Another Drone Pilot does it Again
06-29-2016, 08:20 PM
#3351
I never said PSA or commercials on TV, they are routinely used for bathroom and snack runs. Most watch the local news, for weather and /or sports reports so either lead that segment or put it in between. And, while I do agree that the internet is the cheapest way to go, it's not effective for those that are actually the problem. Those that the FAA can contact already know what's right and wrong so they are not the issue. The issue is those that don't show up on the FAA or AMA lists that fly because they don't think they will get caught. Put out a blanket announcement over the evening news for two or three days and then, if someone gets busted, it's on them and not the FAA..
The news stations don't run FAA announcements free of charger.
I am not a proponent of email announcements due to the use of spam filters. Many times, I see an email get blocked or deleted as garbage, using regular media avoids that
So the FAA should change their entire communications procedures because you don't like it? Perhaps you're using inadequate tools. That really sounds like a personal problem. I get lots of email everyday and don't loose anything. Maybe you should upgrade to a better service provided and/or use better email tools.
The news stations don't run FAA announcements free of charger.
I am not a proponent of email announcements due to the use of spam filters. Many times, I see an email get blocked or deleted as garbage, using regular media avoids that
So the FAA should change their entire communications procedures because you don't like it? Perhaps you're using inadequate tools. That really sounds like a personal problem. I get lots of email everyday and don't loose anything. Maybe you should upgrade to a better service provided and/or use better email tools.
The ones that really needed to see it are the ones that probably didn't get it so it's not the AMA or FAA at fault for lack of comunication, rather the failure to use normal media(i.e. over TV and radio station news broadcasts for starters) rather than attempting to use the internet.
06-29-2016, 08:26 PM
#3352
It was also used on the JT-8 engines used on the 737-100 and 200s in Alaska to prevent gravel and debris from being sucked into their fan blades. If the airlines are that worried about a small rock/pebble, do you think a quad is any less worrying for them, considering the cost of a turbine engine. I haven't checked yet but it wouldn't surprise me to see them on the CFM-56s used on the 300 through 900s now in service. Now, for a little more trivia, the 737 was never intended to fly off unimproved runways. The 727 was developed to do so which was why it had the three JT-8s mounted on the sides of the fuse and centerline in the tail. The plane turned out to be too heavy for many of it's planned runways so it was turned into the workhorse of many airlines passenger routes as well as being converted into a freighter flown for many years by UPS, DHL and USPS, just to name a few
06-29-2016, 08:28 PM
#3353
06-29-2016, 08:39 PM
#3354
Just because a rock or pebble cases damage doesn't mean that a similar impact will bring down and airliner. The engine will have expansive damage but most likely will have usable power, and even if it goes out there is at least one more engine. So I still believe it is ridiculous to ground fire fighter planes because several drones have been sighted in the area. Most likely the drones will give way and if they don't the damage will not bring the aircraft down., Damage to one engine but will most likely still have significant power. Not a great chance of fatality at all, but a large chance of someone getting burned to death if they don't operate.
06-29-2016, 08:58 PM
#3356
A damaged engine will be unbalanced and will begin to self-destruct in short order. Before that happens, the pilot had better be looking for someplace to put down or he will be in serious trouble. You also have to consider the loss of primary hydraulics, electrical power as well as fuel if there is fuel line damage. You can't just shut down the fuel pumps and, if there is damage to the lines, the fuel will dump much faster than a remaining engine will burn fuel off so now you're looking at an unbalanced aircraft as well as the fuel will normally be burned out of the wing the engine is mounted on first, then the the centerline tank due to the way the pumps are made and piped to the engines
06-29-2016, 09:05 PM
#3357
Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie 
I never said PSA or commercials on TV, they are routinely used for bathroom and snack runs. Most watch the local news, for weather and /or sports reports so either lead that segment or put it in between. And, while I do agree that the internet is the cheapest way to go, it's not effective for those that are actually the problem. Those that the FAA can contact already know what's right and wrong so they are not the issue. The issue is those that don't show up on the FAA or AMA lists that fly because they don't think they will get caught. Put out a blanket announcement over the evening news for two or three days and then, if someone gets busted, it's on them and not the FAA..
