I love the .............they fight to keep frequencies..............line

Keep at it! The AMA for the most part for you is good insurance, that can help you access flying sites, and keep folks off your back. The magazine, while totally commercial oriented, IMO, is a good source of info of what other fellow AMA members and clubs are doing. It also give rise to interests in other aspects of the Hobby: Electric, Gas, Giant Scale, Foamies, Helis, FF, Gliders, etc.
As for a commercial, Yes, they need a commercial badly. Perhaps a down low inverted pass from a 46% Extra in full smoke, then have Chip Hyde, Sean McMurtry, and others emerge from th smoke and say a few inspiring words.......Of course the AMA would have sign off on the idea, and that could take years.
But Keep at it, and I hope to see you and your friend at a field in the future, as I travel around to the various cool places with flying fields. Oh, btw Im 43. Think this hobby cant be a generation gap bridger? think again.

The AMA should NOT be growing !!!!! Half of its members don't even fly, they never did and they never will. Let them go join the LPGA !!!!!! or The Concorde Coalition !!!!! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE !!!!!! SHRINK AMA SHRINK !!!!!

Interesting observation/opinion. There does seem to be an inordinate amount of members that wish to control others rather than focus on their flying skills at many club fields. Hmmmm....Maybe, just maybe the “flying� membership is greater than ever. One can only hope! Maybe the AMA is not really shrinking so much as it is realigning for the new age hobbyists of the 21ST century.

At least here, the average flyer’s age has dropped considerable and the level of flying proficiency has increased greatly from that of just a few years ago. Also, there have been many new AMA memberships due to the increase in activity in this area. Around here, AMA is alive and growing very well! So is the model enthusiast population in general AMA or not.

The overall down turn of AMA may just be the cycling necessary for it to grow to new heights. Hopefully, the new hobbyists can continue to endure the growth killing, overbearing and control happy, politically oriented club flag waving, the sky is falling, let’s make a new rule a week contest to save everyone from perils and dangers of the hobby mentality, so that promoting the development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity can be the prime directive once again. The self serving mentality of the past and present is the biggest factor for the retarding or lack of growth of the hobby we have had. I have witnessed this first hand and understand it in a way that few ever will.

The future will be totally different no matter what we want. For us to spend our precious time fighting the inevitable is ridiculous and would be an exercise in futility.

So take some time and look around! We are extremely lucky to have at our command the options available to us right now. If you haven’t tried an electric model, do yourself a favor and try one. If you haven’t tried an ARF, do yourself and try one. If you haven’t tried a heli, do yourself a favor and try one. If you haven’t built your own model from scratch, do yourself and try one. It is all good…nothing bad…just different that’s all.

The AMA has done some really good things recently to open the doors a little wider for those that would like a glimpse inside but more is needed from the AMA and especially the chartered clubs.

bdavison : right on! great post, Don't forget club fees that are at least if not more than AMA fees( my clubs $60 a year)we just lost our field to a tree farmer, I've got a field a mile sq' three houses down a permission to use it( belongs to a buddy of mine) Im no longer a member an don't think I'll ever reup till AMA sorts this stuff out, I do sometimes miss read'in bout the nats and I've got six Q500's that will prob'ly never race again ( gave two away last month) your bub, scoooper

red: good post sep "Anyone seen any free sailing lessons given by the local sailing clubs? " I've been giving free sailing lessions for 40 years, closer to flying than you may think, If you give you time the rewards just keep comi'n But when a shrink tells ya "my fees are high but pay'in helps make you better", count you change, your bub, scoooper

red: I just reread my post an OOP's I really did'nt mean to sound unrespectfull ( I need to proof read, darnjavascript:void(AddText('[]'))
javascript:void(AddText('[]')) your sitehttp://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/top.htm
The Battery Clinic - By Red Scholefield, an your bio, wow! thanks for the great info you bring to our sport, I'll look forward to your posts, thanks, you bub, scoooper PS heres my newist and thanks to you I know she'll handle eight cells!!!! thanks again

Here's the deal: There is this big club mentality where you can't run anything on the field, no matter how small, slow, and light unless you have the AMA insurance and pay the club dues. And if all RC activity is restricted in a given community, that leaves only one option, the AMA field. The trouble is, clubs often don't spend the time recruiting new members, and their fees can be somewhat outlandish in some cases. So what is a budding hobbyist with a new plane from Toys -R- Us to do? I guess the toy goes in the closet and eventually turns up at a rummage sale because there's no place to fly it without paying at least three times what the toy was bought for!

