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Flite test ez remote identification

Old 07-25-2023, 09:25 AM
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Dick T.
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Default Flite test ez remote identification

Press Release: Flite Test EZ Remote Identification | Flite Test

Appears Flite Test has been proactive in the arena.
Old 07-25-2023, 11:12 AM
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speedracerntrixie
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So the CBO that told everyone that they could submit a FRIA application for their backyard or local park/schoolyard directly to the FAA were developing their own RID module the whole time?
Old 07-25-2023, 12:06 PM
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Dick T.
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In addition to the info you mentioned, appears they moved to cover all the bases.
That is a tad more info and activity than AMA produced.

At this time 100% of my flying will be at a FRIA. But having a RID in the flight box for a possible opportune moment is my choice.

A lot of fellows spitting out YouTube videos saying they "ain't gonna do it" may unnecessarily influence newcomers to the hobby. But, like it or not, it will be the rule for immediate future. It may die a legislative death or one of non-enforcement. Until then the noisy ones can test the FAA but I will comply and go enjoy flying.
Old 07-25-2023, 12:20 PM
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We have been actively testing and evaluating modules, advising manufacturers on what members want as far as features and what we feel they will be willing to pay but as a 501c we are not, nor do we have any business being in the manufacturing sector

Further, while you call it proactive, many (most?) members would have a fit if the AMA started selling these or partnering with a manufacturer. Heck someone went ape when a simple paid ad from a manufacturer showed up in Model Aviation.

I too find it amusing that they have been preaching FRIA's for everyone's back yard at the same time getting ready to make money by selling modules. That's their business though, whatever works for them.

Horizon (who I fully expected to come out with one) just announced a sub 100 dollar module that will be available by compliance date via the Spektrum brand.
Old 07-25-2023, 12:34 PM
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This is not surprising,, why would you want to be stuck flying at only a FRIA site, for example I go to Float Flies and many different lakes, there is very little chance those locations are going to get FRIAs because they are not permanent club locations
Old 07-25-2023, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
This is not surprising,, why would you want to be stuck flying at only a FRIA site, for example I go to Float Flies and many different lakes, there is very little chance those locations are going to get FRIAs because they are not permanent club locations
The Clark County WA. Club has filed for two FRIAs, one for the main site and another for the lake site where the hold 3-4 float fly’s a year. No word yet on approvals.
Old 07-27-2023, 11:58 AM
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Dick T.
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
We have been actively testing and evaluating modules, advising manufacturers on what members want as far as features and what we feel they will be willing to pay but as a 501c we are not, nor do we have any business being in the manufacturing sector

Further, while you call it proactive, many (most?) members would have a fit if the AMA started selling these or partnering with a manufacturer. Heck someone went ape when a simple paid ad from a manufacturer showed up in Model Aviation.

I too find it amusing that they have been preaching FRIA's for everyone's back yard at the same time getting ready to make money by selling modules. That's their business though, whatever works for them.

Horizon (who I fully expected to come out with one) just announced a sub 100 dollar module that will be available by compliance date via the Spektrum brand.
I make the AMA comment only because AMA always appears to be tight lipped about most everything. Yes, I have read comments where they are testing and evaluating RID's but has any information been made available to members anywhere? Would be nice to know who is working on RID modules and what progress is being made. Instead we learn Flite Test has one and they get chastised for it.

AMA does not need to be in the RID business as you mentioned. However for someone to get upset over RID's being advertised in the magazine illustrates they don't understand advertising revenue. Others carp about operating costs for the magazine then some whining about a revenue generating advertisement is pretty stupid.

Flight Test actively promotes the hobby, probably better than anyone, and sells product in doing so. Adding their own RID is a natural progression to their business model. Futaba has one coming (pictured in another post) plus Spektrum as mentioned. It is unlikely we will see modules under $80-$100 as talking pundits created that price range so manufacturers will follow suit.

I see in some club newsletters that FRIA approvals are trickling out but at this pace many club sites will be non-compliant at deadline. Going to be tough for FAA to enforce rules awaiting their blessings.

Gone are the days when you could enjoy an unencumbered hobby.
Old 07-30-2023, 04:15 PM
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I would like to make my backyard site a FRIA but from what I have read, only clubs and schools can get them authorized.
Old 07-31-2023, 03:14 AM
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That's correct
Old 07-31-2023, 08:46 AM
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This is awesome! FliteTest has superb market exposure given their huge audience - over 2 MILLION subscribers on YT alone!

