I have seen Model Aviation for sale in hobby shops. Can we suppose the majority of people who enter hobby shops are not AMA members, but some might be interested? Would it be a good idea for the AMA to advertise the magazine as available to hobby shops, maybe for a very low price or even free? Maybe supply unsold back issues to hobby shops. I've seen Model Airplane News and Aviation Modeler International on sale in bookstores a number of times. As said, these magazines do not have MA's subscriber base. Sending you and me MA is basically preaching to the choir.

Of course the AMA should send magazines to hobby shops, but hobby shops still have to pay for the issues at MA's cost. At the end of the day the hobby shop needs to see what makes them money first before they start doing favors for others, even the AMA. So if Fly RC is going to sell through better and AMA is going to sit on the rack, they are going to focus on what makes them more money. MA should at least change the artwork on the cover to make it more eye catching first as the cover is what sells the magazine starting from the title down. But giving it away to hobby shops would only bury the AMA even more and would cause a complete uprising agmonst the members.

How about this reason... My club is aged and likes it to remain at 30 members. We're lucky if there is anyone flying during the week, and have maybe 10 members flying on saturday or sunday. I admit is is nice. But as soon as somebody mentions a open house or something that might attract new members, forget it. No body's interested (the majority) because they're afraid of something. I can't seem to figure it out, weather it's their age, or what. My fellow clubbies (god bless their hearts) are between 60 and 80. I and a couple of other guys are in their 30's to 40's.

anyone want to comment on this one??? I love my fellow members to death, but it seems that the "reluctance" for change (IE, getting new members) and "training" want to be pilots is beyond them.

MPB

Simple, most AMA members care about one thing, themselves. This is why RC is just one of several aviation hobbies I've pursue. Get into full scale flying, it's the complete opposite and not as expensive as you think. You can even build you own planes, real cheap, less then a decent 40% plane.

You are correct in that full-scale can cost considerably less, STLPilot. It can even be less than the cost of getting into R/C with a trainer. For one, a small plane can be chartered for around $75.00, for a full hour, which includes the certified flight instructor and aviation fuel. A model will set you back a minimum of $300.00, plus you have to have AMA (another $60.00) and club membership in many areas ($135.00). The initial costs total at least $450.00 minimum if you add the cost of glow fuel and the required accessories. The cost of the field is not included in to total. If you go up on a full scale plane once per month, you could get at least 6 months of flying in for the same cost as getting started in R/C.

Oh, by the way. Most clubs will require the R/C pilot to purchase their own plane, because they only use club trainers for introductory flights. You also need all the tools, fuel, and starting accessories. AMA insurance is mandatory at all sanctioned fields, and club dues are mandatory in most (a $150.00 cost up front before any time on the buddy box).

For the record: You don't even need to be a pilot to get into full-scale. You don't need to own a plane. You don't need to pay for insurance. It's all figured in the hourly cost. I guess model aviation isn't as accessible as I thought.

NorfolkSouthern

seems we forgot to mention the sum of the full sized rentals with Flight Instructor to actually get your wings and fly alone. The good news is it is no longer Minimum 40 hours ( @ $75hr right), but then when you look that the FAA says the average pilot takes 70 hours to get licensed ( yup, that $75hr ) there is a substantial outlay...

wow, $75 is less than getting a RC trainer plane & whole setup.
wow, $75 x 30-70 hours to get a license is more.... by several thousand dollars.

I was about $2500 into it just to get to solo as a student pilot (Cable, by ONT), and there is no way I can afford to finish without Lottery Intervention.
Instead, I just bought 4 motors nib from the factory outlet for ~$28 bucks, and a BIG box of LoneStar balsa for $60... and some 25cent glue from Wallyworld.... DOCULAM- got a 500' roll of a knockoff for twenty something w/ free shipping. I am looking at maybe 40 planes for about $100.