And then we have these clubs that don't want to provide a club trainer to give introductory flights with, so the modeler is stuck with spending $299.95 at the local hobby shop for something that at least makes buying the insurance and paying the added fees worthwhile, just to see whether or not they at least want to get into this hobby. Why in the world should it cost somebody $400.00 ($250.00 for a park flyer, and $150.00 for AMA and club membership) to find out whether or not they want to learn how to operate a remote control aerial device? Do people get the point here? Remember all those plastic Tester's, Wen-Mac, and Cox control-line models that used to line the shelves of the local K-Mart? Ever wonder why they're not there any more? What is a model airplane worth if there's no place to run it?

I think offering some time on the buddy box and a club trainer would have helped greatly in this case. Instead of kicking Electro-Fly off the field, couldn't the situation have been handled with a bit more tact? I bet a couple minutes on the box with the trainer would have been a good start, and may have even landed a potential new club member and a few new sales at the local hobby shops. And then there's this issue with finding places to fly. What is being done to promote electric park flying as a safe and fun activity for families to enjoy? How can a 3 ounce foam model be much different from an Estes model rocket (or are those even allowed any more)? Back in the day, the sounds of a Cox .049 engine was a common occurrence, and the plastic models were a LOT harder, heavier, louder and faster than the typical foamy that's out there now. People had a bit more common sense and nobody that I know of associated the expression "model airplane" with "ballistic missile".

NorfolkSouthern

This thread sparked an interest in getting AMA membership numbers. On their site, I found AMA's finacial statements, which showed a increase in membership revenue in the last 5 years, from $6.9 million to $7.7 million, if memory serves correctly.

Alright well I have some questions about the AMA and I don't know where else a bette rplace to post it is...

I am under 18 and I'm in Nebraska. I've flown my club trainer on a buddy box but I have a few questions. I'm waiting for my AMA number to get here so I can join my local club, but I have had the urge to fly the last 2 weeks waiting for the ama to hurry up and give me my number. But any ways, what kind of "insurrence" do they even provide? I mean if you crash then what happens? Surely they don't replace your airplane, what do they do? Also I saw some one talking about buddy boxing without an AMA license. While I'm waiting for my license can I fly buddy box with a local trainer? Thanks! Also yeah, I'm almost 16 and my local club doesn't have any one under the age of like 25 or something I don't think? It's pretty sad...

To answer the first question, the insurance protects you in case you damage someone else's property or cause injury. It means that they'll pay to fix the paint on a car that your plane crashes into due to a radio malfunction and so forth. Or, it will pay for some stitches caused by your prop digging into someone else's hand because your "helper" could not see the arc of your APC prop, among the examples. I'm afraid you'll have to fix your own airplane if you crash it, like you would have to fix your own car if you go into a ditch. The second one is a bit lengthy, but I'll do my best:

In quite a few clubs, the idea of time on a buddy box without AMA and your own plane is out of the question. I was talking to one club treasurer, and he said that you can't even get an introductory flight without AMA membership, and you have to have the card to show for. Even then, it's only when some club member wishes to dig out his own trainer and lose some time on his big stunter with a motorcycle engine. Really, I'm serious here! Also, many if not most R/C fields are fenced off and posted with "no trespassing" signs, meaning that outsiders are not welcome on the premises unless there's a public event. Flying model airplanes is not what it used to be. Rather than a hobby, it's becoming a sport like golf where a sort of "country club membership" is mandatory in some cases.

So what's the other option? Well, you have to dig VERY hard to find a club that uses a municipal field, and does not require membership (I know of only one in my local area). You'll still need to buy the AMA insurance and have an AMA card to fly in their field, but you can sometimes get away with an instructor offering their time on the club trainer. Some instructors will give a free introductory flight, and the AMA will cover the student as long as the instructor has control of the buddy box. But after that, it's up to the student to purchase their own plane and then pay for the AMA. The good thing is that club membership is not mandatory on some fields (a very small number of fields), so it can be done with less capital outlay.

I think most people get into flying models because they know of others who do it. It starts with a sense of curiosity over how something looks, sounds, and operates. They hear a friend or relative say something like "I know this guy with this little airplane that runs by remote control, it's cool!". Sometimes this results in a trip to a local hobby shop, or perhaps to an actual flying field if directions are given. Hopefully, a hobby shop with a simulator (Real Flight G3, for example) in operation gets to be the starting point. Because if it's the club first, the potential guest can get scared off by the starting costs and insurance requirements. The key here, though, is to give someone who has never had exposure to the hobby a chance to at least try it once. And then, there has to be a way to make the flying affordable once the model and starting equipment gets purchased. So, we have some hobby shops and a small number of clubs that introduce new members to the hobby, but not many. I can see the park flyers increasing in popularity, as long as local laws don't prevent them from flying in parks and empty school yards. But I seriously doubt the hobby will be as popular as it was during the 1950s, '60s, and '70s. At least, not until the costs match the fundamentals.

