J_R

Hi Ron

In the coming election, it will be decided by 15-20% of the AMA membership who vote. Of that %, many will simply vote for the incumbent. Most voters will have no idea of any issues or personalities. A sign they are not unhappy with the way things are run. With the possible exception of D5, the incumbents will likely win, where an incumbent runs. Looking at the other side, 80% will not vote, thus casting a vote for apathy. They just want to fly, and the AMA charter and sanctioning systems allows them to do so. In the last presidential election, many voters were soooo motivated that they did not read the instructions and sent the ballots to HQ. 10,000 ballots, so sent, were not counted in the election. My guess has always been that they were primarily for the incumbent anyway. So much for what you see and hear.

Well, let’s again take this a step at a time. Gordon’s feelings are well documented. I have a great deal of respect for him. At the same time, those of us that have seen his posts in this forum know exactly where he is coming from. His SIG supported something he does not, in the recent turbine rules. Do a search of his posts and go back and read his posts. He may well run for office some day and win. His posts are based on fact and not on rumor or innuendo. When he posts opinions, he makes it clear they are his opinions.

As someone else already pointed out to you, the title of the thread is based on an erroneous assumption; the image of the AMA is poor. There is no proof of that. Again, as pointed out, that is akin to asking “When are you going to quit beating your wife?�. If, in fact the assumption is erroneous, the question can not be answered in an intelligent way.

Again, you make a mis-statement. The AMA was not organized to promote you, or your club. I suggest that you read the by-laws for the purposes the AMA was organized. To paraphrase a famous politician, “Ask not what the AMA can do for you, but, what you can do for the AMA�. Until you realize that the AMA is us, and not them, you will continue to battle ghosts.

In order to change the direction the AMA is headed, you must first define where it is headed. Then can you determine where it should be headed. You have posted nothing to do either.

If you want insurance for an event, that is one situation. If, on the other hand, you want to be protected from competing events a sanction is necessary to even attempt such protection. Only a CD may sanction an event, which evokes the benefits a sanction brings. Ron, read the documents I recommended to you. It’s all there.

My position on personally running for AMA office is well documented in this forum. Once again, your unwillingness to research the forum is showing. Many of my ideas are here for you to read, should you chose to do so.

I would be very interested to have you state what you believe an EC member is expected, by the membership, to do, in the position of VP. Not what is required by the by-laws, but, what the membership seems to expect.

I won’t mention the pins again… if you don’t.

JR

J_R

rsallen13

Ok, you want to change who may run. Here are the FACTS.

1. The by-laws of the AMA state the requirments of who may run for elected AMA office

2. The by-laws state that in order to change the by-laws the EC must propose the changes

3. The by-laws state that only AMA Leader Members may vote on any proposed changes.

Given those facts, how do you intend to change the requirements?

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

Take a deep breath J_R. We all know what is required to make the changes. We are taking that as a given.

Now for discussions sake, we have all been elected, the leader members agree to it, .................................................. .......... and with the proceedural AMA stuff out of the way........................... J_R " IF " you could change (to improve) something, anything , what would that be and why?

Please spare us the diatribe about the "HOW" at let us stick to the "WHAT" for this discussion. Please![8D]

J_R

OK, I see now. This is not meant to be a serious discussion that is related to reality. It is a thread where you wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which fills first. Sorry to have interrupted your wishing session.

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

J_R,

Just can't do it can you? We all know what is involved. You have beat us to death about it. We all are adults and are smart enough to realize that in order to effect change we must elect leaders to make those changes. You won on that point. Hurray for J_R!!!!!!!!!!!

But that does not and should not stop us from the discussion at hand. Are you saying that I should stop talking politics with my fellow man unless the discussion is only based on HOW to get elected and not what we would like out elected officals to do? I think not, which is why people discuss politics on a daily basis, but never run for office. We vote for the people who have similar ideas to ours.

