether balsa is a hardwood or not technically is somewhat irrelevant. Undoubtedly that piece of wood would crack sooner or later. JR, you need to forget about what it's called and use 5-ply - I believe 1/4" (can't recall). Another extremely stiff and easy to build option would be two 1/8" 5-ply sandwiching a layer of CF all laid up and put under pressure. In some classic pattern designs, light dihedral braces (what this is) used to be built from cross-grained sheet balsa laminated with CF. In fact, CF laminated balsa can be structurally stiffer than ply but no need to use balsa here on a 27%.

David.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hi Guys,

Well i felt an update on the wing issue was overdue. I took the model up for its first flight with the new wings on the weekend. The flight went down without a problem.

I have done the following things to the model;

1) Replaced the hardwood wing joiner with five ply.
2) Inserted an anti rotation dowel at the back of the wing.
3) Stripped part of the covering off the underside of the wing and carbon fibered the join.
4) Changed the DL50 for a DLE30. I maidened it with an 18x10 APC prop
5) Replaced the undercarrige with a carbon fiber arrangement.
6) The model ready to fly weighed in at 6.2kg (13.66 pounds)

For the record, the model flew great with the DLE30 and the 18x10 prop combo. It wasnt underpowered at all. I suppose it comes down to how you want to fly the model as to what would be best. I intend to use it for sports type flying and running circuits with a bit of speed. For this the combo was fine.

I hope i get as much enjoyment out of this model as you guys seem to be getting although i am still pissed off with Great Planes and there product support. I have had to spend quite a lot of coin to get the model back in the air. I am convinced there are better options out there if you want to run a 50cc which would be alot less problematic although you guys might disagree

cheers