astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

see post above regarding trolls.

Astro

ECHO24

Here's an enforcement question for you. Not long ago a Fresno County Sherriff's helicopter encountered a 5" flying wing over a neighborhood. They followed it
till it landed. They landed the chopper, confiscated the flying wing, located the operator (who was flying FPV from inside his house) and turned it over to the FAA.

What regulation were they enforcing?

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Found the story here. https://www.fresnosheriff.org/media-...its-drone.html


Astro is going to hold his ground on this one. From what I gathered from the earlier nonsense is that he feels enforcement comes when the FAA decides the action taken against the violator.

Some people ( myself included ) feel that enforcement begins at the Point of Contact by a law enforcement officer. I for one can simply see this as a difference of opinion and let it go, others can’t/won’t.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

quote from the article
"Deputies are forwarding a report of this incident to the FAA and it will be up to that agency to determine if a fine or punishment is necessary.'

IT WOULD SEEM THAT ASTRO IS CORRECT ABOUT ENFORCEMENT.

now,
now that said, the officers are perfectly within their rights to observe a possible unsafe operation/situation, and take whatever action deemed necessary to make it a safe situation. such action does not come under the heading of enforcement.

oh yeah, from the pix, it appears to be a much larger than 5 inch(") wing. more like 5 foot(').

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Mongo, just where does this definition of enforcement come from? They confiscated the guy’s equipment, how can that not be called enforcement? This is what I was able to find.
Law enforcement is the activity of some members of government who act in an organized manner to enforce the law by discovering, deterring, rehabilitating, or punishing people who violate the rules and norms governing that society.[1] The term encompasses police, courts, and corrections. These three components may operate independently of each other or collectively, through the use of record sharing and mutual cooperation.

Modern state legal codes use the term peace officer, or law enforcement officer, to include every person vested by the legislating state with police power or authority, traditionally, anyone "sworn or badged, who can arrest any person for a violation of criminal law, is included under the umbrella term of law enforcement.

Although law enforcement may be most concerned with the prevention and punishment of crimes, organizations exist to discourage a wide variety of non-criminal violations of rules and norms, effected through the imposition of less severe consequences such as probation.

ECHO24

Typo. Should have read 5 foot. The point here is local law enforcement are authorized to intervene. As to what happens after is irrelevant.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

For all of you who say that you are, "able to leave it alone" but keep trying to justify your opinions, I'll post the definitive word from the FAA one more time......

"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."

Not sure how this can be interpreted any other way, but I'm sure y'all will keep trying!

Astro

ECHO24

Model aircraft are just a prop. If it was a quilting forum you'd be banging on about quilting standards. Your real hobby is being an internet gasbag.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

More projection from those that can't accept facts. SAD.

Astro

ECHO24

Typical troll comment. A dodge meant to deflect, the very definition of a gasbag

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, that is exactly what YOUR comment was, mine simply called you out for it. BIG difference!

Are you guys truly so sick in the head that you think you are right? Such tender little toy-airplane egos that you can't admit being wrong? And that your playground projections of your own actions on to me are not completely transparent to everybody but yourselves? SAD.

Astro

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I see where you ignored the definition of law enforcement that I posted. The definition clearly included detection, deterrence. Those happen at POC with LEO at the scene. Again, we differ in opinion because we can both find supporting information of enforcement at both points. In this case of the FPV wing, if the Fresno Sheriff Department had no jurisdiction to enforce FAA law, the confiscation of equipment would have been deemed illegal, yes?

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Interesting, you claim to know what everybody thinks but we are the ones sick in the head. Please expand on these abilities to know the mindset of “everybody”.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Every reasonable participant here that does not suffer from cognitive dissonance, is interested in facts and reality, is literate enough to comprehend written english and is actually mature enough to admit they were wrong.

Init and Mongo (both of whom were initially on the fence) see it.

All I have done is support my statements with facts. You and the rest of the court jesters have continued to double-down and dig your heels in, resorting to your usual tactics of baseless name-calling, obfuscations and fantastical false equivalencies hoping, in some kind of odd way, that you preserve your imagined “reputation” in a toy airplane forum.

