Variable Rate Program.
And welcome them into the club 
05-13-2006 | 05:55 PM
#27
RE: Variable Rate Program.
Geez, can you believe that? Wanting someone to crash his plane? I've seen some cold-blooded things in here, but that one crosses the line. That is far beyond what anyone should be allowed to get away with.
Moderator, I will contact you by e-mail. My request for action will be forthcoming.
Bill, AMA 4720
Moderator, I will contact you by e-mail. My request for action will be forthcoming.
Bill, AMA 4720
05-13-2006 | 08:44 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 723
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Received 0 Likes
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From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Variable Rate Program.
If I drive a Dodge Neon 4 dr 4cly non turbo then I pay X amount of insurance. If I step up to a Porche with twin turbos and the works then my insurance doubles or possibly tripples. I fly a parkflyer which costs less then 200 dollars total, weighs less then 2 lbs and might reach speeds of 65 mph. Some guy comes in with a large acrobatic Edge 540 with a twin cylinder 4 stroke on the front and when stood on its nose its tail would stand higher then 7 ft. total cost of the model = thousands, top speed over 100 mph and a weight, (Not sure on that one). Whos model should require more insurance. If both pilots are equal in ability to fly, which plane would have the higher risk of doing damage??????
Now lets go one step further, Someone comes to the field with a 20+ ft wingspan 4 gas turbine jet engine bomber look alike. You know were I am going with this don't ya. Yeap a very large model that a pilot dumb thumbed into the ground near a farm house which required the same type of investigation that is required on a full size aircraft. Big ball of smoke and fire from that one. We are talking about a model that could have possibly killed more then one person. Hmmm I wonder hwo much insurance that one should have required had it been flown inthe US at an AMA chartered club field?????
Now lets go one step further, Someone comes to the field with a 20+ ft wingspan 4 gas turbine jet engine bomber look alike. You know were I am going with this don't ya. Yeap a very large model that a pilot dumb thumbed into the ground near a farm house which required the same type of investigation that is required on a full size aircraft. Big ball of smoke and fire from that one. We are talking about a model that could have possibly killed more then one person. Hmmm I wonder hwo much insurance that one should have required had it been flown inthe US at an AMA chartered club field?????
05-13-2006 | 09:04 PM
#29
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
Hey....you can rattle on about telemarketers and XY and Z. The bottom line is we need a more fair way of getting AMA insurance. Its simple...if you got expensive RC eqipment and do compete....you should have to pay more than the part time low dollar RC flyers that just fly for fun once in a while. Also the guy that does not want cheap planes at his field....I hope you crash your big buck show off stuff. Just do not crash it when anyone is around. On second thught though...you probably have the $$$$ to get another. While the rest of us not so rich ones must help you pay for the same for AMA coverage.
Hey....you can rattle on about telemarketers and XY and Z. The bottom line is we need a more fair way of getting AMA insurance. Its simple...if you got expensive RC eqipment and do compete....you should have to pay more than the part time low dollar RC flyers that just fly for fun once in a while. Also the guy that does not want cheap planes at his field....I hope you crash your big buck show off stuff. Just do not crash it when anyone is around. On second thught though...you probably have the $$$$ to get another. While the rest of us not so rich ones must help you pay for the same for AMA coverage.
Seriously, who needs slobs with no money in this hobby? Poor people steal a lot, firstup, and secondup, they just cannot afford decent models. I mean, we really don't WANT Slowsticks, GWS Zeros, or anything of that low-buck parkflyer ilk showing up at our field. Why are we even HAVING this conversation? I mean, you cannot afford AMA, so what's your point?
05-13-2006 | 09:10 PM
#30
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder
READ THE PART THAT STARTS I WISH AMA FEE WAS 1000 DOLLARS......
Because the definition of, "Fair", is that it applies equally to all. Fair means that is something costs a dollar, then it costs everyone a dollar. When pricing is set at the person's ability to pay, It's called Socialism. When someone is forced to pay for someone who cannot pay, then that is called Communism. Are you a child, or an adult? If you are an adult, why do you want me to have to pay your way? That is what you are really asking me to do is it not? "Snivel, whine, I can't afford to fly model planes, so somebody needs to make the mean old men who have worked and saved to be able to enjoy things pay for me to get to play too". BULL PUKKY!