That is all we are doing here is talking about what we would like to see happen. If you do not wish to contribute to the discussion then don't. But please don't talk down to those of who do.


Discussion at hand:

Another idea would be to more actively seek out press and media coverage on the good stuff that we do. Become more involved with "Inside RC" and "Radio Control Hobbies" as either sponsors and or as consultants. These two shows can bring alot to the table. Also, approach the Discovery Channel again about coverage for some of our major events like the Control Line FIA World Championships. Sometime you get the feeling that the AMA Headquarters is doing everything it can to fly under the radar. It may not be the reality or the situation, but it is how it is seen sometimes.

rw Guinn

Discussion at hand-Ignore reality. How is a Non-profit organization going to convince the IRS to maintain that status when the organization sponsors TV shows?
This is what J_R is railing against--Reality HAS to creep in, guys. If you have facts on the "poor opinion of the AMA", have at it.

If whishes were horses..

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

I work for a 5013c and I am on the Board of a not for profit professional organization. Both routinely buy add time (form of sponsorship) and others I know of routinely produce and sponsore TV shows. So this is reality. Just becasue AMA is a not for profit does not proclude them from using any and all marketing tools to increase membership and donations.

Let us not mix your version of reality with reality. And by the way, just read all the forums across all the different websites, as well as poll the members of your club. I pretty sure you will find a cross section of the AMA membership that is not happy, in one form or another, with some of the things that the AMA does.

I do think that AMA has an image problem, I do think that there are things that can be done by the current elected officals to change that if they wished. I also think that this forum is one of many ways that AMA memebers across the US can communicate, as well as at events and at the local club level. Continue communication about the good and the bad is a good thing, but only when people are allowed and do contribute. J_R's and rw Guinn's post's added nothing. Just more "there is nothing you can do so why bother" attitude.

Instead of being so negative how about some positive input?

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

*I* think (so it MUST be wrong) that the issue of electronic media advertising for the AMA is kind of gold plating what should be an on going local operation.

Look at the basic numbers. There are over 300,000,000 Americans, and less than ONE PERCENT (170,000) belong to the AMA. The AMA does not have a 'product' we can "sell" the general public, nor can we educate the general public as to what our 'needs' are in 30/60 second segments. Worse yet, we cannot effectively tell them what good "WE" do in those time segments.

The local clubs can (and frequently do) get more time to explain what they are doing, what is needed to enter the hobby, and what the hobby does for the local community. Those are the folks who can have impact. What the AMA needs to do is develop and disseminate a 'media packet' to educate those who get to present our picture to the electronic media. Just look at all the misinformation that is constantly presented in this forum (from supposedly educated [in AMA stuff] folks) for an example of what we (AMA) must strive to avoid.

Spending big dollars on a national advertising campaign cannot accomplish our goals. Or so *I* think.

J_R

First some informatin gathering. Is your 501(c)3 local, or national? How many members does it have? What is the cost, to the member, to belong to it? How much is the cost of production of a show to the organization? How much are the costs of the commercials, or at they included as part of the production costs? Are the broadcast locally, or nationaly?

How many dollars of the AMA's money would you commit to such a program?

Next up. Yes, let's look at all those websites. Well... no.... let's look at RCU. RCU now has over 100,000 accounts. About 75 post in this forum from time to time. The number of hits in threads would indicate there may be two or three times as many that read threads. Let's be wildly optomistic and say that 500 members read some part of the posts in the AMA forum in a month. To me, that is not much of an indication of interest, nor concern from the members of RCU about the AMA. 500 of 100,000 is... hmm... minimal interest?

Now, as to my participation. When I see something that strikes my fancy, or come up with some thought that I believe has merit, I do something about it. Most times, I do not bother to post it here. Whether it is giving a club advice on how to save a field, or getting something done at the EC level, I don't see much point in making an issue of it here. Occasionly, when it is already an issue here, I will post the advice. On the other hand, I have explained to others how to get things accomplished here. Those that would cry that things don't get done generally are unwilling to take action themselves. It's much easier to complain here than to make the necessary contacts, write the proposals, or lobby the individuals that can make change.

