<div>"He eventually did come by our club and flew there several times."</div><div>
</div><div>The club I am a member of requires AMA membership (insurance coverage) before the first flight. Your profile says you are a member of the Dalton RC Flyers. The AMA website says one of the club restrictions for the Dalton RC Flyers is AMA membership. So, assuming all this is accurate why was he allowed to fly "several times" without AMA coverage? Did this not put the club at risk?</div><div>
</div><div>My point is that unless we as club members take the AMA requirement seriously why should someone else less knowledgeable about it put much importance on it?</div>

There is a"guest privilege" at all clubs that allows a full dues paying member to "sponsor" a neophyte for a visit and a flying lesson or two. It is fully covered by the insurance and a good way to suck in a member. Like a free dose of heroin or cocaine, if you get my drift.

I have never heard of this. Do you have a citation to an AMA rule?

I would like to see that in writing also. My understanding is that an AMA member can "buddy box" a non-AMA member ONE TIME using only the AMA members equipment. That is the free taste...then they join or the club may do the Introductory Pilot Program which will give them a little more time without joining. But, I am not aware of any free passes for a Non-AMA member to fly and to be insured.

Oh no, I see this thread going like any other AMA related one. People pro AMA and AMA haters.<div>Watch it being closed by moderators in one more page or two</div>

You aren't allowed to take a friend to your club field, hook him up to a buddy box and let him fly?

I would never join your lousy club, that's for sure.

That's not actually a citation to a rule. I don't doubt that lots of clubs do this, but I'm pretty sure it's not covered by the AMA insurance, as you claimed. And your original post said nothing about a buddy box; it seemed to be just about letting people fly.

I suppose you just made it up. Why people post "facts" that they have made up out of whole cloth is a mystery to me.

Now you are splitting hairs.

Here is the first page of our clubs website.
<div style="margin-left: 40px;"></div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">Welcome to the Loudoun County Aeromodelers Association (LCAA). Our goal is to promote model aircraft building and flying for the purpose of education, pleasure and recreation. The public is invited to club meetings held on the 2nd Tuesday of each month at 7:30pm at the Reston Police Station in Reston, Virginia. Meeting activities include show 'n tell of members' aircraft, a raffle with great prizes, and discussions on club events, activities, and business. Gather with us on <u>Facebook</u>.</p><p style="margin-left: 80px;">We invite you to join us at our flying field at Banshee Reeks Park in Loudoun County. <u>Non-club members are encouraged to try their hand at flying as a guest of a club member with assistance from a qualified pilot. </u>As a member of the club, flight instructors are available to assist new pilots. All club members must be members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA). You must be a guest of a LCAA member or a LCAA member yourself to fly at the field. Only club qualified pilots may fly at the field by themselves. Membership applications for LCAA and AMA are available on this site.</p><p style="margin-left: 80px;">Field hours: the LCAA flying field is open 7 days a week from 9 am to one half hour before sunset. On the second Saturday of each month, the field opens an hour later at 10 am. Occasionally, the field is closed for a limited amount of hours for special occasions and members are given prior notice.
</p><p style="margin-left: 80px;"></p><table border="0" style="width: 565px; height: 76px;"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left" colspan="2"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" align="left"></td> <td valign="top" align="left"></td> </tr> </tbody></table>

It looks to me as if your club's program is simply the intro pilot program. My club does that, too, though it's nothing like what you described at first. What you call "splitting hairs" is what most people call accuracy. The intro pilot program does not allow "any dues paying member" to fly with the non-AMA member, and it requires a buddy box. The person we are talking about said nothing about a buddy box or about the intro pilot program. I'll concede that you didn't just make this up; you just seem to have misremembered or misdescribed the facts.

I am aware of the AMA rules regarding non members being allowed to fly. it is not prohibited, It's just not covered by insurance. For most of the flights he was hooked up to a buddy box. He did solo and take off and land by himself. It was after that that he never returned. All but 1 of the flights we were alone at the field. I saw no danger in allowing him to fly. The goal was to get him to fly at a club where he could get help and learn the safe way to fly. And for all I know he may have joined another club.