I will not be forced to pay for your entry into this hobby. There is no nickle beer, and there is no free lunch. Pony up. If you wants to play, you gots to pay. Simple enough. Go big, or go home. I'm tired of the missing and poaning about who can and who cannot afford to pay the AMA fees and club dues. I'll be honest. I WISH THAT THE AMA FEES WHERE $1000.00 per year, and the average club dues were $2000.00. Then we would not be bothered by the junk flyers. Am I elitest? Maybe, but I do know that when you put a low performance model airplane in close proximity with a high performance model airplane, there will be problems. Mid-air collisions will be a normal occurrance. (hey, maybe this will work out after all) You do something stupid, and we mid-air, you have to pay for my airplane. This is promising. You are out of the model airplane business, because you could only afford to buy just one, plus you have to pay for the damage to my plane, caused by your low performance flying, and I get a new plane. Works for me. Oh...You can't afford to repair or replace my plane? Why are you here?
If you can afford a set of golf clubs, does that mean that you should be able to play golf for free? or at a reduced rate, simply because you do not have the income to support the game?
Who do you think you are to dictate the cost of belonging to the AMA or a club based upon someone's income? How dare you do this? This is a hobby. This is not a life. Hobbies are by definition, expensive. This is an expensive hobby. There is great potential for loss in this hobby. If you cannot afford to lose your investment, or if you cannot afford to belong to the group that set's the policies, or makes the rules (AMA and local Clubs) then you do not belong in this hobby.
If you paid $150.00 for your park flyer, why do you think that you should not have to pay the full AMA price, or belong to a club to fly at the field? You are deriving as much fun from the hobby as is the person who has thousands of dollars tied up (no I won't insult you by using the word investment) in this hobby. Why, then, should you pay less? Get real, this is not going to happen. ever! I will not pay your way. You should be embarassed to want me to.
READ THE PART THAT STARTS I WISH AMA FEE WAS 1000 DOLLARS......
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
I have been with the AMA and will have too if I fly at AMA scantioned fields. I have many privite places to fly where I do not need it. I am just saying the AMA needs a new system of dues which should be determined by a more fair way of charging members. Why should a kid with a electric plane or a person who flies very little pay the same as the rich do for insurance that fly killer helies with big chopper blades or a guy with a Big high powered plane. You know the planes that cost $5000. dollars and up? The most fair way ...would be to pay by the value of your equipment and how much you fly and last if you compete. Just like AUTO insurance. The extra cost the AMA encounters by doing so can be tacked onto the rich RC boys that basically pay the same as us nobody,s Capt,n
I have been with the AMA and will have too if I fly at AMA scantioned fields. I have many privite places to fly where I do not need it. I am just saying the AMA needs a new system of dues which should be determined by a more fair way of charging members. Why should a kid with a electric plane or a person who flies very little pay the same as the rich do for insurance that fly killer helies with big chopper blades or a guy with a Big high powered plane. You know the planes that cost $5000. dollars and up? The most fair way ...would be to pay by the value of your equipment and how much you fly and last if you compete. Just like AUTO insurance. The extra cost the AMA encounters by doing so can be tacked onto the rich RC boys that basically pay the same as us nobody,s Capt,n
I will not be forced to pay for your entry into this hobby. There is no nickle beer, and there is no free lunch. Pony up. If you wants to play, you gots to pay. Simple enough. Go big, or go home. I'm tired of the missing and poaning about who can and who cannot afford to pay the AMA fees and club dues. I'll be honest. I WISH THAT THE AMA FEES WHERE $1000.00 per year, and the average club dues were $2000.00. Then we would not be bothered by the junk flyers. Am I elitest? Maybe, but I do know that when you put a low performance model airplane in close proximity with a high performance model airplane, there will be problems. Mid-air collisions will be a normal occurrance. (hey, maybe this will work out after all) You do something stupid, and we mid-air, you have to pay for my airplane. This is promising. You are out of the model airplane business, because you could only afford to buy just one, plus you have to pay for the damage to my plane, caused by your low performance flying, and I get a new plane. Works for me. Oh...You can't afford to repair or replace my plane? Why are you here?
If you can afford a set of golf clubs, does that mean that you should be able to play golf for free? or at a reduced rate, simply because you do not have the income to support the game?
Who do you think you are to dictate the cost of belonging to the AMA or a club based upon someone's income? How dare you do this? This is a hobby. This is not a life. Hobbies are by definition, expensive. This is an expensive hobby. There is great potential for loss in this hobby. If you cannot afford to lose your investment, or if you cannot afford to belong to the group that set's the policies, or makes the rules (AMA and local Clubs) then you do not belong in this hobby.