JR

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hello,

I have an idea, and I forwarded it to Rich Hanson a long time ago. I will make sure and follow up but I still think it is a good one.

Here is what I wrote:

Hello Mr. Hanson,

My name is Matt Carroll. I have been an AMA member for about 10 years. I fly
in Southern California, at the Sepulveda Basin in Van Nuys. I am in the
second year of a term as Treasurer of the San Fernando Valley Flyers. I must
say I appreciate all the help and support you have given our club in the
past.

I am writing this message in order to pass on an idea I have. I am pretty
active on RCUniverse, and I frequent the AMA Forum. This can be a fairly
contentious place, and I usually stay out of the fray. But during a recent
exchange, I had an idea that I think warrants consideration by the AMA.

My idea has to do with the way the ballot is constructed for AMA elections.
I have noted that the incumbent for any position is so noted on the actual
ballot. In my opinion, this only leads to uniformed voting. I can imagine
that many members vote with just this piece of information. It would seem if
someone wants to know who the incumbent is, they should at least read the
campaign statements that are sent with the ballot. I am sure the candidate
will make their incumbency known in their statement.

With this policy change, at least the uniformed voter will need to read part
of the statements, and may indeed become more informed as a result. I cannot
see how this change could be seen as a negative in any way. To me, a voter
that only wants to vote for the current incumbents can still do so, they
will just need to take an additional 30 seconds to read the enclosure. And
for those that might get more involved in the process by educating
themselves a bit....well I see that as a big positive for the member and the
AMA in general.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read this and considering my
proposal.

Sincerely,

Matt Carroll
AMA 541397

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

Jim,

So what your saying is that a National Organization has less resources and would be less effective in promting this hobby (which is one of its jobs) than say a local club with 50 or 100 memebers? Am I reading this correctly. ANd you hit the nail square on the top of the head as far as this thread has been going and I quote "Worse yet, we cannot effectively tell them what good "WE" do in those time segments. " that is called in marketing circles an image problem.


J_R can you even be more negative and bring even less to the table. How about something positive. Here is something positive and pro AMA for you, It was a great idea (and should be promoted outside the inner circle of the AMA membership) to host the FIA World Control line Championships here in the US.

We should strive to host as many of these as we can in the near future! Promote them through normal media channels, spread the word. We may not get much the first time probably get more the second time, goto the third and we could probably get some pretty comprehensive coverage. That would go along ways towards gathering interest in our hobby.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Matt,

It will be interesting to see the response!

J_R

rsallen13

Can I assume from your lack of answers that you do not know the answers to the questions I asked?

The AMA is promoting the FAI C/L camps, as it does all events it stages. Are you not aware of the PR that the AMA is doing?

Unfortunately, dog licks man is not much of a story.

When a plane goes through the roof of a condo, now that is news.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

GREAT IDEA - Just list the candidates aphabetically. Force the members at least to figure out who is who before they mark the ballot.

Red S.

rsallen13

My Feedback: (1)

Your the man in the know so what promotion outside of the hobby related arena is the AMA doing? What magazines? Newspapers? any TV? This stuff can be done for free in some cases others you have to pay for it. Adds in RC related magazines are great, but how about FLYING magazine, or Sport Pilot Magazine? How about submitting stuff to DIY Network, or the Outdoor Channel, or even Discovery Channel? Now that would be promoting the hobby. Except for RC related magazines I have not heard of nor seen anything.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

yep that was my intention.

The initial reaction from Rich was favorable, I just followed up with him today. I think if we can get it on the agenda, we can each push our VPs to back it.

I think this will be a very tough issue for an incumbent to vote against. I mean how can they argue against it?

