gow589

My Feedback: (1)

Good post Abel, the rehtoric was getting so silly it wasn't worth responding to.

Gary

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Wow abel from Flor DA, Just kidding.

What ever it takes, Great. We will hope to see you next weekend or so up here in Missouri. I must see someone that can be my judge. Appointed not my anyone but himself. I have not ever seen a RC club hobby guy in person but I am looking forward to it.

Now due to this was an empty threat, I understand you must see alot of poor flyers down there. Maybe it time to move up here where you can find a hobby called RC flying. I will be happy to show you.

I just got back from eating out with a city guy that just moved down here. He shared a few points of a city club with 100+ members. It appears that the well managed clubs needs club hobby guys due to city clubs go with let the other guy do it and not GET R DONE.

3D will not go away. FACT The 3D flyer overall is the pilot that has more control over their airplanes. FACT. Flying over the pits, over people is wrong. I have never said it was right. It is WRONG and their AMA should be pulled. Flying over the flight line is is 100% ok. If it was not the AMA would have a rule against it. They like rules.

For all the clubs that need club hobby guys, I am so sorry. For those in a club with club hobby guys, GET OUT. in a few years the club will be no more. A rc club needs flyers and when you all leave there will be no money to keep the club hobby guys going. You then can go back and fly for the fun of it.

Look, our club is a club of 50+ and we do not see any of your problems. This thread is about Dave being anti 3D. He is and if he was not the prez. Thats ok. But when the prez of the AMA states what he did, THAT WAS WRONG and Dave needs to step down or learn to fly again. If he flys again, he will not make dumb statements.

Crash99

3dbob37n

Don't you just love it when someone is so critical of someone who has volunteered his time and money year after year and gets almost nothing out of it.
I wish some of you whiners would put your efforts where their mouth are.
DB is just fine and does a hell of a good job, a job that you probably would not even be able to do. DB is far from being anti 3d and whoever started this is dead wrong. He is pro safety.

3d bob in the mountains

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

whiners ? Hello, No one here is is performing that task. Dave's write up was very anti 3D and is anyone did not see it they might want to read it.

3dbob37n, Can you tell me what Dave has done for us excluding spending our money? Am I critical? Yes I am when I see the Prez of the AMA makes such a write up.

Pro safety? no. Killer of RC flying? he is trying. So with a 3D name, I am sure you never perform any flight that is above the newest pilot at your field. If you have or do, Then Dave is telling you to stop. We might as well put up all of our airplanes except for a trainer.

Come on 3D, After you read the write up then respond. I have put is years as well and I enjoy every RC flight. I enjoy training a new pilot to flying 3D. I will not stop flying 3D when people is around. It is my right. I am a vet and I think I deserve the freedom to fly with in the rules.

Crash99

gow589

My Feedback: (1)

Oh no, the sky is falling!

js3

My Feedback: (3)

Crash99,

What does being a vet have to do with flying R/C airplanes? Does being a vet give you rights that non-vets don't, or shouldn't have?

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

This entire thread follows a predictable course. If the writings in 60 years of magazines can affirm anything this is the same song another verse.
We have the out of touch head of the organization in conflict with those that are pursuing the current hottest segements of the hobby. Howling in the chorus are those that don't like change because they cannot be part of it and those that always want to drag things to the lowest common denominator.
I am past the point in my career to be a competent 3-d flyer but that doesn't mean that it is not revelant to the sport. Like every other development it will appear to eclipse the sport before it settles down to the hard core followers.
Going backwards from present to past take a look at how the following types of flying and and planes have advanced or endangered the hobby. Fun flyers,remember those turning and flipping over the runway? How about unlimited racers that made noise that could be heard for miles,flew faster than 200 mph and spread parts for hundreds of feet when they went in? Or big birds with their converted weed whacker and chain saw engines flying about on servos that put out 40 to 50 oz in of torque shedding control surfaces and collapsing wings. They were fighting to get the weight limits raised from 15 lbs to 35 lbs with "experts" predicting the end of the sport as we knew it should that happen.
Before that it was mono line speed ships versus two lines and the dangers of controline combat ships getting loose. Even the freeflight world was upset about vertical take offs and pylon mounted wings.
What will pull the hobby down are those that feel that they can do anything they want any where they want and let others worry about the details of keeping a flying site going or training new pilots. Those that take advantage of the efforts of others and give nothing back are a lot more dangerous to this hobby than those hanging a plane on its prop.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

How tragic, supremely confident of his command of the air, yet unable to make a cogent argument.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

The simple issue is 3D is not the risk taker. 3D flyers have more control than any other flyer due to skill level. The true risk takers are new and old flyers. New due to they have no skills yet. Old , not their fault but eye's start to fail and skills start to decline. Will I take time to help these groups? Yes, every weekend is the norm. I can always fly during the week after work.

