BlackB12

My Feedback: (9)

The website says it may take 3 weeks to get my new AMA card. I am a new member and I'm joining a local RC club in about 1.5 weeks. Am I covered under AMA as of now?

Mike

Crashem

BlackB12,

You used to me able to get proof of insurance by calling the AMA and having them fax you proof that the club would accept. I think I heard that they were changing the policy and they (AMA) would no longer send out this proof and that you needed to wait for your card. I am not 100% sure about this and I would strongly reccomend calling the AMA headquarters regardless of the responses to this post.

MikeMc

It doesn't matter what the AMA polocy is. Same for all insurance, if they accepted your money then you're covered. If the club will accept that is a totally different thing.

smokingcrater

it is slightly more complicated, they can legally delay long enough for your funds to clear. (I think two weeks is the legal limit)

but yeah, it is more up to your club then an AMA thing. If you can get a copy of the cancelled check that may be good enough for your club, or you may have to wait until you physically have the card...

Nas19320

I live within the same area as you and it took my card about a week to get to me after paying online so you should have your card in less than 1.5 weeks. This was the end of last month. HTH

J_R

BlackB12

Take Crashem's advice. Call membership at 1-800-I-FLY-AMA and ask for the membership department.


MikeMc

You might be right, IF the AMA was an insurance company, which it is not. The AMA is a not for profit educational organization. Providing AMA members with insurance is a benefit of membership.


Nas19320

Memebership renewals are going out right now. It is not like it was a month ago, and it may take a few more days now then it did then.

MikeMc

Makes no difference what kind of business. Services are offered and money is payed. Being non profit doesn't give them some special freedom to break the law and/or contract. Accepting money for services is the same as a legal contract. Although I'm not sure about the whole check clearing thing.

J_R

Exactly the point Mike. There is no agent. The money is not paid until it is recieved and the funds are in the till. As an example, if a hard copy application were lost in the mail, there would be no membership... and no insurance. If a check were to bounce, or a credit card denied, there would be no membership and no insurance. It is not from the date postmarked, as noted on the application. From the hard copy application: "Insurance coverage is effective on the date of receipt at AMA Headquarters of a properly completed application and correct dues payment."

If a potential member were to make application at a sanctioned event, the CD IS an agent and, when paid, the membership is in force.

In any case, clubs are chartered by the AMA. Most will not allow flying, or membership in the club, for that matter, until the potential club member can prove membership in the AMA. There are three things I am aware of that most clubs accept as proof. One is the reciept from a CD, one is the AMA membership card, and some clubs will accept a "screen shot" of the AMA membership verification from the AMA web site.

Live Wire

What happened to the good old day's when some one at the club would cover for you for a couple of day's if they know that you have applied for AMA!!!!!!

Hossfly

Kind of like picking up hitch-hikers. Gone with the wind. The good ol' US TORT system, and a lot of BAD people kind of push those good-old-days back into the closet.

Pay your way as you go, don't wait until the last minute to take care of business, take care of business yourself and don't be a beggar waiting for someone else to take care of you, and things generally go rather smoothly. NBFD.

abel_pranger

Hey JR-

You forgot to give due credit to DB and his contempt for the hoi polloi AMA members (and prospective members) for that. One incident happens where a claim potentially might be filed against a member whose credit charge for renewal of AMA membership was denied, and Brown axes prompt and assured membership benefits for everyone else. I imagine he has wet dreams about Dave Brown Products being in a position as unfettered by competition as AMA is.

Abel

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

Abel, you are a little behind the times. I heard almost the exact same words from someone in my living room Sunday afternoon.

MikeMc

Send a money order. Sheesh.

BlackB12

My Feedback: (9)

I paid online with a credit card. I'll call today and see if I'm covered in say one week.

Mike

MikeMc

Actually the only reason I know anything about this is because I have a close friend that works in the insurance industry. Considdering this affects my home and auto insurance in other ways besides RC I thought I'd ask. Even a personal check is considdered a contract as soon as you hand it to your agent. It doesn't have to clear. If something happens 5 minutes later you're still covered. It's based on the assumption the check is good not on the assumption the check is bad. If the check is bad then it gets complicated, but if you have an accident and the check clears 2 weeks after the accident you are still covered even though it had not clear at the time of the accident.

ok, now I can breath. I'm shutting up now.

