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Old 05-30-2002, 03:21 PM
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Default Ama

This will probably get deleted, but in the July 2002 issue, Dave Brown, the AMA president states that AMA "might" raise the Dues to individual members, I have wrote to Dave and also Jim who is the Vp to Tennessee, about not rasieing them, if they need a way to cut expenses, then get rid of the oversized, overprice club house in muncie indiana, I know for one I will never get to use or see the place, like most people in AMA wont, so why should we pay for it ??
another thing i suggested is that they take a cut in pay(no responce on this one) I live on 10k a year, they could too, or atleast 15k a year at most, AMA is suppose to be a Hobby, not a job.

all Im asking is to write a e-mail to Dave Brown ([email protected]), and your VP of your district, and list your ideas and concerns about them raising the dues.

If they do raise, then I might have to not renew and just get a few back yard flyers and fly in my backyard and at the city/state park.

thank you for your time
Old 05-30-2002, 03:49 PM
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Default Ama

insurance, someone to deal with the FCC on frequency issues, someone to help when dealing with problems with fields (noise complaints etc), someone to outline the safety rules for everyone,
free magazine and more?. what is all this worth to you?... for me its certainly worth WAY more than $48 a year.

I understand you complaints about the "clubhouse" and such but for all the stuff they do I'm glad they are even around.

They can raise the rates... I'll pay.
Old 05-30-2002, 04:02 PM
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Default Ama

I will gladly pay an increase. Would you be willing to do Dave Brown's job for $15,000 a year? I know I wouldn't. We can't even get club members to be a field marshal for half a day.
Old 05-30-2002, 04:02 PM
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Default Unstable

Well, we are having problem with nosie and when we asked AMA and Jim McNell to help us , all we got is one letter and one call and that is all, we are in the process of losing our field and AMA hasnt yet help one bit, when we asked for a AMA lawyer, we never got a reply..


If they do raise them, and see thatthey can raise them with out the AMA members protesting, then they will more or less do as our goverment has done, raise the dues each year or ever two years, then when you are paying close to 100.00 a year, what then ?!?!?
Old 05-30-2002, 04:09 PM
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Default Anthony

yes I would be AMA pres for 15k a year, im only making 10k a year now, because of a bad liver and doctors say to not to work till I get a new one, Dave claims that he and all the Vp's do not get paid anything to do their jobs at AMA, only the 60 odd people that work full time in the office get paid, but wont tell how much, if I can live on 10k a year with a 3 bedroom house, and other stuff then they could also, but yes , Give me Dave Browns job and pay me 15k a year, I'll be one happy puppy
Old 05-30-2002, 04:27 PM
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Default Ama

From a prevoius post.


>>Give me Dave Browns job and pay me 15k a year, I'll be one happy puppy<<


"Getting" the job and title is one thing, fulfilling the duties and obligations is something totally different.

Ed S
Old 05-30-2002, 04:49 PM
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Default Ama

You have got to be kidding about the pay cut thing . . .right? Please understand that the AMA does much more than simply mail a card and magazine to you. Remember the frequencies that we all use are under constant pressure from other industries that write us off as "people playing with toys." How about all of the medical claims they pay out when our member base cuts their fingers off with a prop? How about the education programs that are produced, and promoted to our youth.

Your argument about living on 10M a year is flawed. You sustain life on that amount (I applaud you). The AMA has to do much more than sustain life. It must protect the interests of over 150M members and believe it or not a multi million dollar industry.

As for the building you are correct that most will never use it. Do you have a VA hospital in your area? How about a building that houses a government agenciy that you do not use? If you do not use the agiency or hospital does that mean that they do not need the building to help the thousands of people who do need the services?

I do not know Dave Brown by more than the articles I read and the information I hear at trade shows, but he is more than a club president. He has the duties of a CEO, with thousands of customers.

Please do not confuse your local club activites to the mission of the AMA. I for one will pay (not happy about it) because it is the neessary thing to do, and I belive in many of the programs the AMA supports.

To use your own words "its a hobby," which by defintion is a luxury item and not life sustaining. I feel for you as you have a condition that precludes you from working . . .but you are a small percentage of the member base. When things are tight the luxury items must go . . .

