I am thinking out loud hear which I know is dangerous-contemplating about not renewing my membership this next year, I got stuck alot of times on the bad thought of what has AMA done for me this year-and on the other hand-what I have done for the AMA this year-I am not seeing any benefit of paying dues year after year, some people say it is the insurance protection but I really think my homeowners and my general liability would probaly pay any occurance. I would think that my dues were there to promote modeling as a whole but so far they have supported a flying site that could be situated in Egypt because I will not be visiting, I sent a email last spring to Muncie about getting some help with a educational program for a local cub scout den and was told to contact a local AMA club-so I revamped a trainer and went to a local outlaw field with a buddy box and we had a great time. I guess I would not be able to fly at a regular club due to no AMA but I fly at the outlaw field. I guess the real question is there something really valuble about being a AMA member that I may be overlooking-thanks

I like to visit so the AMA card helps me there.
If I didn't visit like I do, then I would not want it either.
A lot depends on where you fly and how your season looks.

Well, Plane Jim, I think you said it all. You are an Outlaw.

You named some of the benefits but they don't seem to make you happy.

Unless you are an aviation person, like most of the members I know, you really don't need to belong. I think of you as a loner, not an outlaw. I've known a few of them myself and there's nothing wrong with it so don't feel guilty. You enjoy flying by yourself from your own statement and don't want to belong to a club and you are correct, your Homeowners Coverage will take care of the basic liability if you get sued.
AMA is in large part a "fellowship of aviation people" and for some reason you don't seem to feel that you are part of it. Either because you enjoy being on your own or because you simply haven't been part of aviation. Either way, there is no crime involved. But whatever you do, first examine your own feelings and do what you feel is right.
3dbob

'Atta Boy Jim. Troll 'em up. if you are serious, heck that's OK. Know som'pin Jim -Boy, I ain't gona' renew this next year myself -- no more AMA renewals -- ever again!

It's kinda funny, I think initially my main reason for joining AMA is that it was/is a requirement at the field I fly at. To be able to fly with the people I do at the field I do is benefit enough. I know plenty of people who P!SS away more than the yearly dues on a sporting event or a night out with the guys or a speeding ticket. If all I get from the AMA is the benefit of flying at the SSRCC (my field) than that's o.k. with me, because to me that is priceless.

SSRCC.ORG

I guess I've come to the conclusion that If I have to explain to someone that calls themselves a modeler why they should belong to the AMA they probably wouldn't underestand it anyway.[>:]

Plane Jim:
One thing you have missed altogether is that you wouldn't even be able to fly at that "Outlaw Field: if the AMA had not arranged with and fought with the FCC to get you clear frequencies to fly on. Do you think it's cheap to fight Uncle Sam?
Acobra

Call your insurance agent and give him a couple of examples of possible disasters. Let him tell you what is covered and what is not. You will probably be surprised.

Rich

You coulda 'splained that you don't _have_ to renew.

Me neither. My membership number starts with an "L", too.

Plane Jim -

There is a 'new' reason to maintain your AMA membership, one that a lot of folks seem to forget these days : FAA.

Right now there are at least two, and maybe more, working groups trying to formulate a plan for submission to FAA regarding the impending regulation of UAVs.

Make no mistake, FAA _will_ regulate UAVs and they will do it in the near term, which is defined as being as soon as their budget allows.

What that regulation will ultimately look like, and how little or how large an impact that regulation will have on model aviation, is about like trying to get a handle on a cloud of smoke. You can see it coming, but it's hard to tell how big it is or how much it stinks.

Lots of folks see no need to join AMA or to continue their membership because the immediate tangible benefits are to them, pretty much intangible or at most have little value.

AMA did not establish the frequencies we use today. FCC did that. What AMA did was represent model aviation to FCC with a view toward trying to preserve the hobby and to carve out a niche in the frequency spectrum allocations for our use. I think the overall effort was well worth the cost. While it may be true that we would still have some snippet of frequency allocation to use, AMA's involvement in the process certainly didn't hurt our hobby.

These days, with push-button terror levels and government paranoia running rampant, it's not a doomsday prediction to say that if FAA acts in the worst imaginable way toward model aviation, we might not be flying models outdoors at some point down the road.