Even at $100, that's a one time cost that's still less than what it would cost me (and likely many others) EVERY YEAR for access to FRIAs. Given that most people make somewhat rational financial decisions with scarce resources, this has great potential to be the option of choice for a whole lot of people.
Old 07-31-2023, 10:23 AM
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While I agree that a $100 module will be appealing to some, let’s look at this a bit more realistically. First off I wouldn’t call it a one time expense. Equipment failures/crashes do happen. Some will want more than one aircraft module equipped as a convenience of not having to switch modules around between flights of 2 or 3 aircraft. Since FT is aimed at getting youth involved in the hobby ( this I applaud ) perhaps the cost should also be compared to the cost of a youth joining a FRIA. AMA $15 , average club cost $20 to $50. Add in the access to instructors/mentors and a FRIA looks to be a better option for some.

Old 07-31-2023, 11:25 AM
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While a $25 - $35 price for RID modules would be ideal, it isn't likely to happen. Manufacturers will get all they can since we are now in a position to (1) fly only at a FRIA, (2) buy RID modules or (3) ignore the requirement altogether.

For now, the plus/minus $100 price point will be the standard.

Radio manufacturers will likely build RID into high cost receivers where and additional $50 price hike can easily be justified. Low cost not likely so the profit margin slides over to external RID modules.

A lot of folks will just go with number (3) above. I hope not. If FAA monitors compliance and sees this route, tougher rules may follow.
Old 07-31-2023, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
While I agree that a $100 module will be appealing to some, let’s look at this a bit more realistically. First off I wouldn’t call it a one time expense. Equipment failures/crashes do happen. Some will want more than one aircraft module equipped as a convenience of not having to switch modules around between flights of 2 or 3 aircraft. Since FT is aimed at getting youth involved in the hobby ( this I applaud ) perhaps the cost should also be compared to the cost of a youth joining a FRIA. AMA $15 , average club cost $20 to $50. Add in the access to instructors/mentors and a FRIA looks to be a better option for some.
(1) Please provide data source supporting the statement "average club cost $20 to $50"

(2) FT appears to be more than able to get people flying w/o "instructors/mentors", so I don't know that access to a club provides as much value as you want everyone to believe.

(3) You neglect the cost in time, fuel, and carbon footprint to travel to a FRIA site. It's 13 miles one way to the nearest club from me. Whether that's typical or not, I have no idea. Some in Montana / Wyoming, etc. have to travel much farther. Back to my example though, my wife's car gets about 25mpg across that route (most fuel efficient we own), so that's about a gallon per round trip. At $3.79 a gallon for flex fuel, once a week, times 52 weeks a year, that's $197. Ok, maybe they don't go every week, let's say every other, so let's call it $98 a year in fuel, which has to be added to the cost of the FRIA option. Which is now $15 (AMA) plus ($25 - $100 for club) plus $98 (fuel) for a range of $138 to $213 (or more depending on gas) ... EVERY YEAR! Add to that the time impact (about 20 minutes each way for me) and carbon footprint. Of course the costs increase significantly once the kiddo turns 18 and the AMA membership jumps to $85 a year ... every year ... AND the club costs go up too (based on your example).

Suddenly $100 (or even $200 for a couple units) and walking down to the corner to fly starts looking a lot more attractive. Plus the parents love it since they don't have to run the taxi service to/from the FRIA.

Last edited by franklin_m; 07-31-2023 at 01:54 PM.
Old 07-31-2023, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
(1) Please provide data source supporting the statement "average club cost $20 to $50"

(2) FT appears to be more than able to get people flying w/o "instructors/mentors", so I don't know that access to a club provides as much value as you want everyone to believe.

(3) You neglect the cost in time, fuel, and carbon footprint to travel to a FRIA site. It's 13 miles one way to the nearest club from me. Whether that's typical or not, I have no idea. Some in Montana / Wyoming, etc. have to travel much farther. Back to my example though, my wife's car gets about 25mpg across that route (most fuel efficient we own), so that's about a gallon per round trip. At $3.79 a gallon for flex fuel, once a week, times 52 weeks a year, that's $197. Ok, maybe they don't go every week, let's say every other, so let's call it $98 a year in fuel, which has to be added to the cost of the FRIA option. Which is now $15 (AMA) plus ($25 - $100 for club) plus $98 (fuel) for a range of $138 to $213 (or more depending on gas) ... EVERY YEAR! Add to that the time impact (about 20 minutes each way for me) and carbon footprint. Of course the costs increase significantly once the kiddo turns 18 and the AMA membership jumps to $85 a year ... every year ... AND the club costs go up too (based on your example).