Good luck at your field . . . If you really want it you will not make a few phone calls and give up when the help does not come. Be persistant and ask thoes people if they can help. If you are not personally in charge of making these calls don't assume that the answers you are getting are correct . . .clubs (not just R/C) are full of members that say they have called, or gotten a "no" when they have not taken the time to talk to the people who can say "yes."

Sorry this is so long, but the salary thing is just not anywhere near correct!
Old 05-30-2002, 05:05 PM
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Default Dues Increase

Phughes has stated it very well. From what I was able to gather from Dave Brown's article (plus other writings), most (all?) of the increase is based on the insurance side of the equation. Since we are provided with 2.5 MILLION dollars in supplimental liability coverage plus theft, etc. this has got to be a bargain. If ALL of the dues went for insurance (they don't; as Phughes pointed out the AMA provides many more services) then it would be a real baragin. Considering that I live in a state (Oklahoma) which (according to my agent) is not a "top-tier" state for personal liability insurance and I still paid (this year) $118.00/Million for personal liability insurance; the AMA is a good thing. Yes, I know, it only covers hobby related accidents, but still, "all of this for $48.00 and we get 2.5 MILLION in insurance too".

Needless to say, I do not like to have to pay increasing prices for things (AMA membership included) but most things just cost more as time goes by.

My .02 (maybe .05 on this one).

Dan
Old 05-30-2002, 05:14 PM
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Default phughes

ok phughes

when the dues are up to around a 100.00 a year, keep paying them, there are other ways they can come up with the money to run AMA, this "Hobby" is just getting too expensive, that is the reason for nice websites as this (RCU) where we the flyers can save money.

Comparing the AMA club house, and VA hospitals is like oranges to apples, the Va was paid a long time ago by the blood of the people that fought to keep the us and other counrtys free, the AMA hasnt fought for anyone with blood, and when I sent out e-mails to Dave and Jim , neather one will reply to the "what happen to our needing help".

Yes I only get 10k (dont know what 10m) is a year, others are getting less, but AMA claims that they must come up with a better budget, then the first thing to do is a pay cut, if the people at AMA dont want the paycut, then find another job, when i worked at a computer store a few years ago, the boss told us we all had to take a pay cut, most of the people left and got better jobs, I stayed and took the pay cut because I liked the work I was doing, the same could go for AMA, if they enjoy working for AMA then they can take a pay cut, if not then find a new job, but dont pass the burdon on to people like me that are eather retired or on disablty.


Dave stated that the reason for the "might" raise the dues is because if the insurance rates going up, But he claims that most of it is due to field owners and club owners, let them pay a raise in their dues...
Old 05-30-2002, 05:33 PM
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Default Ama

I will agree with you on raising the fees to the individual site owners. If I remeber the article Dave does adress this. At any rate as Dan says . . .the coverage is worth the price if compared to other forms of "like" coverage. Once again . . .eliminate all of the salarys, and you still do not eliminate the legal claims that are being paid out each year. (What you do get is no one to process them). which is the reason the dues must go up. Will I pay if they are $100.00/ year? Yes . . .in a few years when the value of the dollar goes up . . .and I am still able to fly . . .I will pay the dues. I can remeber when USPS Stamp was .15 and a candy bar was .25 . . .you might remeber when they were cheaper than that. Do you still send a letter? Bottom line is things go up in price as time moves on . . .salaries increase at the same rate in most instances . . . if they do not as you said "move on" to a job that allows you balance your quality of work life with the things you like to do outside of work.

The AMA is just responding to a dynamic environment . . . you are suggesting that we all live in the current "time" and not change anything going forward. Although this does provide me with some comfort (I like order, and things that I can count on) it is just not realistic to think that life (as well as model ariplanes) do not change constantly.

This will be my last post as I could write all day on the subject, but please know that I understand your concerns . . .I just do not think that it is possible to keep things from changing.

Hope you save your field, and recover quickly . . .OS engines now have fuel injection and instead of costing 129.95 they go for 799.95 . . . progress? I don't know but I can say one thing . . .at my current salary I will have to work a lot of side jobs to get one!