Crashem

MikeMC,

The operative word in your defination is "agent". And as JR already pointed out that the AMA is not an "agent" EXCEPT for the situation where you pay the CD at a sanctioned event. In that case you are correct that the insurance is in force at the time payment is made to the CD.

J_R

Hi MikeMc

Your last post brings us back to the point that the AMA is not an insurance company. The liability policy is through Westchester Surplus Lines Insurance Company http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...urance0325.asp . The AMA is not licensed to sell insurance in California, or any other state, as far as I know.

A captive insurance company has been created, but not activated or funded. The captive would require licensing in each state. Each state has it’s own laws and regulations when it comes to insurance, so what you know about your personal insurance may or may not be accurate in other states.

The coverage provided by the AMA is more closely akin to the insurance an employer might supply to an employee (bad analogy, but better than viewing the AMA as an insurance company). The employer is not an insurance company either… at least not in most cases.

MikeMc

OK, however you want to twist it. AMA was authorized to accept money on behalf of insurance company X therefor it still binds insurance comapany X to provide insurance at the time the money was accepted. You're still covered even if it's not by the AMA directly. This changes nothing. You know the laws on accepting money for services are pretty simple. What are you trying to say? AMA can collect money and then the authorized insurance company doesn't have to provide insurance? I don't think so.

J_R

What I am saying is that there is no insurance until the AMA processes the application.

The coverage provided is subject to change as well, as is the company that provides coverage. The AMA application is for a membership/license from the AMA. It is not an insurance application. If you don't think there is a difference, you are sadly mistaken. It is entirely possible that the coverage could be lowered, raised or changed or even deleted.

This statement is also in the hard copy membership application: "Actual cost of dues and amount of insurance coverage is subject to change."

J_R

This is not just a technical argument. Two years ago, it went down to the last couple of days before there was an offer on the table for the EC to consider. It was possible that the coverage may well have changed. Since the AMA policy runs 3/31 to 3/31, IIRC, and the memberships run till 12/31, there is not way the AMA can know, for a fact, that coverage will be available for the balance of the membership year. That is one of the reasons the captive was formed. It is also unlikely that the captive could supply the current limits on liability coverage.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

what jr isn't saying here, is

the first day of every insurance cycle fer the ama is


april fools day.


kinda appropriate, aint it?

BlackB12

My Feedback: (9)

I called and the lady said I and NOT covered until they process my app from the internet. She said that takes about one week. Then I can be covered but probaly still won't have a card to prove it. So I kind of got some of my question answered.

Mike

smokingcrater

sounds like the AMA better get their story straight... take a look at the fine print on the bottom of the
[link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/902.pdf]2005 member app[/link]

Insurance coverage is effective on the date of receipt at AMA Headquarters of a properly completed application and correct dues payment.

MikeMc

Wow. AMA is NOT and insurance company but yet insurance is affective when they recieve the money and application. Who would have ever guessed.

Crashem

MikeMc,

I think you're thinking a little too far outside of the box on this one

Before you can make any statement you need to find out exactly what the AMA considers "correct dues payment"

If it is simply the receipt of payment (i.e. Receipt of Check, Money Order, or credit card info) then you are correct. IF however it is defined that correct dues payment is that the money order check or credit card must First be processed before a membership is active then you are incorrect.

I remember several years ago speaking with the AMA and I was specifically told that a membership is not considered Active UNTIL the funds clear the AMA. Since the insurance is a benefit of membership I think you can understand why your arguement is faulty.

BlackB12,

Did you ask them about the policy of faxing you proof of membership to use while waiting for your card to Arrive. I know that last year I let my membersip lapse (God Forbid) for the winter and paid in April. about a week later I used the web site to print out proof of membership which allowed me to fly at the club before my card arrived in the mail