If you paid $150.00 for your park flyer, why do you think that you should not have to pay the full AMA price, or belong to a club to fly at the field? You are deriving as much fun from the hobby as is the person who has thousands of dollars tied up (no I won't insult you by using the word investment) in this hobby. Why, then, should you pay less? Get real, this is not going to happen. ever! I will not pay your way. You should be embarassed to want me to.
05-13-2006 | 09:14 PM
#31
My Feedback: (162)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
It appears that a few aren't going to be happy unless they get full benefits for nothing and probably reduced dues at the club level as well + a tiered system where the GS and Jet's carry most of the burden for everyone. It's not going to happen. Why don't you all just start your own insurance agency and set it up how you like it? Now would be a GREAT time to do it as it's been stated that PF's outnumber all of the rest by incredible #'s... You can set the price for PF's at $10 and GS at $100 then....
05-13-2006 | 09:17 PM
#32
RE: Variable Rate Program.
The entire point of this thread is, we are not rated on our insurance. It is not, repeat, NOT a personal liability policy. It is, rather a blanket policy. You join tha AMA, you are covered. You don't join, you are not covered. It's really simple. Don't try to complicate the issues. Every member is covered to the limit of the policy. It does not matter what you fly. You can have a thousand $100.00 models, and you are just as covered as the guy with only one $5,000.00 model. It is fair, because we are all treated the same with our insurance. If you don't want the M.A. magazine, donate to your public library, or give it to some school, or line your hamster cage with it, or you might consider reading it. There is usually some information to be found in there (in the case of some of these post's it looks as if there is a lot of information that they could learn)
I can't help but wonder if these guys are not AMA members, what business of theirs is it what we do as an association? After all, if they don't belong, they can't speak up where it counts anyway.
[8D]
I can't help but wonder if these guys are not AMA members, what business of theirs is it what we do as an association? After all, if they don't belong, they can't speak up where it counts anyway.
[8D]
05-13-2006 | 09:18 PM
#33
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: jonkoppisch
It appears that a few aren't going to be happy unless they get full benefits for nothing and probably reduced dues at the club level as well + a tiered system where the GS and Jet's carry most of the burden for everyone. It's not going to happen. Why don't you all just start your own insurance agency and set it up how you like it? Now would be a GREAT time to do it as it's been stated that PF's outnumber all of the rest by incredible #'s... You can set the price for PF's at $10 and GS at $100 then....
It appears that a few aren't going to be happy unless they get full benefits for nothing and probably reduced dues at the club level as well + a tiered system where the GS and Jet's carry most of the burden for everyone. It's not going to happen. Why don't you all just start your own insurance agency and set it up how you like it? Now would be a GREAT time to do it as it's been stated that PF's outnumber all of the rest by incredible #'s... You can set the price for PF's at $10 and GS at $100 then....
Guys who can't hack the capitalist system, that's all. Guys who could not cut the mustard, and now they want the SUCCESSFUL guys to pay for their hobby.
05-13-2006 | 09:22 PM
#34
My Feedback: (162)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
Trolls...? The bad thing is if they really are park fliers that are wanting the ama to create a program for them, they've probably turned quite a few against them from the slamming and the complaining about being fair... Once you give something a bad name it spreads quick and is very hard to repair!
05-13-2006 | 09:36 PM
#36
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: jonkoppisch
Trolls...? The bad thing is if they really are park fliers that are wanting the ama to create a program for them, they've probably turned quite a few against them from the slamming and the complaining about being fair... Once you give something a bad name it spreads quick and is very hard to repair!
Trolls...? The bad thing is if they really are park fliers that are wanting the ama to create a program for them, they've probably turned quite a few against them from the slamming and the complaining about being fair... Once you give something a bad name it spreads quick and is very hard to repair!
05-13-2006 | 09:38 PM
#37
RE: Variable Rate Program.
My point is a lot more RC fans would join the AMA if there was a fair payment plan. I am thinking maybe there is a lot of wealthy RC pilots that really do not want more to join. It would mean they may be bothered by the rest of us that would be in the way. Some clubs also use the AMA rules to discourage possible new members into their club. No wonder the AMA membership is declining. Capt,n
05-13-2006 | 09:40 PM
#38
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: Rat1
If I drive a Dodge Neon 4 dr 4cly non turbo then I pay X amount of insurance. If I step up to a Porche with twin turbos and the works then my insurance doubles or possibly tripples. I fly a parkflyer which costs less then 200 dollars total, weighs less then 2 lbs and might reach speeds of 65 mph. Some guy comes in with a large acrobatic Edge 540 with a twin cylinder 4 stroke on the front and when stood on its nose its tail would stand higher then 7 ft. total cost of the model = thousands, top speed over 100 mph and a weight, (Not sure on that one). Whos model should require more insurance. If both pilots are equal in ability to fly, which plane would have the higher risk of doing damage??????