The news stations don't run FAA announcements free of charger. Why not, they report road closures in other parts of the state for free, talk about flight delays at the major airports all across the country for this reason or that without charging those airports a fee, where's the difference. If it's put out like a news story, there wouldn't be a charge since it's not an advertisement
I am not a proponent of email announcements due to the use of spam filters. Many times, I see an email get blocked or deleted as garbage, using regular media avoids that
So the FAA should change their entire communications procedures because you don't like it? Perhaps you're using inadequate tools. That really sounds like a personal problem. I get lots of email everyday and don't loose anything. Maybe you should upgrade to a better service provided and/or use better email tools. I'm not registered with the FAA, I DID NOT GET THAT ANNOUNCEMENT EITHER, didn't even know it existed until I saw it in this thread. I guess emailing is the best way to reach all the people that haven't registered with the FAA yet or don't plan to in general, hence my post below
Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie The ones that really needed to see it are the ones that probably didn't get it so it's not the AMA or FAA at fault for lack of comunication, rather the failure to use normal media(i.e. over TV and radio station news broadcasts for starters) rather than attempting to use the internet.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 06-29-2016 at 09:08 PM.
06-29-2016, 09:16 PM
#3358
More planes in the airline fleets=more flights worldwide=more chances for birdstrikes so, using that rationale, more quads in the hands of people that don't know the rules+more flights in the air from all the various airlines=more chances for a drone strike with possible catastrophic results. It obviously doesn't take a PHD to figure out that as flight numbers go up as well as the number of quads in the hands of idiots, the chances of a mid-air go up exponentially
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 06-29-2016 at 09:20 PM.
06-29-2016, 10:51 PM
#3359
BS any modern airline can fly all day long on one engine. Also the newer engines are designed to take 8 pound birds and keep running. Nt saying it will be perfectly smooth, but will still produce useable power. Most drones weigh much less than 8 pounds. But regardless for the old planes often used for firefighting your point is valid. But also valid for bird strikes. I bet there were a lot more birds around than the several drones sighted, and the birds are less likely to get out of the way!
1) Take a chicken leg bone and try to break it in two with your bare hands. For the average person, this isn't too difficult
2) Take a piece of 3/8 to 1/2" thick 6061 aluminum tube with a sidewall between .030 and .050 thick, that should put you in the size and strength range used in the average quad. Now, just like with the chicken bone, try to break it with your bare hands. You may bend it but I doubt you will break it.
Now, for experiment number two:
1) Take a piece of raw chicken breast and try to cut it with a piece of 1/8 thick aluminum plate or bar stock with a radius'd edge, Not too difficult but not as easy as a sharp knife
2) Take that same piece of radius'd aluminum and try to cut through a dead battery pack along with a receiver case. Not the same result, is it?
These two experiments demonstrate the difference between a bird going through the fan and a mid sized quad. What you have to remember is ALL MODERN ENGINES ARE HIGH BYPASS TURBOFANS. This means that they are no more than a turboprop in a sleeve, using more blades and at a higher rpm. Once those blades are gone, and they will be once they start hitting that sleeve due to imbalance, that engine will become nothing but drag producing no significant thrust, no electricity and no hydraulic pressure since between 85 and 90% of the trust comes from the front fan and, upon being damaged, an experienced crew would shut it down. Unfortunately, it wouldn't stop that fan from spinning and destroying itself due to airflow through the sleeve.
The older planes you referred to use a narrower low bypass turbine, meaning that 85% of the thrust comes THROUGH the engine. A bird into it was likely to cause that engine to fail within seconds for that reason
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 06-29-2016 at 11:01 PM.
06-30-2016, 02:17 AM
#3360
Why not, they report road closures in other parts of the state for free, talk about flight delays at the major airports all across the country for this reason or that without charging those airports a fee, where's the difference. If it's put out like a news story, there wouldn't be a charge since it's not an advertisement
Why not contact the FAA directly with your request?
I'm not registered with the FAA, I DID NOT GET THAT ANNOUNCEMENT EITHER, didn't even know it existed until I saw it in this thread. I guess emailing is the best way to reach all the people that haven't registered with the FAA yet or don't plan to in general, hence my post below
Why are you not registered with the FAA? Why would expect to receive notification from the FAA if you're not even registered with the FAA?