KaP2011
Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110

I have no problem at all with this sort of thing. I agree that the AMA insurance wouldn't apply (except with a buddy box and an intro pilot, plus paperwork), but if the risk is small and you have homeowners or other coverage, why not. Indeed, I wish the AMA would change its coverage rule so that all flying on a buddy box with an AMA member in control is covered. It seems to me that the person with the buddy box is the person who is "really" flying, so why not let that person's AMA insurance cover it. It would be a way to encourage more people to show newcomers what flying is like. They have broadened the intro pilot program some, so maybe someday ....

No, it is hair splitting. The front page of our club website does not use the term buddy-box, but you can be sure that no neophyte flies without one. I did not mis-describe anything, Idescribed the pilot intro program in colloquial terms.

Unfortunetly, the WORD IS OUT about the AMA and its expert members bickering over rules. This forum does more to damage the image of the AMA than can be calculated. Shut this forum down.

Or maybe the other way around?

Kurt

If the young gentleman did not reach the age of 19 before July 1st of the year his membership in the AMA would be free. http://www.modelaircraft.org/membership/youth.aspx

Well I can, because I am an Introductory Instructor Pilot at my main club. The rank and file member is - by AMA Rules - not allowed to do so.

If you were around my area, I would do my utmost to hold you to that promise!

 I believe we have strayed from the subject, that being, how do we get the word out to r/c pilots who do not know about the recent effort by the government to regulate our hobby and how sometimes their actions can have an adverse effect on everyone who puts a flying machine into our national airspace.

I think it is quite obvious that the young fellow had not read the instruction manual fully otherwise he would have known about the AMA. The fact is that since he was unaware of the AMA he was also unaware of the FAA's activities. I know this because I asked him. And when I told him, he did not seem too concerned. A symptom with much further implications.

KaP2011
Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110 </p>

True words... More important is how someone finds out about the AMA than when... Those little notes about AMA inside of model kits, more often than not, do more harm than good...if you’re in this hobby for any real length of time you will most certainly become to know what the AMA is...to you...

It is my goal for those that find out about AMA through me, look at this AMA member as just another brother willing to help...not as some overbearing principal of yet another organization trying to assimilate and control some aspect of their life...

The overbearing and controlling image, all to often perpetuated, is what hurts AMA and more importantly the hobby itself the most IMO. It always amazes me how often I find new people considering the hobby express their erroneous but real concerns, at least to them, about the “license" needed to fly model airplanes... We need to work on that!

Thank you.

This was my first impression of the AMA, I felt that I could not fly anywhere without being member of some club that I felt was only out to get my hard-earned money. I was even a member of the SFA for awhile in protest to the AMA. But, since then I have changed my mind about the AMA but I still feel it's unfare to have to be a member of one club in order to be a member of another...... now look, I've went and strayed from the subject......


KaP2011
Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110

I can't totally disagree with you, because life is awfully unfair sometimes. However, the dual membership issue is actually purchasing liability insurance to cover any disastrous occurrence and supporting the local clubs flying field and associated amenities. To me that ain't too bad a deal.

And I agree, that is why I changed my mind about the AMA. At that time in my life I was much younger and dumber. I was more interested in spending my money on airplanes, engines and radios.

Now I would still rather spend my money on airplanes, engines and radios but I have a wife now that keeps me in check.......mostly.

I have also gotten wiser. I now see the benefit of having the insurance, especially when it comes to getting landowners to allow r/c flying on their property. But I believe the best benefit is having a large enough membership to actualy be able to change minds in Washington.

KaP2011
Ultra Sport Brotherhood #110

I think the AMA is an excellent organization and encourage modelers to join. OTOH I don't think membership in any organization should be required for enjoyment of an activity, such as being required to join Trout Unlimited to fish, Ducks Unlimited to hunt, SCCA to drive a Porsche, etc.

Clubs, naturally should be free to set their own requirements for activities conducted on their property or under their sponsorship, If for example a shooting range requires NRA membership, or a motorcycle club requires AMA (the other one) membership that is a different situation from engaging in those activities privately.

jess

Jess - exactly!

Kurt

Currently you dont have to join the AMA in order to fly rc, OTOH finding a place to fly rc especailly larger models can be diffcult at best for non AMA members.
But when the new FAA rules kick in I guess sometime in 2013 many types of rc flying such as turbines will be restricted to AMA members only.