While AMA talks, FAA acts...
01-22-2019 | 05:47 AM
#327
So, if that is the case, did they say anything about why we don't see a response from them? They can get a membership in the forum just as easy as anyone else can. It would be nice to see how they would defend some of their actions and wasteful spending practices. You would think that, with:
- membership declining
- funds in the treasury declining
- membership applications received declining
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-22-2019 at 05:55 AM.
01-22-2019 | 05:57 AM
#328
Banned
A thread between say Franklin and a rep from the EC would be interesting. But too many people from both sides wouldn't respect it and would chime in with their babble and basically destroy what could have been a good discussion.
Actually keeping their distance on these forums is probably one of the smartest moves to come out of Muncie in a good many years.
Last edited by Appowner; 01-22-2019 at 06:00 AM.
01-22-2019 | 06:03 AM
#329
Banned
.................................................. ..You would think that, with:
- membership declining
- funds in the treasury declining
- membership applications received declining
01-22-2019 | 06:08 AM
#330
Banned
Regarding the budget vote, I'd like to see every member of the EC questioned as to what they voted. And then asked to explain why in light of what the CFO said?
But they won't. Secrecy is their watchword. And I doubt there are enough members willing to put on the pressure for answers.
Bah! Bah! Bah!
But they won't. Secrecy is their watchword. And I doubt there are enough members willing to put on the pressure for answers.
Bah! Bah! Bah!
01-22-2019 | 06:28 AM
#331
1) It would become a dog pile and probably do far more harm to the Hobby than it would help. There are some DVPs and such who participate and make their status known. And in so doing, having to stick to the party line all the time they fail miserably in defending anything AMA. IMHO.
2) A thread between say Franklin and a rep from the EC would be interesting. But too many people from both sides wouldn't respect it and would chime in with their babble and basically destroy what could have been a good discussion.
3) Actually keeping their distance on these forums is probably one of the smartest moves to come out of Muncie in a good many years.
2) A thread between say Franklin and a rep from the EC would be interesting. But too many people from both sides wouldn't respect it and would chime in with their babble and basically destroy what could have been a good discussion.
3) Actually keeping their distance on these forums is probably one of the smartest moves to come out of Muncie in a good many years.
1) You could be right but, and this is a very big BUT, IF the powers that be really want the support of the members, let them tell us what's going on in a respectful, rather than condescending, way and see what happens. Obviously, there are going to be a few that will attack anything said but, if the DVP or EC member gives us legit answers rather than spouting the party line, I think a majority would be respectful in return. I think that's part of the issue here between some of us and Speed. He's trying to defend the AMA and the party line while the home office and officials are doing everything they can to hide the truth and undermine everything he says.
2) I have to agree but, if the rest of us can keep the babblers from killing the conversation, it could be actually very informative.
3) Not really. I see Muncie's silence as a way to keep everything secret so the membership can't protest what Muncie is doing. I've found that an informed membership is normally one that will not just back an organization but will work with the powers that be to attain a goal
01-22-2019 | 07:06 AM
#332
Banned
Let me respond by the number I assigned to your comments:
1) You could be right but, and this is a very big BUT, IF the powers that be really want the support of the members, let them tell us what's going on in a respectful, rather than condescending, way and see what happens. Obviously, there are going to be a few that will attack anything said but, if the DVP or EC member gives us legit answers rather than spouting the party line, I think a majority would be respectful in return. I think that's part of the issue here between some of us and Speed. He's trying to defend the AMA and the party line while the home office and officials are doing everything they can to hide the truth and undermine everything he says.
2) I have to agree but, if the rest of us can keep the babblers from killing the conversation, it could be actually very informative.
3) Not really. I see Muncie's silence as a way to keep everything secret so the membership can't protest what Muncie is doing. I've found that an informed membership is normally one that will not just back an organization but will work with the powers that be to attain a goal
1) You could be right but, and this is a very big BUT, IF the powers that be really want the support of the members, let them tell us what's going on in a respectful, rather than condescending, way and see what happens. Obviously, there are going to be a few that will attack anything said but, if the DVP or EC member gives us legit answers rather than spouting the party line, I think a majority would be respectful in return. I think that's part of the issue here between some of us and Speed. He's trying to defend the AMA and the party line while the home office and officials are doing everything they can to hide the truth and undermine everything he says.
2) I have to agree but, if the rest of us can keep the babblers from killing the conversation, it could be actually very informative.
3) Not really. I see Muncie's silence as a way to keep everything secret so the membership can't protest what Muncie is doing. I've found that an informed membership is normally one that will not just back an organization but will work with the powers that be to attain a goal
#3 I see their silence more as damage control than anything else. The membership should be informed and Muncie should be transparent to them. But not to the general population. And therein lies the problem. How to properly inform the members while keeping non-members out of AMA business? The magazine could be the solution but they seem to prefer using it as a propaganda tool.
01-22-2019 | 07:44 AM
#333
I see your points but still think I'm right on #1. The key is mutual respect and based on what I've seen, that doesn't exist. I've seen AVPs appear in another forum and what I describe is what usually happens.
#3 I see their silence more as damage control than anything else. The membership should be informed and Muncie should be transparent to them. But not to the general population. And therein lies the problem. How to properly inform the members while keeping non-members out of AMA business? The magazine could be the solution but they seem to prefer using it as a propaganda tool.
#3 I see their silence more as damage control than anything else. The membership should be informed and Muncie should be transparent to them. But not to the general population. And therein lies the problem. How to properly inform the members while keeping non-members out of AMA business? The magazine could be the solution but they seem to prefer using it as a propaganda tool.
