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AMA certified instructors

Old 04-20-2004, 04:31 PM
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SDR-Hammer
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Default AMA certified instructors

While checking out some web sites of other clubs I found a club that had a couple of their instructors listed as “AMA certified instructors”.

I had no idea the AMA had such a certification process and couldn’t find any mention of it on the AMA web site.

Does it really exist? If so, what is involved to be designated as “AMA certified”?
Old 04-20-2004, 04:46 PM
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Jim Branaum
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

The way I understand it, you club appoints you and then tells the AMA. I don't worry about it any more because I got in lots of trouble trying to make sure our instructors could fly and teach SAFELY. Bad story that seems to be getting worse as this is written.
Old 04-20-2004, 05:01 PM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...-files/906.pdf

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...-files/547.pdf
Old 04-20-2004, 05:29 PM
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SDR-Hammer
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

J_R, as I read it is just “recommended” a pilot demonstrate proficiency in those flight areas to be an introductory instructor/pilot. Nothing offers an official designation as a certified AMA instructor, correct?
Old 04-20-2004, 05:57 PM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

Basically, the AMA ain't about to assume the liability of certifying any body, IMHO. The club picks the pilots. The suggested guidelines are for the use of the club in selecting pilots.
Old 04-20-2004, 06:01 PM
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FHHuber
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

The AMA does not have any specific instructor qualifications. There are no official AMA solo requirements for beginners either.

Some clubs have implimented one form or another of instructor qualification program.

The AMA has the "Introductory Pilot Program" designated instructors... but there is no qualification test to be in the program. This is left to the club that has put forth the names on thier instructors list.
Old 04-20-2004, 06:27 PM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

A more interesting question relates to CDs. Is a CD an agent for the AMA, and all such a relationship implies? I suspect the agenda item about sanctions and liabilitiy will result in more information about this area of liability.

Everything I have seen about CDs uses phrases like, "A CD represents the the AMA", but never "is an agent for the AMA". A subtle, but, legally technical difference.
Old 04-20-2004, 06:40 PM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

Huber, do you actually read anything?

The second document is entitled "AMA Chartered Club Guide for Introductory Pilot Selection Criteria and Flight Proficiency Demonstration"

"Specific instructor qualifications" obviously do exist, and are in the document, although they are not mandated, but are, instead, recommended.
Old 04-20-2004, 06:54 PM
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FHHuber
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

The intor pilot program is a TOTALY optional thing started up just a few years ago...

No club needs to participate in it AT ALL in order to have club certified flight instructors.

No AMA member has to ever deal with the paperwork of the program...

It has very little to do witht he subject of instructor certification or qulification.

The intro pilot program is simply an insurance documentation and extension program... nothing more.
Old 04-20-2004, 07:26 PM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

If a reader were to be looking for information for his club, in deciding what attributes are desirable for instructors, you would have misled that reader into believing no such guidelines exist. Whether the program is official, mandated, optional, or recommended is of no consequence… the guidelines exist.

PS, It’s interesting that you would term a program that was initiated in 1990 as “just a few years ago”.
Old 04-20-2004, 07:58 PM
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FHHuber
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

time is relative... The AMA was started in 1936... 68 years ago. 14 years is a small fraction of that.

From my perspective of flying RC for 29 years... the Intro pilot program isn't exactly ancient history.

And still the AMA NEVER certified ONE instructor. so claiming an AMA certification program is a bigger lie than saying there is no such certification.

********

J_R... you have been proven absolutely WRONG... might as well give up.
Old 04-20-2004, 08:05 PM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

Huber, I give up on you. I had hoped you would be able to correct misinformation posted in this forum. Instead, you use your partial knowledge and "I am never wrong" attitude to propagate minsinformaion yourself. Enjoy
Old 04-20-2004, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

There can only be one answer and that is simply stated as: There is no such thing as an "AMA Certified Instructor" only the "Introductory Pilot Program". Of which the only advantage is, and that only to the student is to allow him to drag his feet in becoming an AMA member up to a max of thirty days while still flying. Additionally the added paperwork for the instructor if he has any number of students can reach ridiculous proportions.

John
Old 04-20-2004, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

There can only be one answer and that is simply stated as: There is no such thing as an "AMA Certified Instructor" only "AMA Introductory Pilots". Of which the only advantage is, and that only to the student is to allow him to drag his feet in becoming an AMA member up to a max of thirty days while still flying. Additionally the added paperwork for the instructor if he has any number of students can reach ridiculous proportions.