To actually take flight training as a student pilot, then get the pilot's license, yes it does cost considerably more than flying models, KidEpoxy. With that, I absolutely agree. I was making my statement on the assumption that a full-scale plane is chartered along with the pilot, rather than actually being used for lessons. The most likely application for this would be aerial photography. I did quote the price of the Cessna 150 wrong, though. The actual cost is $69.00 plus $40.00 for the instructor, per hour. Sorry about the error, but I ended up checking at the local FBO after my post.

As for aerial photography, I see a great potential for growth here, as a manned aircraft just can't get into the places that a small line of sight UAV can. There is one company that now makes blimps that are small in size, yet serve the purpose very well. Helicopters can also be used, and fixed wing is probably the most cost effective type of aircraft to consider. Perhaps the AMA could promote aerial photography as a practical use for the models, as it may attract the interest of people looking into vocational interests. I know I would like to think of more uses for my plane, rather than just flying around at the local club.

NorfolkSouthern

The info in the article below is more than likely the major cause of why AMA is not growing. Tell the public that if they get into the hobby, they will be taught to how to fly. But the fine print isn't revealed until after they join. For all intents and purposes there is no real solution to this situation.

http://www.rc-float-flying.rchomepag...instructor.htm

CCR

There was a long article an a local paper about a local company who uses RC flying wings to do photo surveillance. Said they had located a couple of dead bodies with fairly small amounts of flying time after ground searches had failed. When you go commercial like that, I think you are in a whole nother world from hobby RC.

The reason the AMA is not growing is because of electrics and also because of the recent drop in price. Big companies like Apex have prices for half what thier competition wants for LIpos. Another large company buys LIpo cells from overseas and makes up thier own packs once in the states, once again thier price is half of what you see at the LHS or Poly sites. Lipos are not expensive anymore unless you buy the ones that put out 80--100 amps. Sport flyers dont need 25--40C batteries. The wait is over check out some 11.1v batteries on ebay really cheap now a 37 amp battery is fine.

Also Ive never had a park flyer or foamie my first electric was 62 inches and 3 and half pounds. Has fiberglass fuse and sheeted wings it beats gas ugly sticks like thier standing still turns a 10X8 prop apc type not a plastic park flyer one.

I'm still going with this theory.

Logically, if no one is serious about giving hands-on promotion to the public and beginners, the hobby and AMA cannot possibly grow. Although no one can really place blame as there is really no significant motivation to do so, except that of the profit making end and they have put all of the eggs in the sole basket of the nonprofit oriented end of the hobby/sport. Like mixing oil and water.

Anyway, whatever anyone thinks, there is more than likely a 99% chance that nothing will be done now or in the future to change this downwards direction. If anyone has a readily available real solution, let him speak now or forever hold his peace.

CCR

Flyers1

I think your 99% number is a bit low.

The membership will continue to fall and I'll add
that it's only going to get worse in the very near
future. I'll also add that the dwindleing of membership/
interest in many other areas outside our hobby will
happen too. I may be wrong on this but I believe that even
the AMA has made mention of this many years ago.

The reason......the baby boomers are getting old and
when we eventually stop or slow down whatever it is that
we do , there will not be enough people with the same
interest to fill the void.

So, don't be too concerned.

Regards
Roby

You should change your name over to ShortBus.

Blah blah blah. Give us a break. Pull my other leg and it will play Jingle Bells too. You sold on this theory as well? Yeah that DB can really sell a BS pitch to HIS members. Failure is a result of poor leadership and poor creativity. Both of which the EC lacks from the top down. Except for a couple of them, Dave M especially. The only thing getting old are the guys bringing the AMA down. There is PLENTY of room for expansion in USA, don't believe that crap for a second.

STL pilot

You sound just like one of my kids several back.

I more clearly understand your reply after reviewing
your profile.

Roby

I've been beating my head against the wall for 3 decades trying to get the AMA and RC industry to work with me on helping the hobby to not only to survive, but to grow. IMHO, the only people who really paid attention and showed they really cared and actually did something positive was Horrace Cain, Dave Mathewson and STLpilot. I'm sure there must be others, but I firmly believe that if those 3 were in charge, AMA and the hobby/sport of RC aeromodeling would not be in the mess it's currently in.