PBH
Old 05-30-2002, 08:03 PM
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Default Ama

I for one don't have a problem with the price at all. I don't get the magazine and am 16 so all it costs me is $1.00. Then I pay the $20 field fee and I am free to fly as much as I want. Its much better than paying $10 a week to race r/c cars like I used to.

Besides, wouldn't you rather have a great field to fly at that has regulated frequencies so your $1k planes don't get shot down? Or even just mowed grass?
Old 05-30-2002, 08:27 PM
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Default Club complainer

We have our share of complainers in our club, I could swear some of our guys/gals were on this site in disguise. We have our favorate saying " they won't serve in any office, do any work, but are always complaining about the way someone else does a great job. Sounds like "SHORTARM ENVY"..
Old 05-30-2002, 08:39 PM
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Default gubbs3

lucky you , only 1.00 to pay for AMA, and 20.00 for club fees, I payed my 48.00 and 30.00 club fees, and for the 6 years that I raced cars I didnt once have to pay anything to race at tracks all over the USA, expect on the races that had a cash pay out then I payed the entry fee to race, But I didnt have to pay any AMA.

beside , being in a club doesnt mean you wont get shot down by a toehr members radio (we are getting shot at with a gun at our field) and beside last weekend, sunday afternoon, our field keeper still didnt mow, so I mowed the field, one members plane was barly able to get the ground speed up to lift and when it did left it looked like it was shot out of a cannon all of a sudden, so just because you pay your dues dosent mean you get all you are suppose to, we still havent heard from the AMA on helping us fight our problem in court..

just wait till you have to pay the full adult dues and they are over 75.00 at that time because AMA club members just roll over and take it with a gain of salt and say "thats life"
Old 05-30-2002, 08:39 PM
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Default Ama

red knight, i have no polite comments for you , or your selfish crusade.
Old 05-30-2002, 08:51 PM
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Default pilotrc

I do all I can do at our field, I try to attend all the meeting except when im in the hospital, I did the field keepers job just this weekend and mowed our field, But as far as I'm concerned AMA hasnt done anything personaly to help me or our club here in east Tenn, in fact I have never seen one thing in the AMA mag about East Tenn, may be you live where AMA is real big and does things for you and your club, but here AMA has not try to bring kids in to the hobby, they have never showed up at any of the fly-in's, they just are not here.
they dont reply to our letters of needing legal help, and Dave only replyed to me because I called that waste of money in Muncie In, a oversized, over priced club house.

If AMA showed up around here and help us in our cause and tryed to get programs here to get kids into flying, then maybe I wouldnt sound sour at them and just pay higher dues, but I feel like I have a right to voice my option, and ask the majorty of the 170,000+ that feels the way I do to e-mail Dave and tell him so..
Old 05-30-2002, 08:56 PM
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Default Buz^

selfish crusade, then you must be one of the lucky people that make over 100k a year, I'm just trying to voice my options and to get the members that are in the same boat as me to voice their options, and of course you have your option.

my planes dont cost 1k, my are the ones that I buy the kit for 100.00 and have to save to buy the rest to finish it.

selfish crusade, ha
Old 05-30-2002, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Ama

then get rid of the oversized, overprice club house in muncie indiana, I know for one I will never get to use or see the place, like most people in AMA wont, so why should we pay for it ??
another thing a suggested is that they take a cut in pay(no responce on this one) I live on 10k a year, they could too, or atleast 15k a year at most, AMA is suppose to be a Habby, not a job.

So we should shut down the factories because our cars are to expensive. Or fire all the engineers because it cost too much to design better products.

hmmm lets see...

If someone has a hobby its because they enjoy it and its something they "want" to do. You dont "have" to do R/C aircraft, free flight, control line, scale and a dozen other AMA supported SIG's... do you? AND you dont have to be a AMA member... do you. But if you want ot fly at any responsible AMA sanctioned field you do. Is a $6-$10 increase too unreasonable price to pay to have the type of organization like the AMA? I dont think so. I would sacrifice one gallon of fuel or one roll of Mono-coat or one prop to keep it alive and stable.