Lastly, there's this thing about age. Why can't clubs, or even the AMA present model planes like companies present good video games? In all honesty, younger folks who have played or grew up with video games are easily attracted to this hobby AS LONG AS THEY GET SOME EXPOSURE TO IT. If teens and young adults don't see model airplanes, they don't know the the difference and aren't likely to care much. Think about why cars are more popular these days, people. Model planes are the more extreme version of model cars, they can be as fun if not more so! But first, some barriers have to be removed and R/C needs to be more accepted by the public. A part of all this is advertising (advertising that appeals to the younger set), exposure, and affordability. Above all else, it needs to become more affordable so more people can get into it. I often just long for the days when a Cox model could be heard at the empty soccer field or baseball diamond. I guess that's all a pipe dream now.

NorfolkSouthern

For whatever reason, the AMA, at the national level, has done very little to make the general public aware of model aviation. This has been my major gripe for many years. Whatever has been done has been done mostly by local clubs and local members. These local efforts are to be praised and encouraged. One can object that there have been events for the public at Muncie, and Grand Events here and there, but these are still no more than local advertising. There needs to be some real thought and effort put into how do we, the AMA, make our national public aware of model aviation.

My own thought, often iterated, is that the AMA should use competition for publicity. This is what all the other sports who compete with us for space, public resources, and public attention do. I do recall seeing RC combat at one of the Nats on TV. There needs to be more of this.

Jim Thomerson said:
My own thought, often iterated, is that the AMA should use competition for publicity.

Unfortunately, most of the competition in model aviation do not present well to the public. The only events that do seem to attract the public are Top Gun, RC Scale, Indoor RC, 3D events and maybe some of the combat events. The precision aerobatics type events just are too hard to appreciate by the general public.

My 2 cents worth.

Paul

Dave Brown seems to know that the problem is and has been.

CCR

It's not about competition. A lot of it is about recreation and social status, just like Dave Brown wrote in that article posted above. Sadly, the social status can take some prominence over recreation and enjoyment, just like the sport of golf. I just visited a club earlier today, only to be asked to take my plane back home because I was not a member of the club. Although I have an AMA membership, and all precautions were taken (transmitter switched off and battery unplugged, same on the plane its self). I did not feel welcome there. I suppose it would have been different if I were driving a shiny new SUV, and an FAA medical to show for (I'm being a bit sarcastic here, but you get the picture).

I am going to try a different club, and hope those folks have some more common sense. If that doesn't work, the plane won't be up for sale. Instead, it will stay with me for the rest of my life. It will be well preserved and cared for. I will find a way to display it prominently in my living room, along with my expired AMA card. That model will stand testimony as to why the hobby has declined over the years: exclusivity of membership where newcomers to the hobby are essentially unwelcome.

NorfolkSouthern

Geee, what about just having MA put into book stores? Or would that be too easy?

In reply to nobody


So why is the AMA not growing? Could it be because of leadership? Could it be because of membership? Management? Old ideas? New ideas? Old farts? Young farts? Irresponsible people? Legal reasons? Blaming others for your own mistakes? Others blaming you for their mistakes? Attitudes? Electrics? Regulations? ARF's? These are all reasons that I've seen given as reason for the AMA's problems. So, to answer the questions. I'm the reason the AMA is not growing.

Okay, Okay, I admit it. I haven't pitched the idea of a flying field to anyone. I haven't soloed any pilots.(helped train a few though) I've annoyed people in the ways that I have flown. Sure I've helped encourage model aviation in many ways, but look at what I haven't done. The AMA hasn't been much help to me, but I've been to lazy to find out what I need to do. I've just sat back and had fun. I haven't been actively recruiting others. My life is tied around other things and model aviation is just a hobby for me.

Now, comes the question that I struggle with. Would it be irresponsible for me to thy to publicize the AMA in my own ways? Let's say I put an AMA sticker on my electric foamie ARF and fly it in a public place. Sure, I'll get lots of questions, but when does the AMA get any business. If I did this I would surely get flamed by some of the membership/leadership and I could become a thorn in the side of the AMA. I could also not be helping the AMA, but helping model aviation and starting "rogue" clubs. Would it be Helpful if the AMA put the info in, say, MA? yes. Is the AMA to blame for not putting this information in an obvious place? NO!! If I really cared, I would look for it. Them's the beans.


