And that is the $10,000,000 question. My next question is If that group truly does accept anyone in the aviation industry, why didn't they change the name to reflect that or, better still, not include the word "black" to begin with?

I can't help but to be suspicious that this is some sort of an exclusive give away program.
I think we should know by now that it's a waste of time and money to try to bribe people's devotion to this hobby over the long haul.
You either have a built in burning desire to build and to fly these toys or you don't.

Amen to that! It is really all about white man's guilt, that is the basis of political and societal function these days, and the country will never overcome it!

You are right, init4fun. Carry on. See you in other threads.

You could find out for free, no reason to spend $10million! Contactthe group and ask them, check out their website, do a little research on whythe group was formed, ask a member!?!?! Will probably take u less time then it took u to post on this site andyou may learn something new. Thisorganization is all about up-lifting and helping and is open to all people, I can’tbelieve some people thought the organization was only limited to one race ofpeople! Are youasking questions to find out the answers or just hear someone else repeat yourtalking points?
It’s as simple asgoing outside of your preconceived notions, have an open mind and a realizationthat your life experiences are not the same as someone else’s… and that’sok!
You can’t simply understand the issue with one sentence rebuttals(or talking points); it takes an understanding of the past and the understandingof the experience someone else. If thename of the group makes you uncomfortable ask yourself why?
This entire thread is made up of people making assumptionswithout actually looking into the topic they are discussing, it’s really quitesad and I feel bad for the ignorance that is constantly presented here.
There are professional women aviation groups and I havenever heard such negativity about them, but maybe you hate them too idk? .. here are some statistics of ATP pilots inthe U.S. as of 2014
Women 4.1%
Black 2.7%
Asian 2.5%
Latino 5%
It’s impossible for the 2.7% to exclude themselves from theother 97.3% in the industry, that 2.7% has to have a great working relationshipwith all members in the industry to survive at all!!
I really wish peoplewould try to truly understand things instead of rushing to all theseconclusions..
Ignorance - lacking knowledge, information, or awareness aboutsomething in particular.

every one has a place Boy you can tell it is building season

Truly , CJ , I am not looking to offend you or anyone else . I just do think it's fair to point out the AMA's involvement with a group that has such a poorly conceived name . A name that on the surface , most certainly looks racist .

And to mugenkidd ,

You have only repeated what others in this thread have already said , and yes , their charter does claim to accept all races .

BUT !

what hasn't been answered is , just why , exactly , IS the word Black incorporated into the organization's name ?

What do you think that implies to anyone who reads that name ?

I'll tell you what , I CAN tell you ;

As I do quite often when such "judgement calls" arise , I will without presenting favoritism for either opinion , ask random people not directly connected with the situation what their view of it is . I am super lucky to have access to lots of friendly folks who don't mind sharing their opinions and before I made this thread I showed 5 people the name of the organization the AMA had just signed an agreement with . ALL 5 indicated that the word Black in the name IS racist and overshadowed any other words in the name , and that by specifically mentioning one race that the intent was to exclude all others .

To be myself called racist for pointing out such obvious racism really is a sad commentary on where we , and race relations , are headed in the years ahead . How can there really be true acceptance and equality when folks continue to build such walls between the races ?

I really would have had no problem with the "Organization of Aerospace Professionals" , , had THEY not felt the need to bring race into the arena .......

you my friend are not looking for answers.. asking 5 people similar to yourself is NOT research..

If I ask 5 Oklahomans if the OU football team is better than Texas's football team everyone in Oklahoma will agree with me, and it proves nothing!! U can have your opinion but please stop asking question you are not researching the answer to.

Research - the systematic investigation into and study of materials and sources in order to establish facts and reach new conclusions.

It's ironic that the black community struggled for so long for equality, just to segregate themselves. The equal rights movement WAS about just that, equal rights, now it's about special rights.

Since you only quoted my post and not the post I was responding to, that gave my post a completely different tone than if you had posted Init4fun's post as well. My question pertained to the use of the word "Black" in the name of the organization. I had no other issues with the organization as a whole. If you look back a few years, the Campfire Girls were sued because they didn't allow boys in as members, a case the organization lost on the basis of being gender restrictive. The name was changed to Campfire and boys are now allowed in. My question was, plain and simple, why didn't the OBAP drop the word "black" when they allowed a non African-Americans into the group? This has nothing to do with the what, who or whys of the group. It has nothing to do with being closed minded or preconceived notions either. To take this one step further, you don't know me, what I've gone through in my life or anything else about me so, if anyone has preconceived notions, it's you. You took my post and twisted its meaning into something you could attack, something that's not cool in my book

Hey Init4fun...just to appease this guy's sensitivities, how about you and I go in 50-50 and hire a Market Research company to do an exhaustive study of this matter...?

I'll bet we can get something like this done for pretty cheap, probably $5,000 or less each.
We'll need to have Mugen furnish us with his detailed demands first, though.

I just did a poll of 50 Walmart cashiers.
They all had blue tinted hair, nostril rings and various eyelid / tongue piercings for some reason, but I didn't ask why.
The results of the poll were unanimous, all 50 of them think that anyone who questions this pact between the AMA and the Black Aero-spacemen are a bunch of racists.

Exactly . Our friend AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken understands my post perfectly . To have been excluded themselves in the days of "whites only" diners and bathrooms , you'd think segregation would be the last thing they would actively participate in .