John

There again is something left strictly to the Clubs and the Individual Instructor. Example: Yesterday I received a call from an individual stating he was ready to learn RC. He had an airplane and was ready to go. He is 19 years old, and said that he has applied for AMA.
I gave him some basic information and today we met at the field at 10AM. It was a bit on the windy side. I toured him around the facility, and then gave him about an hour and a half of ground school to cover basics of Safety Code, Club field rules, basic aerodynamics, how the airplane flies, how the radio is used, some personal safety pointers and an overview of the Club training course.
We then spent another 1/2 hour going over his airplane, and talking about how to operate with the buddy-cord. Took a soft-drink break and then the wild blue beckoned.

Even with the wind, after only 2 flights he was getting in the groove fairly well with boring holes in the sky. We did have some engine problems to correct and we did. It was getting on close to 2PM and I had a previous engagement so we decided to call it a day. As I was filling out the Intro Pilot paperwork, I was telling him about the next club meeting and showing him where the Club applications were, I spoke of the limit of 3 visits prior to joining the Club. He informed me that he had no intention of joining the Club as he would be going to college in the fall and was not going to spend the money. I told him not to expect to solo at Jetero, so regardless of the 30 days set by AMA for THEIR purposes, I set THREE FLYING SESSIONS as a limit for MY AND THE CLUB's purposes. With no intention of joining the club, he will not solo under my Introductory Instruction.[sm=pirate.gif] He probably could, but he won't. [>:]

IMO, it's the Club's and the individual instructor's choice if any individual is allowed to drag his feet.
Old 04-20-2004, 09:38 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

Horrace

First, I agree that it is the right of the club to determine how it is run.

You have raised two question, however. The first may be irrelevant.

Is the young man an open AMA member or a senior? If the latter, does your club have a lower rate for youngsters?

The second is more problematical. The Intro Pilot Program is based around non-AMA members. I feel certain, without asking, that you would train a non-AMA member under the terms of the program, if your club is, indeed, an Intro Club. I would further assume that the non-AMA member would not/could not become a member of your club without an AMA membership. Now the question. Why, if the foregoing assumptions are correct, would you penalize the young man because he has opted to become an AMA member? Is it possible that you might want to reconsider your position with him?
Old 04-20-2004, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

JR quite correctly pointed out to me my use of the term AMA Introductory Program in a PM and I have corrected it in the post to the correct title of Introductory Pilot Program.

Yes Hoss I certainly agree the program is worthless and only serves as a form of 'instructor abuse'. when the program was first introduced I participated (no I can,t remember the year) and after just three individuals ran up to the thirty day limit and still no AMA then just disappeared only to surface at nearby clubs training still without a card I simply said no more and why should I have to do all those reports just for people who only want to stick it to me, the club and the AMA.

Yes I still instruct and love it just as I did in full scale, It is an extremely rewarding activity for the instructor too. However I have my own personal standards on who I will work with and its not that hard to spot the 'Users' with no intention of contributing to the sport/hobby in any way.

As far as the newbie going to a local club website and picking an instructor based on any club program or the Introductory Pilot program is in fact worthless. The quality of various instructors at every club in the country can vary from awful to the finest avaliable in any venue. This is irregardless of any local or Intro pilot program. I have seen many clubs that all three of the allowed intro pilots (at least it was three when I was involved) were indeed awfull while at the same time there were people in the same club that were superb instructors. Selection of club designated instructors all to often based on politics and not real world qualifications or actual teaching skills.

My suggestion for anyone seeking an instructor is to get your Butt out to the field and certainly more than once, talk to people (anyone that will listen) and indeed watch. You will soon know who to seek out. Forget any weight given to some political program or website. Do the research.


John[8D]
Old 04-21-2004, 12:52 AM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

I have helped beginners with maiden flights and instruction many times at our non AMA field. It never occurred to me before reading this thread to even ask if they have AMA. Am I any more liable than if I was flying the plane without them? Is the only point to the intro pilot program to cover the club and/or field if it is AMA sanctioned? The instructor would be covered by their AMA, the student probably wouldn't be liable on a buddy box, the club and field are covered so what's the point?

I understand Hoss and John B.'s point about someone dragging their feet and not wanting to carry them but based on liability only does it matter?
Old 04-21-2004, 01:02 AM
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J_R
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

BB

The point of the Intro Pilot program is to extend AMA coverage to the student.
That is the only way a non-AMA member is covered with AMA insurance during instruction. It also allows the student to fly at an AMA chartered club's field (that excludes situations like the basin).
Old 04-21-2004, 01:10 AM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

The only purpose to the Intro pilot program is if the Intro pilot does the proper reports the non member student will be covered under the AMA liability vail for a maximum period of up to thirty days.