Now lets go one step further, Someone comes to the field with a 20+ ft wingspan 4 gas turbine jet engine bomber look alike. You know were I am going with this don't ya. Yeap a very large model that a pilot dumb thumbed into the ground near a farm house which required the same type of investigation that is required on a full size aircraft. Big ball of smoke and fire from that one. We are talking about a model that could have possibly killed more then one person. Hmmm I wonder hwo much insurance that one should have required had it been flown inthe US at an AMA chartered club field?????
If I drive a Dodge Neon 4 dr 4cly non turbo then I pay X amount of insurance. If I step up to a Porche with twin turbos and the works then my insurance doubles or possibly tripples. I fly a parkflyer which costs less then 200 dollars total, weighs less then 2 lbs and might reach speeds of 65 mph. Some guy comes in with a large acrobatic Edge 540 with a twin cylinder 4 stroke on the front and when stood on its nose its tail would stand higher then 7 ft. total cost of the model = thousands, top speed over 100 mph and a weight, (Not sure on that one). Whos model should require more insurance. If both pilots are equal in ability to fly, which plane would have the higher risk of doing damage??????
Now lets go one step further, Someone comes to the field with a 20+ ft wingspan 4 gas turbine jet engine bomber look alike. You know were I am going with this don't ya. Yeap a very large model that a pilot dumb thumbed into the ground near a farm house which required the same type of investigation that is required on a full size aircraft. Big ball of smoke and fire from that one. We are talking about a model that could have possibly killed more then one person. Hmmm I wonder hwo much insurance that one should have required had it been flown inthe US at an AMA chartered club field?????
On the other hand, I will also expect that I get a commensurate amount of VOTES to go with my increased membership costs. It's only fair. If I am paying ten times as much as you, I want TEN votes on any and all issues.
05-13-2006 | 09:42 PM
#39
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
My point is a lot more RC fans would join the AMA if there was a fair payment plan. I am thinking maybe there is a lot of wealthy RC pilots that really do not want more to join. It would mean they may be bothered by the rest of us that would be in the way. Some clubs also use the AMA rules to discourage possible new members into their club. No wonder the AMA membership is declining. Capt,n
My point is a lot more RC fans would join the AMA if there was a fair payment plan. I am thinking maybe there is a lot of wealthy RC pilots that really do not want more to join. It would mean they may be bothered by the rest of us that would be in the way. Some clubs also use the AMA rules to discourage possible new members into their club. No wonder the AMA membership is declining. Capt,n
Bill, AMA 4720
05-13-2006 | 09:46 PM
#40
My Feedback: (162)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
I may be wrong but I think that you have to compare the ama insurance to liability insurance coverage, not full coverage... It covers what ever you hit but not your plane and only after all other methods are exhausted. Liability insurance alone doesn't vary as much with cars either.. but then I haven't tried just putting liability on a ferrari
05-13-2006 | 09:51 PM
#41
My Feedback: (162)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
I hope you crash your big buck show off stuff. Just do not crash it when anyone is around. On second thught though...you probably have the $$$$ to get another. While the rest of us not so rich ones must help you pay for the same for AMA coverage
I hope you crash your big buck show off stuff. Just do not crash it when anyone is around. On second thught though...you probably have the $$$$ to get another. While the rest of us not so rich ones must help you pay for the same for AMA coverage
05-13-2006 | 09:53 PM
#42
RE: Variable Rate Program.
