franklin_m

That would have to happen once, be on the front page that is, for us to know for sure...

franklin_m

Another participation trophy!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Oh I think it's a safe bet it would be criticized even then.

I remember when they had the op-ed piece in this countries most popular newspaper, USA Today. Even that wasn't enough.

But anyway...are you going to answer my question or no?

Originally Posted by franklin_m
As for the AMA's lawsuit, they're already zero for one in filings. In October 2010 they filed motion in opposition to Council on Governmental Relations request to hold their case against FAA and all others (AMA's) in abeyance. Judge ruled against them.


So should they have not done this? Is the outcome always guaranteed in litigation?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

No worries, we'll get you a "best effort" trophy for your flying site grant application you never submitted. Remember, it's the thought that counts.

indycustombikes

My Feedback: (11)

You have to be licensed to drive, yet you have to register the car separately, in the event of a circumstance, they must prove by witness WHO was the operator to proceed. And So again I ask, are people being registered or aircraft? and no one can definitively answer this question based on the wording, making the ruling jibberish!
In the example you give above, the owner of the car is primarily responsible for any property damage or injuries caused by the operation of it (with rare exception). The driver issue is secondary, for possible criminal issues, as well as maybe having insurance of their own. License and reg are done for different reasons (ie Taxes! )

I know from personal experience involving my vehicle, a house, and a friend that borrowed said vehicle. that you are incorrect. you are not responsible financially or otherwise for something another person did with your vehicle without your knowledge. it must first be proven you were negligent. in my case homeowners ins paid for repairs to the persons property, and my auto paid for my car...... no legal charges stuck because the operator could not be proven to be the operator.

. There has only been one suit filed after the announcement, and it doesn't really address the wording of the registration process or the ambiguity of it. The complaint alleged the FAA is overstepping it's boundaries as defined by congress and is promulgating rules that they are not allowed to. It's almost a mirror action as that filed by the AMA previously. There is no law per se that the language in the registration be perfectly clear to all, just to the standard that an average person would read and understand (usually a standard set by courts). I've got to imagine every word, even commas etc were cross checked 10 ways from Sunday by the room fulls of attorneys they have on staff. They had to so something to justify their salaries, and they don't get to bill by the hour, minute etc.

I disagree in that the actual wording IS the reason FAA is being sued for overstepping its boundaries, and I also believe its not written so as to be easily understood by anyone to any standard, it is very confusing.

I suppose we can argue semantics all day, we will see in the end I guess.

franklin_m

(1) OpEd is not front page. And one OpEd on an issue that's so fundamental to the organization. Wow. Impressive.
(2) Should they not have done this? Doesn't matter. I merely commented that they did and lost.
(3) Is the outcome always guaranteed in litigation? No, but again, they tried and lost.

franklin_m

I don't collect millions a year from my members...big difference

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

When people in these agencies have to get together in a room and hash out the meaning of simple words like "and" versus "in addition" and "additionally", ya...its easy to why a document that could be 2 or 3 pages turns into 200.

Ya, we'll eventually see. A judge is going to have to wade through some boring reading to get to what is hopefully a good decision for us.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

LoL...you are too much sometimes.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

No difference, it's not about the money, it's about integrity. It wouldn't have cost you anything (well, maybe the cost of a a stamp) to submit your Flying Site Grant Application your club so desperately needed. Yet, in the moment of choice, you neglected to do so and the club failed.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

I'll say, he's certainly quite innovative in the creative hating arena. He's got a very bright future ahead of him in politics.

Sport_Pilot

So they would want a major media company at the AMA expo.

franklin_m

I spoke personally on the phone with the AMA's site development head and he told me point blank "You can submit a request, but it will be denied." Now maybe you're in the business of wasting time, I am not. Maybe you have the time to waste on efforts that are clearly not going to bear fruit, I do not. One of the key things of leading large organizations that I learned is knowing when to cut your losses. I spoke with the head AMA guy on the issue and he told me it was a non starter. I decided it was not worth further effort on that line of strategy, so I cut my losses.

If you want to continue working an issue after you've been denied, go ahead. I just value my time more than that.

franklin_m

Well, they don't need to, but then EC members don't have a right to complain about why the media doesn't pick up on their side of the story. First, they have to be there to pick up on it. Second, they have to view it as credible.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Are you going to show the full e-mail where the "AMA" complains, or just one line? Your expectations of what the AMA needs to do seem impossible to meet on any level.

rgburrill

By law ALL aircraft must be registered, not all pilots. Some pilots, yes, but not all. The FAA, at the request of the AMA and others decided that many, if not most, model aircraft fliers had multiple airplanes but, in general, could only fly one at a time. Therefore, to make it easier and cheaper on those fliers the FAA chose to require only one registration that would be applied to all the aircraft the flier had. That is still registration of one or more aircraft, not a person.
And to repeat for the umteenth time, this is NOT a new law, it is merely enforcing an old one that used to be ignored.

rgburrill

OMG, would you stop with all the AMA crap! We are all getting sick of it.