No one on our side of the fence has said anything at all about FAA having the notion to ban model aviation activities, and FAA is on record as having said the same thing.

One must always remember that The Fed isn't always as astute as it should be.

FAA has expressed an intent to regulate UAVs (substitute whatever current buzz-word you like for "UAV" - the term means non-man-carrying pilot-less aircraft).

In the working groups which many of us are trying to monitor, the consensus _seems to be_ that our sort of "UAV" will not be regulated because they fall into the least onerous category of the genre. That is, our UAVs are always in sight, operate below 400' AGL (or they are supposed to, anyway), have no onboard intelligence (that the person twiddling the sticks might not be too bright is not an issue), and most importantly, do not operate over populated areas.

The UAV category FAA appears most concerned with and about are those with some degree of autonomy, weighing more than 100 pounds, and which operate in regulated airspace.

What FAA is 'worried about' are for example 1500 pound fully autonomous aircraft doing their thing at the same altitudes as commercial air carriers. FAA _really_ want to avoid the situation where B-777 pieces start raining on Los Angeles because the aircraft took a 'bird strike' from a large UAV.

So, what's this all mean to you ?

Maintaining your AMA membership is a way of trying to insure that model aviation _as you know it_, whether as an 'outlaw' or a dyed in the wool club member, actually >has< a future.

There is no other national organization whose vested interest is the preservation of model aviation.

One thing is fairly certain - your homeowners insurance company won't be setting up an FAA liason function any time soon.

Horrace and I won't be renewing our memberships because we don't have to. I'm a working slob with a decent income, and Horrace is filthy rich, so annual membership dues never were a problem for us. Further, neither of us is young enough to ever reach a break-even point on the cost of our Life Memberships. I know that even if I manage to keep my eyesight another twenty years, I _still_ would have paid less overall by renewing annually, and Horrace has a lot more grey hair than I have.

The most important aspect of my LM payment is that AMA had close to a thousand extra dollars to use as deemed necessary. The only thing I need to do now is pay attention to the goings-on in Muncie and kick and scream if I don't think "they" are spending the money I gave them wisely.

If nothing else, your membership dues are an investment in our modeling future.

PLANE JIM,
Personally I don't think anything that is written ,or will be written
here will change your mind one way or the other.

If you decide that you no longer need AMA then don't renew.
If for some reason it doesn't work out, then rejoin. It isn't like
you can't come back once you leave.

If I had a place to fly and didn't like to go to events I wouldn't
join either.

It's your call,
Roby

If your a working guy with an income house, any assets, etc., and you think your homeowner insurance is enough to cover a mishap, better check again. First of all, most home owner's policies have very limited bodiliy injury protection and should even the smallest of planes come down onto a pedestrian or fellow flyer at any speed the personal injury is likely to be high.

As a Claims Manager, I can tell you that medical costs are astronomical not to mention all of the "specials" that are lost like income, pain and suffering, and many other demands an under insured flyer is likely to face. I belong to two clubs. One that is AMA and one that isn't. In either case, I am an AMA member because I believe in what AMA does for us and the ultimate protection from losing everything you have in the event of an accident.

Some of the members of the non-AMA club I belong to feel that most of the members wouldn't seek reimbursement in the event someone injures them but I think they are just fooling themselves. If someone were faced with the inability to work due to an injury and couldn't pay their bills, I think they would look to the person who caused the injury.

Fly without AMA, no way !

emailbanter, I'm a little confused. Are you covered by AMA at the non AMA field? Or are you counting on your homeowner's there? I thought the AMA insurance only covers us at AMA sanctioned fields and events.

So long as you are flying in a safe manner proscribed by AMA's rules (i.e. so many feet from houses, roads, etc), I believe you would be covered just as you would be if you were operating on someone's property (with their permission). I do not think your coverage is exempt by flying at a non-AMA field so long as the operation of the aircraft was safe.

If anyone has a different interpretation or clause found in the AMA coverage section I would be interested in seeing it.