Suddenly $100 (or even $200 for a couple units) and walking down to the corner to fly starts looking a lot more attractive. Plus the parents love it since they don't have to run the taxi service to/from the FRIA.

1. How many examples will it take?
2. FT suggests the help of an experienced pilot/instructor for a minimum of 5 hours of flight time in their safety code.
3. Travel to and from recreational activities is the norm. No need to address that hyperbole. Same goes for carbon footprint.


Back to flying without help, granted technology has improved but I have yet to see anyone self learn without destroying an airplane or three. Add that level of inexperience in a schoolyard and what is the incident potential? Not to mention the loss of a $250 BNF trainer. Having a club instructor greatly increases the odds of learning without the loss of aircraft. Of course FT offers no insurance so one would be relying on home owner’s insurance should a model crash into a home or a car. What would be the rate increase in the event of such an incident?

Lets talk about your flying site. Let’s hope that it is not within one of these locations.

The FAA also prohibited drones from flying within a 5-mile radius of airports with control towers, such as the University Park Airport in Benner Township. The local no-fly zone covers all of Penn State’s campus, downtown State College, and nearby communities such as Houserville, Lemont, Park Forest, Unionville, and Julian. (Again, the FAA has a process for pilots to request waivers to fly in no-fly zones.)

If not, as an AMA member, you agreed to the following upon purchasing your membership.


I will use an established safety line to separate all model aircraft operations from spectators and bystanders.

Just how are you establishing your safety line?
Old 07-31-2023, 08:14 PM
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the same way those guys that talked about how they regularly flew over the equestrian folk that also use the facility the pilots use, established their flight line.
Old 08-01-2023, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
...average club cost $20 to $50 ...
Originally Posted by franklin_m
(1) Please provide data source supporting the statement "average club cost $20 to $50"
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
1. How many examples will it take?
Well, the math says 323 random samples are needed to get 95% confidence level and 5% chance of error assuming 2000 AMA clubs in existence. If there's 3000 clubs, it would require 341 samples.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
2. FT suggests the help of an experienced pilot/instructor for a minimum of 5 hours of flight time in their safety code.
Suggests is not a requirement.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
3. Travel to and from recreational activities is the norm. No need to address that hyperbole. Same goes for carbon footprint.
Perhaps. But consider little league baseball. Four sites withing 5 miles of where I sit, one within 200 yards. And even when they play kids from nearby towns, the distance is about the same as a trip to the flying site, but the travel frquency if far less. Similar for softball, soccer, and lacross in our area .. plenty of sites very close by. Additionally, our town is very bike friendly and lot of kids ride their bikes to practice etc., further reducing the travel costs & logistics burden. Hard to ride a bike to an AMA field 13 miles away and take all the stuff to participate.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
The FAA also prohibited drones from flying within a 5-mile radius of airports with control towers, such as the University Park Airport in Benner Township. The local no-fly zone covers all of Penn State’s campus, downtown State College, and nearby communities such as Houserville, Lemont, Park Forest, Unionville, and Julian. (Again, the FAA has a process for pilots to request waivers to fly in no-fly zones.)
Exactly the same situation as several hundred AMA clubs that exist inside class D or class E surface areas. Oh, and they didn't prohibit, they said you have to have permission. Again, JUST LIKE AMA clubs in similar situations.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Back to flying without help, granted technology has improved but I have yet to see anyone self learn without destroying an airplane or three. Add that level of inexperience in a schoolyard and what is the incident potential? Not to mention the loss of a $250 BNF trainer. Having a club instructor greatly increases the odds of learning without the loss of aircraft.
Of course nobody says you need to buy $250 aircraft. The FT business model assumes crashes, that's whey the planes are light, made of foam, and easy to re-use the expensive bits with new foam structure.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Of course FT offers no insurance so one would be relying on home owner’s insurance should a model crash into a home or a car. What would be the rate increase in the event of such an incident?
Please show us where FAA requires insurance.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
I will use an established safety line to separate all model aircraft operations from spectators and bystanders ... Just how are you establishing your safety line?
I think Mongo had a good response, the same way the club does where they fly over non-participants (who are on horseback - and at risk of being thrown if the horse is startled by toy planes).