50%

EDIT: spelling

No he doesn't, and he hasn't learned a damned thing in the past nine years that have passed since he wrote that. He knew everything then as now, ergo it is pointless to listen to anybody else.

From that DB column: "I am not sure that the average member the AMA today is concerned about the growth of the hobby. In fact, I am reasonably sure he or she doesn't care."

I cared then and I care now about the growth of the hobby. I want it to be thriving and accessible when my grandson is ready, and for his siblings, children and grandchildren to follow. Back then I cared about the growth of AMA, because growth of the hobby seemed to be vested in AMA. Now, the hobby is growing despite AMA, and its hardheaded, unwavering MO to exact homage from potential modelers (and AMA members) before granting them an opportunity to try it out. I'm encouraged about the growth and future of the hobby now, thanks to park fliers and the new breed of suppliers that support them, much moreso than I was when DB wrote that column. In the intervening years the only thing of any substance AMA has done to get out of the way of members that are concerned about bringing new members into the chartered clubs ala the AMA model are recent efforts by Dave Mathewson and whomever lends him support to mold the Intro Pilot program into something viable. Whether or not it will produce any results remains to be seen. The GOB's are staying the course of keeping AMA exclusive and monkey wrenching that effort whenever they can, e.g., the crap about charging clubs a fee per Intro Pilot enrolled. Not that five or ten bucks per head is a great sum, but the notion of clubs having to pay AMA for the privilege of recruiting AMA members is rude, to use a euphemism that doesn't adequately express my low opinion of it, but might pass muster with Bubba.

Abel

Maybe I am naive and overwhelmed by my own interests. But I do not understand the objection that competition is difficult to present to the public. I could certainly present what I do in a way that I would find interesting. Maybe a few other folks would find it interesting also. I am afraid I see this as an example of can't never could. I've had a half dozen or so local newspaper articles over the years. The best was full page coverage of an indoor free flight contest in the front section of the old St. Louis Globe Democrat. Like how exciting is indoor freeflight? If the audience understands the challenge and the awesome results, then it can be pretty interesting.

The reason the AMA is not growing is because of so much misinformation posted by you guys. below

"As was stated, I like my foamy and electric planes for what they are "Parkflyers". I like my glow planes and Gas to go out to the flying field and tear up the skies. "


All electrics are not park flyers A converted sig wonder does 108 MPH on only 8 cells.

Lets face it when i want to go sport flying i take my ugly stik 40 or scale mustang and thats whats there for, but when i want to tear up the skies i take my fast electric. It flies rings around every plane in the whole club

yea, but can you put smoke out without killing the bird?

Lets face it. Its our fault for not putting those AMA decals on our automobiles. That would have done it.

Considering that most Dads aren't the least bit mechanical anymore and considering most kids don't tinker around in the old man's shop like we did ; I would consider holding our numbers steady as a victory in todays society. Although I am a builder, I think ARF's have practically saved the hobby. Most of the guys That I fly with now have never built a plane or built anything, ( not even a model car).
ITs a freaking miracle we have maintained the numbers that we have. I say the glass is half full !

The AMA is not growing simply because of the fact that 50%Plane is a member.

Honestly the only real solution to the AMA membership discussion would be competition. I'm not sure of how many of you remember the SFA (sports Flyers Association)? The membership dues was reasonable, and the coverage etc was comparable with the AMA. Unfortunately SFA went into litigation wtih the AMA (AMA did not like the competition) and forced the SFA into non-existence. When the SFA was around, that was the only time I was a member of any aircraft modeler association.. I have been flying since 1983.. Many times I have thought of joining the AMA, but for the few times a year (less than three) I fly my large models, it does not seem worth it (obvoiusly if I crashed it would, but..). I honestly wish someone would bring back the SFA, and I would join in an instant.. I may join the AMA eventually but since I'm on active duty Navy, there are times in a year where I just can't get out to fly, maybe in six years when I retire, but until then...

Easy in print, but not reality and a simple reason at that. For one thing you can't just put a magazine on a shelf, you have to sell the concept to the book stores and that takes a sales force, which you have to pay. Also the bulk of the people that "want" the AMA magazine are already getting it for free so the bookstores competition are getting banged up real good from their supplier/competitor. The bookstores and mag shops know the game real well, there is no way to pull wool over their eyes. At the end of the day they need to sell the magazine, not just let it sit on the shelf as free advertising for the AMA. This is why you don't see EAA's or AOPA's magazine on any shelves either, same reason.

Most big box books stores will let you test market your rag and let it sit on the shelves for 3 months and if there is no sell through, you get to buy them ALL back. I have a feeling that AMA would be buying a lot of magazines.