My point is Dave is anti 3D and the write up was completely wrong. If you can not see that, Bash away if that makes you feel better but facts are the facts. Safety? I do not think that was the point completely. We should not stop 3D flight. Most 3D is slow flight using prop blast for flying.

How you guys defend this? I can not get it. This thread went to many issue on anti 3D. Controllers to left hand turning flyers to people that have lost the love of flight.

Vet was also brought up. I served so we can have this free speech. If you have a issue with a vet? Canada is looking for you. Where burning the US flag brings a tear to my eye every time.

Dave has the right to any write up he wants. But if he is completely wrong like in this case he must know there are those who will say that,s wrong. What will be the next write up be? Anti slope flyers? War Birds? Gas motors? We will have to wait and see.


Crash99

3dbob37n

OK, crash- You seem to be oblivious to the suit prone society we are living in right now
and I think if you had been in courts as much as I have in my lifetime, you would be living in fear of doing anything that might be even vaguely dangerous. We have about 30,000 people in our county but the telephone book yellow pages have about 15 full page, full color, ads for lawyers wanting to sue somebody for something. This is an age where burglars sue because they fall through a skylight, a land owner sued because someone was murdered on his vacant wooded property and where people sue because their child was scolded by a teacher for putting graffitti on a school wall, or given an F on their exam. DB has to walk a balance on a mighty fine line and it's a tough job, especially when he gets this sort of flak.
Unfortunately, he must look at the big picture. You can afford to look the other way and not notice what's going on around you. Our insurance costs go up year after year and I think it was Shakespeare that once said, 500 years ago, "First, let's kill all the lawyers." So lets get real and understand what the folks at Hq are dealing with besides our playing with our toys.

3dbob

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

3D,

You have a great point. Then let Dave post up all of the Accidents that were reported to the AMA. Lets see what is causing the Insurance to go up. I have requested this information between 7 - 10 times so far but this information has never been given.

I am sure we can see the big picture after reviewing this data.

Crash99

js3

My Feedback: (3)

I don't have a problem with any veteran unless they feel that because of their veteran status, they are entitled to more than the rest of the population.

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Crash,
AMA will not release any insurance data related about accidents, their cause or the payouts, so save the postage, you're not going to get any info.
AMA has stated that over half of all paid insurance claims have been "trip and fall" accidents that have nothing to do with flying. The biggest claim I believe was for the serious injury (death?) of a small child who fell at a field, hitting his head on a piece of rebar that was stuck in the ground.
DB is against ANYTHING that he perceives as a risk to the insurance coverage. Dave knows that without the AMA offering the insurance, the membership would drop drastically. This is why, periodically, he writes about activities and products that HE envisions as a threat to the insurance, such as turbines, 3D, Giant scale, racing events, LIPO's, etc. Of course, as President he has his bully pulpit every month in MA to air his concerns. What he still doesn't realize is that most members DON'T CARE!
During one of his turbine rants a couple of years ago he threatened to go to the membership about the "hazards" of turbines and why 99% of the members should not support the 1% of modelers having the highest risk of insurance claims; his idea being that there would be a groundswell of opposition from the membership which would support his desire to ban turbines. The following month after his column appeared, I asked around at the various clubs and members at the field and the response was that they hadn't read the column or had no idea what he was talking about! With no support from the membership he caved on the new turbine regulations.
As far as 3D, don't get too upset, Dave will find another target soon and will post his concern's in MA on how dangerous THAT activity is!
Remember, DB's strength comes from FF and C/L, and he likes to rattle the R/Cer's cage every so often to keep his supporters happy. Ever wonder why he never writes about his safety concerns about FF and C/L, well, now you know.
BRG,
Jon

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Here we go. I did get a responce from the AMA.
1. Approimately 80 liability clames and 70 medical per year
2. Most clames happen at chartered fields
3. We have a high rate of sely infleicted injuries from prop running and either pilot or helper comes in contact with the prop
4. poor piloting skills are the most frequent problem

This sounds to me that new and non skilled pilots is the risk taker from the AMA 2004 Trends

Now we know the facts. Its not the 3D flyers its poor skilled and pilots that have not kept them selfs away from a moving prop.

Crash99

gow589

My Feedback: (1)

And that makes it ok for some one who claims to be an above average pilot to do things no one else would even think about. Is hovering in the pits in large scale gas airplanes "OK" if your as "great a pilot" as "crash99". Who get's to be a part of this "Special club"! It's a great example for everyone else who cannot fly as good as "THE CRASH99"

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

gow589

Wow, I have said flying over the pits is wrong. Let me say this again just for you .... F_L_Y_I_N_G ______ O_V_E_R ______ T_H_E ______ P_I_T_S ______ I_S ________ W_R_O_N_G ............ F_L_Y_I_N_G ______ O_V_E_R ________ T_H_E _____ R_U_N_W_A_Y ________ I_S _______ O_K I wrote it slow just for you gow589 so you could get it. You will now have to speed up or stop reading here. [8D]

The point being 3D flyers my be the safest flyers according to the AMA report. They will not give me any more detailed information than I have already received.