Big picture, folks need to see through all the rhetoric from the acolytes and follow the money. I just got my copy of the AMA's 2021 taxes, and for yet another year, inflation adjusted membership revenue and club dues declined. The AMA is doing everything it can to try and make as many people as possible have no place to fly except for club fields. Why do you think they've said very little about the modules they're testing? People with modules don't need FRIAs, and therefore don't need AMA. Heck, look at the language of the amendment they pushed so hard. When you put that language into the bill as they would like it to be, it essentially makes it impossible to fly a recreational sUAS over 55lbs anywhere but an AMA field. Maybe that makes sense in NYC, NJ, or other cities, but in vast sections of rural America, it makes no sense. But that's what AMA pushed for.

Last edited by franklin_m; 08-01-2023 at 03:36 AM.
Old 08-01-2023, 06:21 AM
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So, when are these FRIAS going to start to be awarded to those who applied? We were last told by the AMA our application could be evaluated as late as January.
I've been reading the ASTM F3411 standard and RID seems pretty hit and miss as to its coverage capability . I am skeptical if the modules being released will work in rural areas. The standard doesn't address much about FCC compliance and RFI.
Not a lot of options for flying "legally" after September 16th. I think most of us will not worry about it and just keep flying until the guys in full body armor and black SUVs catch us.
Old 08-01-2023, 06:33 AM
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There's around 150 approved FRIA's with more coming in nearly daily. The FAA has assured us they intend to deal with the applications before the deadline.
Old 08-01-2023, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by scottrc
So, when are these FRIAS going to start to be awarded to those who applied? We were last told by the AMA our application could be evaluated as late as January.
I've been reading the ASTM F3411 standard and RID seems pretty hit and miss as to its coverage capability . I am skeptical if the modules being released will work in rural areas. The standard doesn't address much about FCC compliance and RFI.
Not a lot of options for flying "legally" after September 16th. I think most of us will not worry about it and just keep flying until the guys in full body armor and black SUVs catch us.
That's why I've switched to 250g or less mostly. Relatively free of restrictions and A LOT more places to fly.
Old 08-01-2023, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
There's around 150 approved FRIA's with more coming in nearly daily. The FAA has assured us they intend to deal with the applications before the deadline.
Where can a list of approved sites be found?
Old 08-02-2023, 02:52 AM
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Clubs are notified directly by the FAA

If you have a question about a particular club you can PM me.
Old 08-02-2023, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
There's around 150 approved FRIA's with more coming in nearly daily.
Originally Posted by pkoury
Where can a list of approved sites be found?
Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
Clubs are notified directly by the FAA ... If you have a question about a particular club you can PM me.
Anyone notice that AMA refuses to do the easy thing, the transparent thing, and just post of list with the status of each club? Simple table, club name, column for "AMA rec'd", column for "Fwd to FAA", column for "Approved", and column for "Denied/Modified"

Why is AMA so frightened of transparency?
Old 08-02-2023, 09:14 AM
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If you have a question on your home club or clubs near you feel free to contact your VP.

The list changes every day so anything posted today would be out of date before I quit working for the day.
Old 08-02-2023, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Anyone notice that AMA refuses to do the easy thing, the transparent thing, and just post of list with the status of each club? Simple table, club name, column for "AMA rec'd", column for "Fwd to FAA", column for "Approved", and column for "Denied/Modified"

Why is AMA so frightened of transparency?
Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey
If you have a question on your home club or clubs near you feel free to contact your VP.

The list changes every day so anything posted today would be out of date before I quit working for the day.
Is anyone surprised at the rationalization / excuse for lack of transparency from AMA EC member? Just include a line at the top that says "Information accurate as of close of business on ____" and have that be the day prior.

Problem solved - if they want to solve it. Reality is, they don't want to solve it, because that means transparency and perhaps membership finding out they're not making the progress they say they are. They've got three "Information Systems" staff, and it's not a lot to ask to update a web page once a day. I'm sure "Member and Club Services" (staff of NINE people) don't already have a spreadsheet with all the data already.
Old 08-02-2023, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m
Anyone notice that AMA refuses to do the easy thing, the transparent thing, and just post of list with the status of each club? Simple table, club name, column for "AMA rec'd", column for "Fwd to FAA", column for "Approved", and column for "Denied/Modified"

Why is AMA so frightened of transparency?
Need to know, you may be familiar with the phrase.

Or, the FAA does not require FRIA status to be public information.

Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 08-02-2023 at 10:22 AM.

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