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
05-13-2006 | 09:56 PM
#43
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
05-13-2006 | 09:56 PM
#44
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
My point is a lot more RC fans would join the AMA if there was a fair payment plan. I am thinking maybe there is a lot of wealthy RC pilots that really do not want more to join. It would mean they may be bothered by the rest of us that would be in the way. Some clubs also use the AMA rules to discourage possible new members into their club. No wonder the AMA membership is declining. Capt,n
My point is a lot more RC fans would join the AMA if there was a fair payment plan. I am thinking maybe there is a lot of wealthy RC pilots that really do not want more to join. It would mean they may be bothered by the rest of us that would be in the way. Some clubs also use the AMA rules to discourage possible new members into their club. No wonder the AMA membership is declining. Capt,n
The amount of monies that either of us has, is not relevant. The price for joining the AMA is $58.00 per year. Your local club is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $50.00 per year, with an initiation fee of around $100.00 (give or take a few bucks) Can't afford it? Tough. Life is hard (then you die) Pay up, or move on. It costs us all the same. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FAIR. IT COSTS US ALL THE SAME THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FAIR. How many times does that have to be said to you before you understand the concept. If I am forced to pay the way for someone who cannot afford to pay, then you are forcing communism on me. This is not some liberal tree hugging organization. That's an ides. You can join the Sierra Club. Dang !!! they have a membership fee as well. Tough once again, life is hard (then you die)
You want to talk about fair? Let's talk about the 1/2 A guys. They have been flying little bitty lightweight models for the last 60 or so years, and we have never heard them complain. How about the rubber power folks? Anyone heard them complaining? Didn't think so. How about the ControlLine guys? They fly on steel cables. They won't let the models get more that 70 feet away from them. Heard any beefs from them? Didn't think so either. Let's talk about the glider Boys. Nope they ain't making noise. Now along comes the electric conversion guys. Quiet too. Here's you guys with your cheap park flyers, and suddenly you have discovered a wonderful new thing called Radio Controlled flying. But....But...Holy crap!!! thid thing is expensive.
Got news for you there MAC this has always been an expensive hobby.
Bill, AMA 4720
05-13-2006 | 09:59 PM
#45
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
Bill AMA 4720
05-13-2006 | 10:00 PM
#46
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
Stickbuilder: You should be ashamed for saying...It should cost everyone $1000 to join the AMA and $2000 to join a club. If you had your wish....a lot Of RC fans would not have any chance to fly...legally in many places. The AMA and clubs that do good would suffer far more than you crashing your plane. But you say....Its easy, just glue the pieces back togeher. Capt,n
Bill AMA 4720
05-13-2006 | 10:10 PM
#47
RE: Variable Rate Program.
Well get your club together that is willing to pay that mutch. I bet you could count the members on...well... not to many fingers. Oh I hope you enjoy each other. Sooth landings there!!! Capt,n
05-13-2006 | 10:20 PM
#48
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
Well get your club together that is willing to pay that mutch. I bet you could count the members on...well... not to many fingers. Oh I hope you enjoy each other. Sooth landings there!!! Capt,n
Well get your club together that is willing to pay that mutch. I bet you could count the members on...well... not to many fingers. Oh I hope you enjoy each other. Sooth landings there!!! Capt,n
John flying Radio Controlled model airplanes is not an inalienable right that the constitution of the Untied States of America guarantees you. It is a hobby. An avocation, something you do for giggles. Maybe you should find something to do with your spare time until you can really afford to take this hobby up. Let's be serious for just a minute, then, you can go back to hating my guts. How many flyable models do you own? I mean right now, you could set them on the ground and fly them? One? Two? Three? It does not matter how many you have, because my question to you is this. If you crashed the airplane that you are going to fly tomorrow, and the crash was so severe that the model was not repairable, I mean it screwed up the receiver, and servos and everything, (even got dirt in the transmitter) Would you be able to replace everything with one of equal value by next weekend?
John if you had to answer that question with a NO, you probably have chosen the wrong hobby.
Bill, AMA 4720
05-13-2006 | 10:26 PM
#49
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 723
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Grafton,
ND
RE: Variable Rate Program.
Easy, it does not work that way. Like the US, it does not matter how many dollars you have involved, you still only get 1 vote.
As far as rich people having more at stake then others. Well that there is a false statement if you change the lost monetary value into a percentage of what the rich persons net worth is. To me a 150.00 dollar loss would be about the same as a 5000 dollar loss to someone that is worth more then myself.
As far as rich people having more at stake then others. Well that there is a false statement if you change the lost monetary value into a percentage of what the rich persons net worth is. To me a 150.00 dollar loss would be about the same as a 5000 dollar loss to someone that is worth more then myself.
05-13-2006 | 10:30 PM
#50
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Variable Rate Program.
ORIGINAL: Rat1
Easy, it does not work that way. Like the US, it does not matter how many dollars you have involved, you still only get 1 vote. If money were votes then Bill Gate and Donald Trump would be trying to vote themselves into the presidency.
Easy, it does not work that way. Like the US, it does not matter how many dollars you have involved, you still only get 1 vote. If money were votes then Bill Gate and Donald Trump would be trying to vote themselves into the presidency.