Maybe I will write a letter to the AMA magazine with the same proposal.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

No thanks... that would most likely just put Dave Brown at the top ! [X(]

Gordon

J_R

Mr_Matt

As Red said, it is a great idea. At least I thought so. One that has been discussed on other sites many times. I picked it up from those discussions and floated it out two years ago in person and on the phone to seveal EC members. I am sorry to report that the response was best described as "JR, have you lost your mind?"

If I were you, I would not hold my breath while awaiting a response.

J_R

Still no answers. If your experience is relevant, share it, please.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Well Rich certainly did not respond to me that way, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

To reject this proposal would be tantamount to the EC publicly admitting that they are manipulating the system to support incumbency.

Doing something and being forced to publicly admit you are doing it are two different things.

J_R

Matt

I have mixed emotions. I trust Rich to do it if he said he would. I am not sure that the entire weight of our political system being for the use of incumbency is not reason enough to reject the idea. Perhaps those that would not recognize the abuse of the nominating system two years ago, learned a lesson last year.

Two years ago, no serious consideration was given to a modification of the nominating process, and now Bill Lee has made a proposal to the EC to modify the standing rules. It will be interesting to see if that is acted on. It is now in committee for consideation.

I will, however, place a wager with you Matt. If Rich makes the pitch for the idea, it will be referred to committee... and not heard from for a very long time.

archerry

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for your support.

Are you a movie buff? Have you seen the movie, "Last Samurai," with Tom Cruise. I too enjoy ,"GOOD COVERSATION." I know J_R personally outside of cyberspace (this forum) and he is the same way as he is here.

I was wondering how long it would take him (J_R) to say something. I could just hear his teeth grind and his tongue snap off from biting so hard..... Also notice how he personally attacked me because I'm still new to this.... He also attacked my freinds whom have had a long tenure with AMA and where I'm getting some of this info. Is this the type of guy you want running for District X VP or any type of AMA leadership? He is so hard and fast with the rules of AMA he lost the theme that I (a lot of us) see AMA as having a poor image. Instead of addressing the issue he chooses to throw rhetoric at it.........

J_R So far I see you have adding nothing productive to this good conversation and I wish you would stay out of it until you are able to do so.....

J_R

Wish in one hand...

Once again, Ron, it is obvious that you are not willing to find out anything about the subject you expound on... including me.

J_R

Hi Matt

Most never realize it. The main line of succession within the EC is not the election process. Do you recall the trivia facts that I posted? The last time a VP was elected that was not an incumbent was Bill Oberdieck. Bill actually won an election against an incumbent. There have been new EC members since. How do we get new EC members if they are not elected? Should they be allowed to use the term incumbent?

The other issue that raises it's head is term limits. I think there is more support for term limits on the EC than for exclusion of the term incumbent.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Let me see if I understood what you said. ARCHERRY has voiced his opinion so we should all go home and ignore this thread until we are perfect and agree with everything he might say, right or wrong. I thought that EVERYONE on this forum is allowed to disagree, but what you have done is beyond that when you launched your personal insults and remarks. Guess I must have been wrong.

Ron Allen, unfortunately that sure does look almost exactly like what *I* said and I can back it up with PROOF. The AMA has NOT penetrated the San Antonio Texas electronics media market EXCEPT for those many times MY CLUB carried the AMA when WE got the air time. The only part of your observation that is incorrect is that I did not say the national organization has less resources, but that can be implied. Now the REAL question is "How much $ should the AMA throw on the table to buy air time and penetrate those metropolitan markets?", because THAT environment is where our efforts are so sorely needed.

Horrace wanted to spend big bucks on 'marketing' and if you read many threads here, MOST members clearly are not willing to spend that money from their dues. MY suggestion is to create a packet that all club officers should get (with the new insurance certificates every year) that provides tools for THEM to do what is needed. That might get the job done AND it involves the local folks in something constructive. So far I have yet to see anyone take that and run with it or even shoot at it.