RedKnight...(allthough I empathize with the though of having to live on a meager income) they havent raised your dues in 5 years. I'll bet there isnt anything that you have consumed in the last 5yrs that hasnt gone up in price by at least 10%...think about it.

I commend you for trying to use the available lines through AMA and hopefully they will extend help to your orginzation. If you are having problems in those areas and your district rep cant or wont help you then its time to use your vote and convince others elect a rep that will.
Old 05-30-2002, 09:20 PM
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Default AMA

Redknight...We are a GOLD LEADER club because we have...A youth program, train new pilots young and old, Participate in the Florida International Air Show with a 45 minute show with Jets and aerobatic shows {giant scale}, Sponser the JR CHALLENGE,with 60 of the worlds best pilots, Have flyins, and more. The AMA only santions the event and provides insurance { not availabe anywhere}. In short ,the local club does it all..not some other organization. We pay a very small annual dues to for representation , Insurance and topflight legal advice, IF we need it. IN short it's your club, make things happen OR just keep complaining your life away ...JIM {by the way six members do most of the planning and work out of 116 members, the rest just complain}
Old 05-30-2002, 09:39 PM
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Default pilotrc

The club I belong to also has a training program, and tryes to get in the local schools to get more youngs into flying, but does AMA see what we are doing , NO, we asked for help last year on a case where a person was shooting at our planes and us, did AMA help, NO, oh Jim McNell called, but didnt offer no legal help, When we asked for legal help this year in trying to keep our field, is AMA helping out, sofar NO, AMA isnt showing me that they deserve more then 48.00 dollers a year.

am I going to keep send Dave and Jim e-mail complaneing and asking for help, yes, I paid my dues, the club paid it's dues.
Old 05-30-2002, 10:09 PM
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Default Ama

Cheap insurance. Try to find another policie that covers you for 2.5 million for $4.00 a month.
Old 05-30-2002, 10:17 PM
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Default Sawyer692

where are you getting it for 4.00 dollers a month, I pay 48.00.

oh, and by the by, AMA is also thinking of only giving Senior's 10% instend of the current 20% off dues membership
Old 05-30-2002, 10:24 PM
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Default Ama

4x12= 48

Thats 4 dollars a month
12 months per year
Old 05-30-2002, 10:26 PM
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Default Ama

where are you getting it for 4.00 dollers a month, I pay 48.00.
I guess that I might complain too if I was paying $48 a month. Hmmm......
Old 05-30-2002, 10:47 PM
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Default Ama

red knight , you are sure welcome to your opinion, as am i , lucky tho??? let me clue you in on something. i am a very lucky guy, im 47 and getting back into the hobby after a 20 year layoff, lucky , yes i am, i also am a quad, will never walk or have full use of my hands again, (car crash). i have the good fortune to belong to a club with a bunch of AMA supporting rc enthusiest's. they were more than willing to come to my house and preflite my planes, heck, they also bring there flight support equipment and run-in my motors . my instructor's a great guy named Dave Agar, were in vancouver washington. if it wernt for the trickle down effect of Dave Brown and staff's efforts to promote the hobby and the comradery of a great club CCRCR's . i might be left to stare at my ceiling from my hospital bed. by the way, i do have more to live on than you, i get 12k. next time be sure who your laffin at . Buz
Old 05-30-2002, 11:35 PM
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Default Ama

Life is choice, if you don't like it don't pay up. Compared to building Muscle cars, music, golf, Triathlons, tattoos and computers...R/C is the cheapest hobby I've had. I've blown twice a years worth of AMA memberships just on a night on the town...and don't even remember it. I don't give a crap what they do with my money or how big their offices are. I see the end product (having fun with my planes and the club) and am willing to pay whatever is required to get there. I have always felt I get more in return than I put into this hobby. To me it is well worth it. If it ever becomes not worth it, I simply don't pay and go on to something else. I don't see that happening though...I've been at this for 25 years, and R/C co-existed and outlasted all the other hobbys I mentioned. It's amazing how as you grow older you throw irons out of the fire until you are down to your favorite

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