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 06-30-2016 at 02:19 AM.
06-30-2016, 03:30 AM
#3361
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I never said PSA or commercials on TV, they are routinely used for bathroom and snack runs. Most watch the local news, for weather and /or sports reports so either lead that segment or put it in between. And, while I do agree that the internet is the cheapest way to go, it's not effective for those that are actually the problem. Those that the FAA can contact already know what's right and wrong so they are not the issue. The issue is those that don't show up on the FAA or AMA lists that fly because they don't think they will get caught. Put out a blanket announcement over the evening news for two or three days and then, if someone gets busted, it's on them and not the FAA.. I am not a proponent of email announcements due to the use of spam filters. Many times, I see an email get blocked or deleted as garbage, using regular media avoids that
A net can only be cast so wide, the message isn't going to be reached by every person out there. And, more importantly, the message will be ignored by many. At the end of the day ignorance of the law isn't an affirmative defense, so those not following the law will be dealt with accordingly.
06-30-2016, 03:34 AM
#3362
More planes in the airline fleets=more flights worldwide=more chances for birdstrikes so, using that rationale, more quads in the hands of people that don't know the rules+more flights in the air from all the various airlines=more chances for a drone strike with possible catastrophic results. It obviously doesn't take a PHD to figure out that as flight numbers go up as well as the number of quads in the hands of idiots, the chances of a mid-air go up exponentially
06-30-2016, 03:38 AM
#3363
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
No, it's not ironic. I'm not the one that has habitually attacked others for not seeing the AMA as the end all be all to model aviation for the past several months. I think it's pathetic that some have gone to the belittle, redirect and discredit tactics to make themselves look good at the expense of others. At the same time, I've not attacked the AMA because of what they have or haven't done because I figure the AMA is a very small organization as compared to some, that is unless you think my asking where their multi-million dollar yearly budget goes.
Nothing hypothetical about it. I asked a question based on a non-biased view of the situation. The FAA sent out a polite notice about quads in fire zones, okay I get that. The problem is how did they send it out and who did they send it to? The ones that really needed to see it are the ones that probably didn't get it so it's not the AMA or FAA at fault for lack of comunication, rather the failure to use normal media(i.e. over TV and radio station news broadcasts for starters) rather than attempting to use the internet. The FAA can be faulted for using poor measures to communicate but not failing to do so while the AMA is, in this case, an innocent bystander
Nothing hypothetical about it. I asked a question based on a non-biased view of the situation. The FAA sent out a polite notice about quads in fire zones, okay I get that. The problem is how did they send it out and who did they send it to? The ones that really needed to see it are the ones that probably didn't get it so it's not the AMA or FAA at fault for lack of comunication, rather the failure to use normal media(i.e. over TV and radio station news broadcasts for starters) rather than attempting to use the internet. The FAA can be faulted for using poor measures to communicate but not failing to do so while the AMA is, in this case, an innocent bystander
Last edited by porcia83; 06-30-2016 at 04:09 AM.
06-30-2016, 03:44 AM
#3364
More planes in the airline fleets=more flights worldwide=more chances for birdstrikes so, using that rationale, more quads in the hands of people that don't know the rules+more flights in the air from all the various airlines=more chances for a drone strike with possible catastrophic results. It obviously doesn't take a PHD to figure out that as flight numbers go up as well as the number of quads in the hands of idiots, the chances of a mid-air go up exponentially
06-30-2016, 03:54 AM
#3365
Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie It was also used on the JT-8 engines used on the 737-100 and 200s in Alaska to prevent gravel and debris from being sucked into their fan blades. If the airlines are that worried about a small rock/pebble, do you think a quad is any less worrying for them, considering the cost of a turbine engine. I haven't checked yet but it wouldn't surprise me to see them on the CFM-56s used on the 300 through 900s now in service. Now, for a little more trivia, the 737 was never intended to fly off unimproved runways. The 727 was developed to do so which was why it had the three JT-8s mounted on the sides of the fuse and centerline in the tail. The plane turned out to be too heavy for many of it's planned runways so it was turned into the workhorse of many airlines passenger routes as well as being converted into a freighter flown for many years by UPS, DHL and USPS, just to name a few
Just because a rock or pebble cases damage doesn't mean that a similar impact will bring down and airliner. The engine will have expansive damage but most likely will have usable power, and even if it goes out there is at least one more engine. So I still believe it is ridiculous to ground fire fighter planes because several drones have been sighted in the area. Most likely the drones will give way and if they don't the damage will not bring the aircraft down., Damage to one engine but will most likely still have significant power. Not a great chance of fatality at all, but a large chance of someone getting burned to death if they don't operate.