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

Yep, some may be too much some of the time as someone stated earlier, but there's clearly two here that are too much all of the time.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

me and you? That makes two!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

You're right here in the mix of all the AMA crap...what makes you so special? Use the ignore function or just exert some self control and go on by if you won't like what I have to say. Stop talking about the AMA in the AMA forum. That's rich! Funny, I don't recall anyone complaining about LCS when he was posting up nonstop with the anti AMA stuff.

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

Ah progress atlast, it is pleasing to see that you accept you are wearing one of those hats.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Here's a funny e-mail I just got. Gotta give this guy some credit, he talks about myths and goes right into saying the FAA site has been compromised with data leaks. To funny. Oh, and after his read on the whole FAA debacle, he wants to give you a 20% off coupon to visit his site and buy his gliders. Hey, at least he's trying to make a buck off the deal, so kudos!

[h=3]FAA In Lame Attempt To Save Us From Drones & Ourselves[/h] If In a sad attempt to make the skies in the US safe from Unmanned Air Vehicles, the FAA proclaimed that all RC air vehicle pilots must now register and get a unique ID number that must written on or inside any and all RC vehicles said pilot owns. Obviously this registration paranoia comes from the explosion of autonomous drones and FPV aircraft and the untrained masses flying said machines in airspace shared by full size aircraft. I'm not going to get into the politics and minutia of the new regulations, but I am a firm opponent of unnecessary regulation written hastily that effects thousands of hobbyists and modelers in the US who have safely flown in shared airspace for may years. This registration also goes against current laws already in place.

You can go on RC groups and read the banter back and forth about the regs and if the AMA will step in to help modelers and if one should register or not. I've done some research on this whole debacle and here are some of my thoughts.

First, don't go and register yourself yet. AMA suggests not registering now as the regs are vague and already lawsuits are being filed. The FAA site is not secure, and there have been data leaks and site snafus. Records are PUBLIC!

FAA regs suggest flying under 400 feet AGL, but make you check a box stating that you will not fly over 400'. I call bull..... FACT: There is no 400' limit. Flying near an airport, yes 400' suggested. If you are an AMA member, you can fly as you always have, and I suggest that you become a member of the AMA if you are not. While their power is small, they have worked and are working with the FAA over these regs. You may get to use your AMA # as your official reg. #. All contests will be flown as they always have, no altitude limit.

The FAA is an understaffed, underfunded agency (ask any pilot of the FAAs effectiveness) and they have tasked local law enforcement with enforcing any infractions. The FAA will not be tracking your plane or altitude, they can't. Fly a drone over the city or around an airport and full size traffic, that's another deal. Local LE does not have the time to chase rc planes for reg #'s. Mess around and endanger people or property, might be another story. None of us glider guys is going to prison or get a 25k fine for not registering. This is just another bad not-well-thought out government solution to a small potential problem, much like the theater of the TSA trying to prevent terrorism at airports.

I'm all for civil disobedience on this one, I'm not registering until absolutely necessary. Registering will do NOTHING to improve safety. The regs will be changed, they are too stupid to stand. I will be flying as high as I want as long as I can be safe. Don't Panic, just fly as usual. E-mail me privately with any comments.

init4fun

I say this in all honesty , and not just to contradict for contradiction's sake ;

I never saw LCS' posts as being "Anti AMA" . The guy posted about things the AMA did that he didn't like , but I never recall once him posting that the AMA itself was worthless or any other wording that could be considered an indictment of the entire organization . I can not , and will not , call anyone "anti AMA" for being dissatisfied with one aspect or another of the way things are run ! When folks see something they don't like , in an organization they support , they have every right to voice their concerns and I'm kinda surprised to see you , who regularly speaks out about "labels" , go labeling someone as being "Anti AMA" for voicing his opinion on certain aspects of an organization he's otherwise always seemed proud to belong to .

TFF

What makes registering wrong in the normal world of the FAA is this, to have an FAA license you have to be tested and pass. It is a license to do under FAA rules; fly, mechanic, pack parachutes, whatever. This is a head count; this is being singled out. There is no other reason. Head counts in history have not been favorable to the counted.