CCR

I agree. However, do you think we can hog tie them to Muncie? Hoss said he's not running again. STL is starting his own "AMA". With one of three there, I don't see much chance of change.

Just wishful thinking I guess. lol Seems like everyone should agree a change is absolutely necessary.
Not to knock anyone at AMA headquarters, but I guess when there is something on the order of $7 million in the bank, as far as those who do get paid continue to get paid are concerned...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. lol

CCR

"change is absolutely necessary " Why ?

It would seem that for the most part the average
AMA member could care less one way or the other
about any particular issue.

For many the AMA is already everything that it
needs to be.

Roby

I wonder if those who loss or are in the process of losing their flying field, feel the same? It seems that those who currently have use of a flying field and are able to fly on their own tend to be sitting fat and happy. They are usually the AMA member who could care less one way or the other. Two words that may strike fear in the hearts of RC aeromodelers everywhere...urban sprawl. lol

CCR

Because the EC has convinced it's naive members that the reason the membership is declining is because of the average age of the current AMA and that is just FALSE. The membership declines year after year and they decided it was not a good idea to envoke term limits.

Now ... what's wrong with this picture???

Nothing is wrong with the picture.

There are very good arguments to be made for and against term limits and the EC decided against them. Read my post regarding term limits that came from DB and the EC. It's almost split 50-50 for and against and both sides make some very good points.
Term limits are not the problem, nor the solution to the problem. As a previous poster said, for the vast majority of AMA members, AMA is doing just fine in meeting their needs, whether it's insurance, MA, etc. The only time you'll get a reaction from the membership is when a rule impacts their little corner of the world. Since most members are sport fliers, and very few rules are proposed that impact that group, is it any wonder that the vast majority are content with the AMA, EC and the staff at Muncie.
Jon

A drop in price for lipo and electric won't necessarily impact AMA membership, as many AMA members fly electrics on the field too, just as much as gas. Membership is declining mostly due to lack of time and interest by the public, and member's unwillingness to promote the hobby. Sure, electrics can out sell gas 5 to 1, and they do. Most of those, however, are park flyers that people buy because a big field is not necessary to fly them in. Any school or shopping center parking lot will do, thank you very much. So, what happens when model airplanes go commercial and people fly for profit instead of recreation? It will happen, bet on it! There's money and profit involved here. Unfortunately, more commercialization will result in more regulation, making it increasingly difficult for even the park flyers to get started in the hobby. Who's going to chance flying their $99.00 electric in a school parking lot in a county where R/C is illegal when a cop might see it? Take a look at Orange County, California.

These days, cars and trains are a big thing. I know of one hobby shop that had only a few R/C aircraft and boats stocked, but gobs of model cars (nitro and electric) of every variety one could think of a couple years ago. The shop even had a car track right next to the business. No field required, no lake required, no parking lot needed, no insurance expense, no dues, just buy the model, charge it up, and go. There's a convenience and time factor involved here, folks. People will do whatever recreation is most easily accessible, both in convenience and price. I know of a few other hobby shops that sell nothing but trains, and they are all very profitable. Sure you can "crash" an O-27 guage locomotive that costed $400.00, but then you can put it right back on the track and run it again. No fuss, no muss, no risk.

NorfolkSouthern

Term limits have nothing directly to do with declining membership. Indirectly it might, but only if people taking the seats of members retired by term limits do a better job to make AMA attractive to new members - a distinct possibility, but not a sure thing.
There seems to be an inversion of logic in the argument that membership is declining because the average age of members is increasing. It is sensible in a way if you consider that members are more likely to die off as they grow older, and without replacement, the rate of decline should be expected to increase.
A more rational nexus between average age of members and declining rolls is pretty obvious: If new members aren't joining at or near the average age of current members at the time they joined, or fewer members are joining than leaving (a given, as membership is declining), then the average age of members must increase, as has been observed.
Young people are not finding AMA attractive and hence do not join, and that is why membership is both declining and getting older on average. Doesn't mean young people aren't interested in model aviation (PFs amply demonstrate otherwise), just not AMA.
What's wrong with that picture?

Abel