Ther there are the Commercial air liners that don't even come close to the altitudes we fly 99.999% of our Toys at. Check Any Approach Plate for any Precision and most Non Precision approaches in the USA they all start at a vectoring altitude of approximately 2800' AGL and stay with in 20 miles of the FAP (Final Approach Fix) witch is normally about 5 miles from the MAP (Missed Approach Point). Then there the Light aircraft flying VFR. All are required to be at pattern altitude (1000' AGL) with in 5 miles any airport until in a position to ma a slandered approach to the runway. i.e. 1000' alt. 1/2 to 3/4 miles abeam the intend point of touchdown (The Numbers) on Down wind. That's the way I was taught. Except for on the commercial we did 1080 over ahead approaches. Well Announced and cleared at towered airports only.
Read your MA magazine Pg 103 about the thoughts of an Emergency Medical flight Pilot and Quads (DRONES)and his Very interesting outlook on Quads since he started flying them. Further more he states that his Company has raised it minimum flight altitudes with apparently no cost in operations or lives lost because of it.
06-30-2016, 04:05 AM
#3366
Looking at the time stamps I was going to ask what the heck U guys are up so early in the morning. Then I figure they must be West Costs time and we mostly live East of the Mississippi. Except for MIKET in El Paso of course. Time to SS&S head to my buddys for Coffee then out to the field for a couple of flights. One of the guys that is there any day that ends in a "Y" even rainY and windY, said he just made his 500 flight of the season and epects to break the 1000 mark early in the fall. These are all grater than 6 minutes too. Unless he fores which battery pack is the charged one. He flies mostly the same aerobatic plane on 6 cells. It's no ****ch.
See ya All later Now go fly and quit nagging/Whinning like a bunch of old ladys on the rag.
See ya All later Now go fly and quit nagging/Whinning like a bunch of old ladys on the rag.
06-30-2016, 04:11 AM
#3367
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Looking at the time stamps I was going to ask what the heck U guys are up so early in the morning. Then I figure they must be West Costs time and we mostly live East of the Mississippi. Except for MIKET in El Paso of course. Time to SS&S head to my buddys for Coffee then out to the field for a couple of flights. One of the guys that is there any day that ends in a "Y" even rainY and windY, said he just made his 500 flight of the season and epects to break the 1000 mark early in the fall. These are all grater than 6 minutes too. Unless he fores which battery pack is the charged one. He flies mostly the same aerobatic plane on 6 cells. It's no ****ch.
See ya All later Now go fly and quit nagging/Whinning like a bunch of old ladys on the rag.
See ya All later Now go fly and quit nagging/Whinning like a bunch of old ladys on the rag.
06-30-2016, 04:23 AM
#3368
It doesn't appear that you have any idea what the costs associated with that are. As you are apt to say...any armchair experts want to take a guess as to what that could cost? Mucho buckos.
A net can only be cast so wide, the message isn't going to be reached by every person out there. And, more importantly, the message will be ignored by many. At the end of the day ignorance of the law isn't an affirmative defense, so those not following the law will be dealt with accordingly.
A net can only be cast so wide, the message isn't going to be reached by every person out there. And, more importantly, the message will be ignored by many. At the end of the day ignorance of the law isn't an affirmative defense, so those not following the law will be dealt with accordingly.
A news story doesn't cost anyone anything, unlike a commercial that varies in cost by length and time of day. Think about it, you are involved in a messy car accident, the aftermath is shown on the local news. Do you receive a bill for services rendered for showing your damaged car on the local news? Have one of the anchors show the notice, read it out loud for a couple of days and it's just like getting a divorce, notification has been legally served, other than a divorce must be posted in the local news paper of the one being served.