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Interesting, you choose to acknowledge my statements, but not those of your minions instead of simply acknowledging you were incorrect, despite your claims of being the one capable of moving on. I’ll just add that to the long and growing list of your lies and obfuscations.

Astro

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

What lies? Please show an example.

Hydro Junkie

IF I read and remember the article correctly, the Police vehicle was almost hit by the R/C which was, by definition, being flown illegally. The pilot was flying it FPV over a residential area and at over 550 feet. The article pretty much showed the police helicopter and ground officers had all they needed to take the action they did. Unlike the other case, with a CHP plane and ground officers basically harassing R/C pilots at a flying field, on this one, I have to agree with the Police actions

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Hydro, correct. However those things you mention are FAA laws. In this case the Fresno Sheriffs Department took action and confiscated his equipment. I certainly view that as a form of enforcement. To summarize to this point we have:


Two cases where LEO took action on alleged FAA violations.

An email from the FAA UAS department stating “ yes “ LEO can enforce in a general fashion.

It seems our issue is when is the term “ enforcement “ is first applicable. Is it during the first contact by LEO or is it at prosecution/issuance of fine?

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

What I see is you desperately trying to remain relevant and avoid admitting you are wrong.

This is not about opinions, it is about context. This entire discussion started over the statement I made that the FAA is the sole entity that has the power to enforce FAA rules. This statement is as true today as it was when I made it, despite the many pages of obfuscations made by you and your minions.

The reason I ignored your definition of enforcement is because it does not fit the context of our discussion. It doesn’t state WHOSE rules they enforce, which is the real issue originally being debated. Casually speaking, the term enforcement could include some actions taken by LEO’s. Technically, once the FAA has looked at all the evidence in a particular case and enforced their rules with a judgement, local LE COULD conceivably be held legally responsible for their actions if it were determined by the FAA that no infractions had occurred.

I’ve already acknowledged that local LEO’s can and do assist the FAA from time to time (many pages ago), for you to claim you are over it, yet continue on and on over the term enforcement proves you are not. That is your lie.

The more you type here, the more you look the fool.

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."

for the umpteenth time, this FAA statement is very clear that they are the sole agency empowered with enforcement of their rules. That statement also determines that they consider enforcement as being at the time a judgement is made, as they already acknowledged that they work with local LE to gather info.

If I am arrested and detained for a crime for which I am found innocent, which law was enforced?

In this country we are innocent until found guilty. Enforcement happens at judgement.

Unlike the kangaroo court run by you, prop and echo….

Astro

ECHO24

I called the Fresno Co Sheriffs Office when it happened. There was no "safety" or local law aspect. It was entirely an FAA/drone eforcement.

init4fun

Ok guys, this sentence right here has, in my opinion, won the point for Astro. Especially the "Enforcement happens at judgement" part. Even though the LEO has participated in the process, the LEO has no powers to inflict judgement (Unless he's "Dirty Harry" or "Mad Max", of course , , , Kidding! just kidding ) . I do believe the varying interpretations of "Enforcement" are at the root of this disagreement, but when enforcement is coupled with judgement, it is clearly stated by the FAA that they and only they may pass judgement upon infractions of their rules (laws) .

Maybe now we can all get to fighting about the Supreme Court's recent rulings ......

ECHO24

Sorry but you are inventing a definition. A cop writing a ticket is "enforcing" traffic laws whatever the final disposition of the case. It might even be dismissed

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Apparently, you have no filter for context and are completely blinded by your desperate attempt to be “right”. Exactly the things that you tried to project onto me.

The cognitive bias runs so deep in these threads that logic and facts don’t seem to matter. SAD.

Astro

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, but when a LEO issues a ticket, he ALWAYS states, “This is not an admission of guilt, just a notice that you have a right to appear in front of a judge”. Not enforcement whatsoever. He is nothing more than a playground monitor.

Astro