3) IF they weren't so secretive, they wouldn't need to worry about damage control to begin with. Now, with that said, I do agree, some things shouldn't be put out to the general population. Financial statements and anything that has to do with the government should be kept to generalizations at most but, at the same time, that information should be given to the members and, to that end, the magazine isn't going to cut it. A monthly email, sent out within the first week of the month preferably, to all members would do so very nicely. It would be free and wouldn't take much time to type up. If the members don't want it or care, they could "opt out" and not receive it. As far as how to put out other information, a quarterly e-magazine would cover that, along the lines of this:
October 2018 web.pub
01-22-2019 | 08:52 AM
#334
Banned
1) I have to agree, it's going to be a mutual respect deal. That is something we in the forum would need to police ourselves and I honestly don't see that happening, not to the degree required anyway. Then again, IF the AMA rep comes across as "holier that thou" in any way, it would become open season on that person and, IMO, deservedly so
3) IF they weren't so secretive, they wouldn't need to worry about damage control to begin with. Now, with that said, I do agree, some things shouldn't be put out to the general population. Financial statements and anything that has to do with the government should be kept to generalizations at most but, at the same time, that information should be given to the members and, to that end, the magazine isn't going to cut it. A monthly email, sent out within the first week of the month preferably, to all members would do so very nicely. It would be free and wouldn't take much time to type up. If the members don't want it or care, they could "opt out" and not receive it. As far as how to put out other information, a quarterly e-magazine would cover that, along the lines of this:
October 2018 web.pub
3) IF they weren't so secretive, they wouldn't need to worry about damage control to begin with. Now, with that said, I do agree, some things shouldn't be put out to the general population. Financial statements and anything that has to do with the government should be kept to generalizations at most but, at the same time, that information should be given to the members and, to that end, the magazine isn't going to cut it. A monthly email, sent out within the first week of the month preferably, to all members would do so very nicely. It would be free and wouldn't take much time to type up. If the members don't want it or care, they could "opt out" and not receive it. As far as how to put out other information, a quarterly e-magazine would cover that, along the lines of this:
October 2018 web.pub
01-22-2019 | 11:11 AM
#335
01-22-2019 | 04:27 PM
#336
Thread Starter
BTW, I’ve offered more than once to come visit and do assessment of their organization - I do business performance improvement for a living. I offered to do it pro bono, just pay travel. Heard nothing but crickets in response.
01-22-2019 | 09:50 PM
#338
I very seriously doubt that. They just don't want to have to answer the pointed questions that Franklin would ask them to be, in fact, asked. It would mean that they would have to reveal information that they are trying to keep secret from everyone, both members and non-members
01-23-2019 | 03:34 AM
#340
Banned
I very seriously doubt that. They just don't want to have to answer the pointed questions that Franklin would ask them to be, in fact, asked. It would mean that they would have to reveal information that they are trying to keep secret from everyone, both members and non-members
Now that the CFO raised a flag, watch for his "resignation" sometime this year.
01-23-2019 | 06:00 AM
#341
Don't you mean "forced resignation"(AKA termination) within the next few months? We all know that admitting there is a problem is the same as calling out the system and that just can't be allowed in a "GOB" organization
01-23-2019 | 06:12 AM
#342
My Feedback: (34)
O.K. I'm lost (on the AMA website).....where do I find the minutes of the board meetings? And yes, I am an AMA member....
Never mind....I finally found it: https://www.modelaircraft.org/execut...018-ec-minutes....
Never mind....I finally found it: https://www.modelaircraft.org/execut...018-ec-minutes....
Last edited by tailskid; 01-23-2019 at 06:19 AM.
01-23-2019 | 07:05 AM
#345
Banned
I had hoped my quotes implied the forced. Then again, there's forced and then there's FORCED. I have no doubt pressure for him to leave will be applied. But how much? And yes, I could see it all happening in the next few months. But since the EC "IS" aware of these forums and what's said in them, do you think they'd be so obvious knowing it would get discussed here?
01-23-2019 | 07:09 AM
#346
Thread Starter
I very seriously doubt that. They just don't want to have to answer the pointed questions that Franklin would ask them to be, in fact, asked. It would mean that they would have to reveal information that they are trying to keep secret from everyone, both members and non-members
Think of the cost of dragging a trailer full of that stuff all over the country. Gas costs alone are significant. Now add hotels, food, and perdiem for the folks driving the vehicle and pulling the trailer. Since they’re still doing it, they’ve obviously not sold it all, and yet they keep spending money to drag it around the nation. In fact, I wonder if they’re losing money once they add up all the costs.
My point is that if this is an example of how they think about spending member’s dollars, then no wonder the CFO is ringing the alarm bell!
01-23-2019 | 07:55 AM
#347
Now there's your mistake. The way they like to spend our money, you should have made a demand of a six figure consulting fee. lol
01-23-2019 | 12:39 PM
#349
Banned
What does it cost to go get it in the first place? What's the cost of the truck and trailer? Storage costs? Expenses for the people dragging it all around? And so on.
Now, how much has all this stuff brought in?
I don't think they need the services of someone like Franklin. I think they need an FBI Audit.
01-23-2019 | 03:32 PM
#350
Thread Starter
Assuming a generous 25 miles per gallon hauling a trailer, that’s 168 gallons of gas. At a very reasonable cost of $2.25 a gallon, that’s at LEAST $375 in gas alone. Assume $10 for each meal, there’s another $140. And lastly, 4 nights in a hotel at a generously low $75 a night is $300 more. So just dragging that stuff to Pomona cost at least $800 in direct costs ... JUST for that single trip. Now add four days of perdiem, and it’s even higher. That’s real money. If they sold less than that, the trip lost money.
Now add all the costs for all the other sites where they’ve hauled it. The costs adds up ... quickly. If this isn’t cash positive, including costs fo people, they need to stop doing it. It’s just wasting money.
Last edited by franklin_m; 01-23-2019 at 03:35 PM.