06-30-2016, 04:54 AM
#3369
Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie It was also used on the JT-8 engines used on the 737-100 and 200s in Alaska to prevent gravel and debris from being sucked into their fan blades. If the airlines are that worried about a small rock/pebble, do you think a quad is any less worrying for them, considering the cost of a turbine engine. I haven't checked yet but it wouldn't surprise me to see them on the CFM-56s used on the 300 through 900s now in service. Now, for a little more trivia, the 737 was never intended to fly off unimproved runways. The 727 was developed to do so which was why it had the three JT-8s mounted on the sides of the fuse and centerline in the tail. The plane turned out to be too heavy for many of it's planned runways so it was turned into the workhorse of many airlines passenger routes as well as being converted into a freighter flown for many years by UPS, DHL and USPS, just to name a few
Guys Guys Guys ... As for Drones near Wild Fires. Have U ever watched any Videos of Fire Bombers being led through the smoke by a smaller plane to drop the fire retardent. Depending on Terain, Wind they end up very close to or even going right big plumes of smoke. It is not practical for a Drone to be that close if they are trying to video the operations. Not with standing they should not be there.
Ther there are the Commercial air liners that don't even come close to the altitudes we fly 99.999% of our Toys at. Check Any Approach Plate for any Precision and most Non Precision approaches in the USA they all start at a vectoring altitude of approximately 2800' AGL and stay with in 20 miles of the FAP (Final Approach Fix) witch is normally about 5 miles from the MAP (Missed Approach Point). Then there the Light aircraft flying VFR. All are required to be at pattern altitude (1000' AGL) with in 5 miles any airport until in a position to ma a slandered approach to the runway. i.e. 1000' alt. 1/2 to 3/4 miles abeam the intend point of touchdown (The Numbers) on Down wind. That's the way I was taught. Except for on the commercial we did 1080 over ahead approaches. Well Announced and cleared at towered airports only.
Read your MA magazine Pg 103 about the thoughts of an Emergency Medical flight Pilot and Quads (DRONES)and his Very interesting outlook on Quads since he started flying them. Further more he states that his Company has raised it minimum flight altitudes with apparently no cost in operations or lives lost because of it.
06-30-2016, 04:55 AM
#3370
Actually, I do know what the cost would be, $0.00
A news story doesn't cost anyone anything, unlike a commercial that varies in cost by length and time of day. Think about it, you are involved in a messy car accident, the aftermath is shown on the local news. Do you receive a bill for services rendered for showing your damaged car on the local news? Have one of the anchors show the notice, read it out loud for a couple of days and it's just like getting a divorce, notification has been legally served, other than a divorce must be posted in the local news paper of the one being served.
A news story doesn't cost anyone anything, unlike a commercial that varies in cost by length and time of day. Think about it, you are involved in a messy car accident, the aftermath is shown on the local news. Do you receive a bill for services rendered for showing your damaged car on the local news? Have one of the anchors show the notice, read it out loud for a couple of days and it's just like getting a divorce, notification has been legally served, other than a divorce must be posted in the local news paper of the one being served.
If correct, now you just need to let the FAA know how easy and inexpensive it is.
Sounds like you may work for a large company in the aviation industry with lots of employees. If that's the case, there are likely lots of non-commercial sUAS pilots employed there. Have you contacted your company's personnel dept. to see if they can forward the FAA's notice to all US based employees?
06-30-2016, 04:57 AM
#3371
See ya All later Now go fly and quit nagging/Whinning like a bunch of old ladys on the rag.
06-30-2016, 06:01 AM
#3372
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
LoL..grousing about whatever seems to be what keeps some guys at the field. I think their wives are actually happy about this even going so far as to buy the guys new planes. Keeps 'em out of the house. We have an unofficial rule at our field that there will be no discussions about politics or religion. Obviously it can't really be enforced but it keeps things civil. There are just to many people with different views and backgrounds, and passionately held positions as well. Much easier to argue about helis, 3D flying, foam versus balsa etc etc...the old standbys!