It seems that mugenkidd isn't here to do much else than call folks ignorant . The "quoting out of context" method of attack is nothing but a cheap shot and I'd hope that participants of this thread would discuss the actual facts here rather than play word games .Sorry Mugenkidd , I don't care how many times you insult the fellow posters , the FACT remains that having "Black" in the name of the organization most certainly IS racial , and not in a good way ! How you can , with a straight face , go on about how it isn't racial and how WE are racist is just the kind of twisted logic that produces names like OBAP in the first place !

Wow, someone actually supported me!
BTW, CP, does your previous post include me?

Honestly CP , I'm not looking to mess with the guy , I'm just amazed at how an organization can mention one race in it's name , and not be racist ?

Just the very mention of "Black" seeks to differentiate them from other races of aerospace professionals , and that ain't racist ?

They brought race into it ..... All I did was call out what I see as a racist name of an organization that our AMA signed an agreement with .........

I'm not sure, but many of them said that they suspected Hydro Junkie was the "Ring Leader"...!

I support people who believe the same things I do , and I don't think it was right of mugenkidd or anyone else to try to twist this to make us out to be racist . WE didn't start an organization with mention of race in it's name , and then get the AMA to go gettin all cozy with it . The OBAP did ....

Sure . With aircraft . Just like everyone else

Well said mugenkidd, you would think people would just do a research about something before they start making comments and showing their ignorance.

Yessiree.
They sure do love to chant "IGNORANT" whenever confronted with the double standards and the hypocrisy that they have been trained to "embrace" ever since they were old enough to flick on the television or get dressed for school.

Jato, where did my post show ignorance? I asked a very simple, logical and straightforward question. You're not going to find that question answered on their website or anywhere else on the WWW. I was hoping to get a constructive conversation. Instead I get told I have "preconceived notions, a closed mind and am ignorant. To this, I have a couple simple questions:
1) How can I have preconceived notions about an organization I've never heard of, even though I actually work in the aviation industry
2) How can I have a closed mind about this organization? What qualifies me as closed minded?
3) What qualifies me as being ignorant? I've seen racism first hand and been a victim thereof, been shot at for being in a military uniform in peacetime, been homeless and worked my way back into the middle class, denied federal aid because I wasn't a minority while homeless, and refused work for being affiliated with the wrong religion. Where in all of this did I become ignorant?

Ok guys, time for me to step in and explain a few things here. I am NOT going to remove this thread simply because somebody mentioned the word "black" and therefore made this a "racial" subject. Let's look at something here. This thread is here to discuss issues that regard the AMA, period. The AMA made the decision to join forces with an organization for "Black" individuals, the "Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals". Therefore discussing these matters ARE something that is open for discussion here in this forum.

Now I am receiving many, and yes I do receive MANY, PM's and report tickets making complaints about this thread simply because this thread has turning "racial" because of the mention of color. You know what, you guys are absolutely right. We need to stop discussing issues here on RCU based on the color. So from now on we won't discuss anything that is red. So there. Now more discussing any planes that have Red Paint on them. Oh yeah, don't forget about the Red Baron too. He's out, can't mention his name either because that would be out. After that I think we're going to outlaw camouflage. So any planes that have that pattern in them will be out.

Have we tripped down the ridiculous road far enough yet guys?? You get my point yet?? There is no reason that some people can ask questions concerning skin color and the AMA. As long as those questions are made in a respectable manner I have no problems. However, if there are insults or comments made that are out of line in regards of skin color, those will be removed. And we have already done that with several posts. But as far as killing this entire thread, you guys know me better than that by now. I try to let any legitimate AMA discussion run here in this forum because that is what this forum is for, to discuss the AMA and what is going on with it. And considering everything going in with the AMA, and the FAA, right now I think that it's very important that there is a place that we can come together to discuss these issues.

So let's keep the discussion on a respectable level guys and we won't have any issues here. Ok??

Ken

Many good comments have been made - as well as some not so. But you all missed the main point. The reason AMA is getting in bed with this or any other group: Membership!
Membership X Dues: MONEY!
Maybe we will even gain some unexpected benefits from this union. Maybe we will see some real Model Aviation material in the magazine by that name, instead of a drone catalog like the December issue.

Regardless of the color of your skin, you can always find others like you, to enjoy model aircraft or whatever. Me, I am Hispanic AND a Mode One flyer. I am all alone, I am a SIG all by myself.

Thank You Ken .

I really did start this thread with the intention of discussing if , and if so , why , was the AMA so shortsighted as to collaborate with an organization with a patently racist name . I was not really expecting the reaction of being called a racist myself for pointing out a mistake our organization made by aligning with a group with a racially based name . As I have already stated , the very mention of race in an area where race has no business being mentioned can only be seen as what , Inclusive ? Am I supposed to feel welcomed by an organization that states right in their name that this is a "Black" organization ? I believe we are all equal and folks who put up such walls as the OBAP have with their name are doing far more damage to race relations than they realize , And no one in the AMA thought to realize that by naming a race in their name , the OBAP was practicing the very kind of discrimination that has NO place in a modern society looking to put racial discord to the back of the history books where it belongs ?

Well stated. This could have been a simple non color issue, but by the very name itself you cannot avoid it. Looking at the name again: "Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals" Now if we just change it to "Organization of Aerospace Professionals" it takes the color card out of it. AMA has got blinders on.