If some of those that gripe so much about paying the AMA dues would spend HALF as much time trying to see what they could do to improve the organization and promote the hobby as they do complaining about "what's the AMA done for me lately", they wouldnt NEED to question why they should renew. The insurance and the fact that I am required to have it at my club field are enough justification for me to renew every year. I figure that if I was destitute enough to wonder if I should spend the money to renew, I probably shouldnt be spending money on R/C planes anyway. And, by the way, if you think that your homeowner's insurance will cover you if you are out flying somewhere, you better read up on your policy a little better. Unless you are on YOUR property, it aint gonna happen!

An interesting question… whether to renew.

Most of us realize that most of the fields inhabited by the 2500 AMA chartered clubs probably would not exist without the insurance provided to the landlords by the AMA. Beyond that, I can make you a pretty good list of reasons you should belong. The personal liability insurance is secondary and of marginal value to most. The question is, are there other valid reasons to be an AMA member?

Let’s start with the magazine. Other than the financial issues, I usually don’t say much about Model Aviation. I have always felt it is one of the better reasons for the existence of the AMA. We see those that will say that there are plenty of magazines and information is easy to come by on the internet. To them, I would ask: can you get past information from RCM or Model Builder, RCAirport or TorqueRoll? With the advent of ARF’s and all that they imply, the day may come where building is truly a lost art. Model Aviation offers the promise of archives where one can look back and reconstruct those skills. At least that is the promise. In the Member’s Only Section of the AMA site appears the following statement: “Our newest addition to the Members Only section is the Model Aviation Online Archives. Here you can browse through past magazines and articles from 1975 through 2000. Please note the AMA plans to update the archives with issues published in 2001, 2002, and 2003 in the future.� The 2005 publishing year is gone and the promise remains unfulfilled.

The audited financial statements were added as in item in the same section. The most recent statement had not been posted and is several months late.

Also in the section is a list of committees, their chairpersons, and members. It has not been updated for well over a year.

There are many other items missing. i.e.: In previous EC minutes is the promise of a listing of instructors and a continuing databases of same in the Member’s Only Section. Again, a promise gone unfulfilled.

You might say, OK, the web site is not being taken care of, but it is really one item. Not so. Each of those items is the responsibility of a different individual. However… speaking of the web site, a web master has been budgeted for a couple of years, but not hired. Why?

Now let’s look at Muncie, itself, for a minute. Often we see the newer AMA members gripping about the national flying site and it’s costs. The fact is that they have no gripe coming. The land was bought and paid for, long ago, by the older (in terms of membership years, not necessarily age) AMA members. The money came from the insurance reserves. Today’s members contribute $4 or $5 of their dues to the upkeep, etc. of the site. To be fair, one must look at the HQ building and museum as separate entities. Not surprisingly, however, the EC seems to find time to keep the promises made of adding to the flying site. Isn’t it peculiar that scanning back issues of MA comes way behind the planning of a new free flight facility at Muncie?

The topic of UAV’s has been raised again. In the last year, Dave Brown had some health issues. Jay Mealy and Don Koranda did the heavy lifting with the FAA. Now Koranda is gone. What happens if Mealy is hit in a cross walk? Should it be the case that with any governmental agency, several AMA representatives should be present at the meetings? Do we really want 165,000 members with one or two persons representing them, or even to have those persons making reports to the EC that >might< be biased?

Certainly, issues involving legitimate concerns of liability at the landlord level are an exception, but, I am getting really tired of having every move the AMA makes reviewed in terms of the liability risk each action or inaction might carry. This is slightly misleading, but, what the heck (get the minutes and appendices to see why). In the appendices of the latest EC meeting, portable outhouses were a topic. I was amazed that the liability of having, or not having, spring loaded doors on outhouses was not raised. Potentially, one might whack someone on the way in or out causing injury and a lawsuit. On the other hand, if they were not be equipped with springs, there is the possibility of unwanted organisms getting in the air, causing illness thus leading to a lawsuit. Should have been good for an hour or two in executive session. They missed a real opportunity.

I would suggest to the Committee looking for a new Executive Director that a lot of time could be saved by eliminating all who are not lawyers from consideration.

This diatribe could go to an indefinite number of items. I’ll stop here.