06-30-2016, 08:45 AM
#3373
Don't try to enforce the safety rules in many clubs. 4 or 5 years ago had a guy that was a great guy volunteered for every thing Took it upon him self to organize a 3 club spring banquet every spring. The problem i had with him was He was Dangerious. &5% of the time if he got his plane off the ground he'd fly right over the safety fence / Pilot stations and around back of the flight line. Have a clause in our By-Laws that states a person may file a written complaint to the board if some one is harassing U to excess. Guess I was but became close to hitting a number of pilots. Crashed In the pits behind the flight line several times. Long story short He left for a couple of years and jouined another club. Well they didn't put up with the crap and he finally learned to take orr stright down the middle of the runway. He still crashes a lot but it's either in the Corn or the runway not the pits or parking. Were friends now well Sorta.
I still think anyone that applies for the FAA Number on line should have to read and pass a short quiz on safety when flying sUAS. Furthermore should have to show or verify your FAA number to buy/Fly a sUAS any where in the USA. Giving your FAA number to a Hobby Store or even on line would be as simple as giving your Credit Card Number. There should be written warnings about the dangers of miss using sUAS (Drones) ... I think we Hashed much of this over the last few years or is it the last few Decades. I'm not good with time anymore. Anyway let's continue to continue one gives Old Gezzers a reason not to NAP so much.
I still think anyone that applies for the FAA Number on line should have to read and pass a short quiz on safety when flying sUAS. Furthermore should have to show or verify your FAA number to buy/Fly a sUAS any where in the USA. Giving your FAA number to a Hobby Store or even on line would be as simple as giving your Credit Card Number. There should be written warnings about the dangers of miss using sUAS (Drones) ... I think we Hashed much of this over the last few years or is it the last few Decades. I'm not good with time anymore. Anyway let's continue to continue one gives Old Gezzers a reason not to NAP so much.
06-30-2016, 09:15 AM
#3374
Drone Pilot busts couple having S!
Here is a switch, the drone pilot gets someone else busted instead of the other way around.
http://www.worldwideweirdnews.com/20...ery-tower.html
http://www.worldwideweirdnews.com/20...ery-tower.html
06-30-2016, 09:29 AM
#3375
Hey Guys a little help here I'd like to start a forum where people post pics of their field Post a URL to their Web Site and possibly a Google map and anything they feel might be pertenant to the post.
My problem I can't find where one starts a forum. Any help would be appreciated.
This should be a refreshing change from all the Crap we have been bickering to death for the last 100 years seems like. I know there is an RCU club roster but I'd like to see Pics of your field and a couple of captions with the pics if they are not self explanatory.
Thanks HD
Tried to post some Pics but this is all I got WHY?
[ATTACH]2170493[/IMG][ATTACH]2170494[/IMG][ATTACH]2170493[/IMG][ATTACH]2170494[/IMG][ATTACH]2170495[/IMG][ATTACH]2170496[/IMG][ATTACH]2170497[/IMG][ATTACH]2170498[/IMG][ATTACH]2170499[/IMG][ATTACH]2170500[/IMG][ATTACH]2170501[/IMG][ATTACH]2170502[/IMG][ATTACH]2170503[/IMG][ATTACH]2170504[/IMG]
My problem I can't find where one starts a forum. Any help would be appreciated.
This should be a refreshing change from all the Crap we have been bickering to death for the last 100 years seems like. I know there is an RCU club roster but I'd like to see Pics of your field and a couple of captions with the pics if they are not self explanatory.
Thanks HD
Tried to post some Pics but this is all I got WHY?
[ATTACH]2170493[/IMG][ATTACH]2170494[/IMG][ATTACH]2170493[/IMG][ATTACH]2170494[/IMG][ATTACH]2170495[/IMG][ATTACH]2170496[/IMG][ATTACH]2170497[/IMG][ATTACH]2170498[/IMG][ATTACH]2170499[/IMG][ATTACH]2170500[/IMG][ATTACH]2170501[/IMG][ATTACH]2170502[/IMG][ATTACH]2170503[/IMG][ATTACH]2170504[/IMG]