Now the question was if your as "great a pilot" as "crash99". Who get's to be a part of this "Special club"! It's a great example for everyone else who cannot fly as good as "THE CRASH99"


Great pilot? Nope just a safe pilot. Special Club YOU BET! One meeting a year and no one has to say anything to another about flying excluding teaching someone how to fly or in FUN. Yes I am proud to say I belong to a SPECIAL CLUB.

Gow589, compared to many many pilots i rank as SUCKING. But I am learning every day I fly and I try to fly 3-5 days a week. Some have said I have skill and when I am asked by schools to come in and fly for the kids, so far I have always said yes.

So Guys, Gow589 makes me out to be a bad person. Judge me but let go flying first. Then you can join Gow589 in bashing.

Thanks
Crash99

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

as a side note I was born in Evansville, IN.

Crash99[X(]

abel_pranger

Gary-

Maybe that wasn't crash99's point. One could conclude from his statements that beginners and old timers whose eyes and reactions aren't what they used to be should be excluded from flying at AMA clubs, and thus make everything safer. Cutting off the newbies would tend to increase the average age of members above the 57+ that already has some alarmed, but that could be compensated for by booting out the old timers early enough - say age 60. As a bonus, this would reduce the overall membership of AMA, and accordingly the liability exposure would also be diminished. Allowing large scale gas airplanes to hover in the pits would also cause some AMA members that fall in between newbie and old-timer to voluntarily quit clubs, reducing the insurance claims yet further. I think he's on to a plan here.

Abel

gow589

My Feedback: (1)

The point was he keep's slamming DB coments on 3D when Dave browns coments were directed toward people such as the high profile JR kid flying his gas airplane in the pits...Not 3d in general. They were specific and diplomatic in that he was trying to state a position without creating more problems.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Abel,

I was just putting out some facts. No you have me wrong along with others. I am proud that our oldest member right before passing was having airplane problems. I helped him fix it so another guy could help him fly that Sunday. He past a few days later. That was my best day at the field. He was such a great guy.

Bashing Dave, I am right. His write up was anti 3D. Gow589 says Dave browns comments were directed toward people such as the high profile JR kid flying his gas airplane in the pits. Hold it GOW. Maybe put on the glasses and show all of us where it stated anything about 1. PROFILES, 2. JR KIDS . I just looked at it again and I just don't see it.

What I do see is someone that think KIDS should not be there to fly. Send them our way. We love kids of all ages.


Crash99
Member of THE SPECIAL CLUB

gow589

My Feedback: (1)

If you were familiar with the issues it was obviouse. The thinned skin 3d'rs just took it the wrong way. Your trashing some one's rep for something they arn't even here to defend; and' can't be. With people who cannot reason such as yourself there is no way he can come here and participate.

3dbob37n

Perhaps Crash 99 has a reading comprehension problem. I have read DB's article twice now and all I got out of it was a warning to fly safely. There wasn't even the slightest reference to 3d. For the record, I will quote two insurance claims that I know of. One was a kid eating at a club picnic table at a flying field, fell off and poked his eye out on a metal rod sticking out of the ground. Another was a club took down their flag pole to paint. It fell off some chocks and landed on a kid, killing him. All of these involve millions of dollars in liability suits plus $400.00 a hour lawyer fees. All of this absorbed by AMA insurance.
This has a lot to do with safety but nothing at all to do with flying.
Club leadership must look beyond what we normally think of as a risk and look at our surroundings as well as maintain safe flying.

3dbob

gow589

My Feedback: (1)

We had a young guy here locally who fell with his foot up on a picnic table. He was surrounded by EMS guys (all his friends). He hit his head on the way down and died right there. The EMS guys he was with could not save him.

3dbob37n

One more item for all of you. AMA is reluctant to reveal too much about claims, often still in litigation at $400.00 an hour, BECAUSE this information may well get into the wrong hands as in the press or local authorities and since a great number of people feel that a bunch of grown men have no business playing with toy airplanes, we could, and have, lost flying sites.
We absolutely do not want the general public or press to know just how many accidents we have in our sport. Tragic claims are not something that we want known.

A few of our locals around here resent our sport and believe that any real man should be home watching ballgames on the TV, drinking beer and eating pretzels. Most lawyers would give an eye tooth to be able to sue us.

3dbob

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

3D, They give out the totals. I would be happy to send them to you if you want. There should be no secrets to members of the AMA. If you perform the math it is one of the safer outdoor hobby.

RC vs. fishing. I live near a large lake and just the other day they had to pull another body out. 2004 there was only 1 death reported. 5 the year before. A 80% reduction. Safer could be the word. But that is not what this is about.

Its about Dave's writing up that needs to be retracted. Maybe I need to run for VP for my area so we can move toward an open book AMA. Having secrets from our members is just wrong. This is something I will have to think about.

Crash99