I have, in the past, made a conscious decision not to become a Life Member of the AMA. I am sure it has cost me money not to. I choose not to in order to be able to cast a vote that counts, each and every year. I vote my wallet by either continuing my membership, or choosing not to. My yardstick measures not insurance, but the promotion of model aviation.

Call your agent. You are incorrect in your assertion that the liability portion of your homeowners is limited to your property. After you call, let us know what your agent said.

I agree with JR. "Most" homeowner policies will cover you in the event of causing property or personal injury but on a very limited basis. On the other hand, some policies have exclusions that you need to be aware of. As JR said, have your agent look over your policy and advise as to whether your hobby activities will be covered.

Just pulled out my policy and looked at it. The personal liability section states that it will cover my activities against lawsuits anywhere, so I was wrong on that point. The medical payments section, however, states that medical expenses will be paid for accidents occuring ONLY on MY property. It also states that accidents involving aircraft are excluded totally, but I am not sure what my insurance company's definition of "aircraft" includes, (dont laugh, you'd be suprised at what some insurance companies will throw in their definitions) and my agent appears to be out of town today.

Hey Low -

There should be a "definitions" section in your homeowner policy that will describe what they mean by an aircraft. If not, you can get the full policy from your agent when he returns. I am going to take a guess that the definition of what they consider an aircraft will mirror what you are doing and will make no allowance that your operation involves a minature aircraft.

I hear this from so many as a reason not to join. I would like for someone to SHOW me where they have read this. If it were true, AMA would probably lose 1/2 it's members in a heartbeat. Maybe this is a result of people thinking too much.

Fred, if I thought my non-renewal would keep Brown and his bootlickers from junketing off to FAA to represent the interests of model aviation, I'd tear up my renewal application in a heartbeat.

Abel

I am relieved now that I spent that money last year for a Life Membership-if this seems to be a silly exercise of wasting time-please re-read my post and question and then, re-read your reply-and then ask the question-was my reply courteous?, some replies were not, was reply factual or opinionated? alot of replies were not factual, was my reply helpful and if it was you are to be commended but the point I am trying to make here-is this how you would treat a person you have never met or know nothing of their own accomplishments. And if you are a true cross-cut of AMA membership why would a person want to join in organization that are so judgemental and opinionated about a question you may ask-take a good look in your own soul before looking into mine-thanks again

If you are planning on giving up flying and moving on towards other hobbies then I would by all means drop your membership. I get so sick and tired of people asking what has the AMA has done for them? I am sorry, but the AMA is not about just you! It is about all of us as a whole who enjoy the hobby of Model Aviation. I also get tired of hearing about the Insurance! The Insurance is just an extra benefit for being a member, and should not be the deciding factor why you would want to be an AMA Member.

I am an AMA Member because I love the hobby of Model Aviation, and I like the fact that there is a little museum in Muncie that is full of different Model Airplanes that represent different points in History of our hobby, and displays great acheavments within our Hobby. I like the fact that there is a national Organization looking out for the rights of Aircraft Modelers. Though everyone has ideas to share how things could be done better, the heart of the AMA is in the right place. Some people try to portray the AMA as an organization out to try an ruin the hobby! This is just plain silliness, and anyone who believes that is someone who spends to much time dreaming up conspiracy theories!

No organization is perfect or without flaws, but this goes for just about any organization, and not just the AMA. Not everyone is going to agree on every rule, or a certain position the AMA might take, but one has to realize what AMA stands for, and its not Insurance! Reds post above probally said it best! Look at JR and Hoss(sorry for using your names in same sentence)! They are on the opposite side of almost every issue, and continually bicker back and forth, but both those fellows are usually strong defenders of the AMA, and I would doubt it is just about Insurance to either one of them! It is easy to see just from reading the post above mine that some just "get it", and some just "don't get it"!

You are right cKangaroo,

The AMA is not all about insurance. It brings together people who enjoy a common love of RC Planes, whether you are a builder or flyer. When the weekend approaches, all I can think of is going out and flying with my buddies and all the fun that goes with it. There is something in this sport for everyone and you have the choice of either supporting AMA or not. It's very simple and I think they are a great organization.

Well, it won't, so don't bother brushing up on the seppuku proceedure just yet.