John
Old 04-21-2004, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

ORIGINAL: J_R

Huber, I give up on you. I had hoped you would be able to correct misinformation posted in this forum. Instead, you use your partial knowledge and "I am never wrong" attitude to propagate minsinformaion yourself. Enjoy
And then you turn around and support my exact point...

ORIGINAL: J_R

The point of the Intro Pilot program is to extend AMA coverage to the student.
The Intro Pilot program has NOTHING to do with certifying any instructor.
Old 04-21-2004, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

ORIGINAL: FHHuber




The Intro Pilot program has NOTHING to do with certifying any instructor.
Not quite right Goob. Actually a intro pilot has to have paperwork submited to the AMA and accepted by the club...so THAT is a type of certifacation.

So again you are WRONG
Old 04-21-2004, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

I'll belive the Itro Pilot Program is an instrctor certification program when the AMA starts sending people around to verify that the istrutors can actually fly something.

They don't.

They won't.
Old 04-21-2004, 01:11 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

ORIGINAL: BasinBum

I have helped beginners with maiden flights and instruction many times at our non AMA field. It never occurred to me before reading this thread to even ask if they have AMA. Am I any more liable than if I was flying the plane without them? Is the only point to the intro pilot program to cover the club and/or field if it is AMA sanctioned? The instructor would be covered by their AMA, the student probably wouldn't be liable on a buddy box, the club and field are covered so what's the point?

I understand Hoss and John B.'s point about someone dragging their feet and not wanting to carry them but based on liability only does it matter?
BB-
FWIW, I'm much more in tune with your actions to promote model aviation than with Hoss and John B., whose inferred underlying interest in helping beginners is to recruit club/AMA members.
As far as liability goes, it is my understanding that the Intro Pilot program provides insurance coverage for the individual, as would individual AMA membership, with the conditions that that the newbie is under direct supervision of the Intro Pilot and the flights are logged and reported to AMA. It's been a while though - I was an Intro Pilot about ten years ago, until the club decided there was litlle value (i.e., less than the ten bucks or so per designated Pilot sent to AMA) in the program. There was no more IP qualification required than for AMA membership, that is, club sends AMA the money and you're an instructor after the check clears.

Abel
Old 04-21-2004, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

Even with the wind, after only 2 flights he was getting in the groove fairly well with boring holes in the sky. We did have some engine problems to correct and we did. It was getting on close to 2PM and I had a previous engagement so we decided to call it a day. As I was filling out the Intro Pilot paperwork, I was telling him about the next club meeting and showing him where the Club applications were, I spoke of the limit of 3 visits prior to joining the Club. He informed me that he had no intention of joining the Club as he would be going to college in the fall and was not going to spend the money. I told him not to expect to solo at Jetero, so regardless of the 30 days set by AMA for THEIR purposes, I set THREE FLYING SESSIONS as a limit for MY AND THE CLUB's purposes. With no intention of joining the club, he will not solo under my Introductory Instruction.[sm=pirate.gif] He probably could, but he won't. [>:]

IMO, it's the Club's and the individual instructor's choice if any individual is allowed to drag his feet.
For someone who ran for District VIII VP, promoting the hobby should be a priority high on the list whether you were elected or not. You are still a member of the AMA and as an instructor should put your best foot forward to promote the Hobby as a whole.
Even if it is just giving this kid his three free visits this could translate into a future long-term modeler once he is done with college. Reading your quote above has instilled a NO vote if you ever decide to run for any position with in the AMA again. Now we see the true colors of H Cain and his idealisms about promoting the hobby to our youth. Can you imagine if we would have voted him in??

Way to go Hoss!
Old 04-21-2004, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: AMA certified instructors

Hi Ted

As unbelievable as it may seem, my post was not a rip at Horrace. In the last few days there has been a thread going about the 3 visit rules that many clubs have, and I thought perhaps Horrace had been caught up in that when he made his decision.

To support the other side: My club is not an Intro Pilot club. We have no one that is interested in making the reports to HQ that are required by the program. We DO have some paid instructors, as well as voluntary ones. AMA is required of all who fly at our field. Many instructors have gotten tired of teaching and watching the student walk away, either joining another club or leaving modeling when the newbie’s plane becomes a lawn dart. For most instructors, there is a desire to see the new member blossom. To see the day he no longer terrorizes the pits. To see the day when he becomes capable of giving back to the hobby. The largest club in my area refuses to teach newbies, with the exception of one instructor that will, if you buy a plane from him. When people give, they want something in return. Simple. There are a lot of older modelers that are sick of the “instant gratification” desires of a newer generation.

At the same time, we do offer a club membership to youngsters for $1 and it is not unheard of for a member to put up a buck for the AMA and a buck for the club to assure that youngsters are not turned away.

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